Stretch Goals and Backer Rewards - What do you think?

[Piccolo]

I think they should add just one more stretch goal for a big final push:

 

3.5 million: An additional major city with storyline and quests, and modding tools / support.

[sesobebo]

A question regardin the MegaDungeon^TM

 

will the game keys, that can be obtained by upping the pledge by $25, $60, or even group pledges for $5000, count towards the dungeon's expansion?

 

i'd hate to start pestering my friends to get themselves CC or paypal just for this, since one would think that the extra key options were added, so people can pledge in greater numbers.

[curryinahurry]

I have a thought on a stretch goal at the 3 or 3.2 million numbers, whichever makes more sense to pay for it. A lot of people on the forums have been asking for deeper character creation and others have also been asking for origin stories or something of the sort in a prologue. The problem with the DA:O type origins for me was that they were a bit too specific, tied into sub-races, and also that they didn’t lead to any real consequences besides a few dialogue options. I’m not going to advocate for such origins. I do think another way of doing something that grounds the player and combining it with a character creation process could be a lot of fun.

 

In the initial character creation, one could pick sub-race (Human, Dwarf, God-like, etc.) and class and roll stats. Then there would be an option for situational characteristics; first economic class (high-born, merchant, low-born, agrarian, nomadic, etc.), then one could choose from a set of regions (3-5 with descriptions) where one grew up. One could then choose early occupations, training, and education, what have you. This would in turn determine a set of starting points; 3 or 4 in total depending on previous choices. High-born might grey out certain locales, as could regions, etc. These choices would give certain additional points in various skills. Finally, one could start the game and it would plunk you down into your chosen starting point in a Candlekeep or TOEE type of setting where you could run through a tutorial and some simple quests before making your way out into the world and the story. These choices could then feed back in terms of who might know the PC in certain locations and factions that might seek his/her allegiance. Plus certain side quest options.

 

This may be too much work to undertake based on time and resources (even at 3 or 3.2 million), but other games have done similar systems, and some version of this would really deepen the experience.

[Keyrock]

The game already has 9 character classes (I'm counting Barbarian & Cypher because I'm completely confident we'll meet the 2.5 million goal) and warrior (Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian, Monk) and caster (Wizard, Priest, Druid, Cypher) type classes are covered really well but there's only the Rogue to cover sneaky/utility type classes. Maybe add something along the lines of a Bard or some other rogue type class to a higher goal (2.8 million or whatever) which would round the number out to a nice 10 classes and bolster the one type of character that's least represented in the classes we already have confirmed.

[old school fool]

I just have one more suggestion to add. I'm a little concerned Obsidian is going a little off the rails with their stretch goals. An adventurer's hall is nice, I suppose, for those people who aren't fond of deep writing and character interaction, but honestly, why aren't they playing Diablo or Skyrim instead? One of the huge draws of Obsidian games is precisely the characters--their storylines, their reactions--to you and each other--the deep conversation trees. I think the devs need to own their talents and quit the overly self-effacing stuff, like, "Yeah, Veronica and Boone and Lily were what made New Vegas special, but we'll let you bypass all that awesomeness if you want and make a party of deaf-mute meat shields, lol." Forget that, own your talents, own why people love your games in the first place: Give us a stretch goal like "25% more lines for the characters," or "extended storylines for all character quests by 30%," something like that.

[Metabot]

I just have one more suggestion to add. I'm a little concerned Obsidian is going a little off the rails with their stretch goals. An adventurer's hall is nice, I suppose, for those people who aren't fond of deep writing and character interaction, but honestly, why aren't they playing Diablo or Skyrim instead? One of the huge draws of Obsidian games is precisely the characters--their storylines, their reactions--to you and each other--the deep conversation trees. I think the devs need to own their talents and quit the overly self-effacing stuff, like, "Yeah, Veronica and Boone and Lily were what made New Vegas special, but we'll let you bypass all that awesomeness if you want and make a party of deaf-mute meat shields, lol." Forget that, own your talents, own why people love your games in the first place: Give us a stretch goal like "25% more lines for the characters," or "extended storylines for all character quests by 30%," something like that.

 

Lol nice way to frame it, "those that aren't fond of deep writing and characters." Some people enjoy making their own parties from scratch while some enjoy fleshed out companions. Not only that but you can play the game once going through all the companion questlines, etc. then you can make your own custom party if you want to.

[ReyVagabond]

Next goal make Romances we know you know we want to!

[Piccolo]

I just have one more suggestion to add. I'm a little concerned Obsidian is going a little off the rails with their stretch goals. An adventurer's hall is nice, I suppose, for those people who aren't fond of deep writing and character interaction, but honestly, why aren't they playing Diablo or Skyrim instead? One of the huge draws of Obsidian games is precisely the characters--their storylines, their reactions--to you and each other--the deep conversation trees. I think the devs need to own their talents and quit the overly self-effacing stuff, like, "Yeah, Veronica and Boone and Lily were what made New Vegas special, but we'll let you bypass all that awesomeness if you want and make a party of deaf-mute meat shields, lol." Forget that, own your talents, own why people love your games in the first place: Give us a stretch goal like "25% more lines for the characters," or "extended storylines for all character quests by 30%," something like that.

Diablo and Skyrim had tactical, party-based combat like the oldschool RPGs? (real oldschool, not newer stuff like BG or PS:T) This is news to me. I was under the distinct impression they were single-character action games almost devoid of RPG elements.

 

...

 

I love the deep writing and character interaction of IE games and will almost certainly make use of the in-game companions. But I also love having the option of creating my own party members as well as it adds a whole new layer to the game, and a lot of replay value.

[ReyVagabond]

Create your own party is awesome streach goal, lests hope we get that screch done fast. But personaly ill prefer moding tools!!

Romances.

Moding tools.

[Dawn_]

Old school fool, i don't agree with you..i've played BG/Icewind Dale thousand times and as i love the characters at some point i was also loving creating my own party and their background.

 

For the next stretch i agree with the others (mod tools and romance (wasn't that included..?!)).

 

Another system of reputation that i have 20 in charisma everyone love me..(please).

I'd rather see a faction reputation system like in Planetscape Torment.

A system of craft more inclined toward customization of equpement than plans (because loot is always better than the craft and make it looks..not useful/attractive).

 

I personally don't want another companion..i'd rather see them more developped. Plus, guys we might reach 3m$ stretch goal (not more imo). So you may put it now (last week) with a super reward to make people want to increase their pledge or attract people.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Dawn_

[old school fool]

I can see how the seriously hardcore would want to replay it again with custom characters, but honestly, with New Vegas I was perfectly content going through the game with my favorite characters several times. By the time I was done with my Boone/Veronica/Lily run, I was ready for my Arcade/Cass/Raul run, and after that I was ready to have my memory refreshed with the other three again. I believe most people would prefer even deeper existing character companions with more backstory/quest content before the custom character maker. So, OK for the Adventurer's Hall stretch goal, but after the 1. deeper character, 2. additional map/expanded high-level-end game content, 3. surprise dev team addition stretch goals. IMHO, that's what the majority of fans would want. After we get those, sure, let's have the Adventurer's Hall.

[Dawn_]

Here, i can agree with you. I'd rather see more background story/quest before that.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Dawn_

[Monte Carlo]

TBH there isn't anything particularly hardcore about replaying with a custom party --- it's more about fun / trying stuff out / challenges.

 

Completing BG2 with a party of six custom-built thieves and bards, led by a cleric / thief, was a lot of fun. And a challenge. Am pretty hyped that I might be able to do that with this game too.

[Dawn_]

TBH there isn't anything particularly hardcore about replaying with a custom party --- it's more about fun / trying stuff out / challenges.

 

Completing BG2 with a party of six custom-built thieves and bards, led by a cleric / thief, was a lot of fun. And a challenge. Am pretty hyped that I might be able to do that with this game too.

 

I think we did the same thing, i remember particularly the tower guard..and the fight with the demon at the last level..Plus let's be fair BG2 didn't have a good rogue at all in it..

[crazyrabbits]

TBH there isn't anything particularly hardcore about replaying with a custom party --- it's more about fun / trying stuff out / challenges.

 

Completing BG2 with a party of six custom-built thieves and bards, led by a cleric / thief, was a lot of fun. And a challenge. Am pretty hyped that I might be able to do that with this game too.

 

I think we did the same thing, i remember particularly the tower guard..and the fight with the demon at the last level..Plus let's be fair BG2 didn't have a good rogue at all in it..

 

Yoshimo. Bounty hunter. THE rogue.

 

End of line.

[axan22]

More classes, races, companions/pets are always good, romances are a must they were really fun, more choices in character creation, but in general more regions quests dungeons or just game in general, faction rewards, maybe thives guild wizards tower etc that u can quest to join.

[Blackstream]

TBH there isn't anything particularly hardcore about replaying with a custom party --- it's more about fun / trying stuff out / challenges.

 

Completing BG2 with a party of six custom-built thieves and bards, led by a cleric / thief, was a lot of fun. And a challenge. Am pretty hyped that I might be able to do that with this game too.

 

I think we did the same thing, i remember particularly the tower guard..and the fight with the demon at the last level..Plus let's be fair BG2 didn't have a good rogue at all in it..

 

Yoshimo. Bounty hunter. THE rogue.

 

End of line.

 

People don't count him cause he dies. If you could have kept him in your party all the way through, yeah, he'd be the rogue pick no doubt.

 

 

EDIT:

Also of note, in response to a few other posts, they said awhile back in an interview or something they didn't want to make romances a stretch goal, I would assume cause romances if they included them would be built into the character's writing from the get go and wouldn't really be an extra. But I dunno. I just hope it doesn't pop as a 3 mil stretch goal and we fall short or something.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Blackstream

[Ieo]

Hi guys,

 

One of the most exciting things about working on this game is that we can do so with you guys throughout the entire process. No need to "go dark" or severely limit the kinds of topics we discuss. The funding to create this game is coming from you. You are our boss on this one, and throughout the process of this game, we want to make sure we're doing our best for you.

 

To be blunt, we obviously want to continue to raise funding for this game as much as we can. Doing that helps us do more with the game and just make it more polished and as awesome as we can for as many of the fans of this type of game as we can reach. For fans of PS:T, Baldur's Gate, and Icewind, we want to bring you that feel of game again. We can't explain how excited we are to do that.

 

I can't describe how happy I am that you're doing that...

 

To that end, we want to make sure we're giving you guys the things you'd like to see to get involved with the game. We want to know a few things about our stretch goals, and if you're willing to share your thoughts, we'd appreciate it!

 

1) Big Goals: A number of folks have suggested adding "big ass goals": Things like 3 or 4M stretch goals, but bigger in terms of scope. What kinds of things would you want to see that you think would motivate the community to invest more, and/or find more backers to get involved? (Besides mod tools or multiplayer)

 

Yay, no MP. And definitely no romances (made my point in the locked thread already). I'll add my vote for a large, populated 'metro' city with mixed population of sorts--if there's already one slated for dev, then add another, perhaps one per racial region or something. Loved Baldur's Gate, despite the annoyance of travel among the sub-areas. Sigil was nifty too, but smaller.

 

2) Backer Rewards: With respect to backer rewards (basically when we hit certain thresholds of backer counts), do you like the ever expanding mega dungeon as an incentive, and if not, do you have suggestions for things you think would encourage folks to reach out to their friends to get involved?

 

DESIGN A QUEST. This can be a general, high-level storyboarding kind of thing if particular racial/political/religious/etc. details aren't yet in place, but I've always thought that'd be neat.

 

I was going off LordCrash's list above, but those are better for backer rewards than stretch rewards (where stretch funds should go to the game), and Justin Bell convinced me not to ask for an orchestral soundtrack...

 

3) Other Stretch/Backer Feedback? Have any other feedback you think would help this be better?

 

Thanks everyone!

 

-TG

 

Honestly can't think of much else. I'm more conservative--feature creep and bloated stuff scare me in SLDC.

[Wintersong]

Also of note, in response to a few other posts, they said awhile back in an interview or something they didn't want to make romances a stretch goal

That would be an awful idea. Like offering party banter as stretch goal*! I think that those are one of those things that eIther they belong in the game, or they don't. But that's just my point of view of the "Companion Package". But if Obsidian wanted to add them as stretch goal, up to them.

 

 

* Obsidian, you better don't dare or else... I won't be able to prevent it so whatever.

[Dawn_]

People don't count him cause he dies. If you could have kept him in your party all the way through, yeah, he'd be the rogue pick no doubt.

 

Exactly..and i didn't mention him because i thought about those who might not have played BG2 on this forum (is there seriously ?!) and spoil the thing. But you were basically stuck with Imoen/Nalia or Jansen..anyway they were all multiclass rogue..

[Archmage Silver]

I'd also like to throw in my support for the modding tools in addition to my previous ideas.

[Gurkog]

I am pretty sure that they won't focus on multiplayer or modding until the next title in the series. They are focusing on creating the world and game systems this time.

[Monte Carlo]

Hey, Obsidian.

 

I have an idea for a Backer Reward.

 

I love character sheets from old RPGs. Love 'em! Why not ger Brian Menze to design a special character sheet for P:E characters (I love Brian's work around stuff like that) and we can have it as a PDF to populate with our character's stats? Then we could print it off, on fancy vellum paper or something. Maybe like an app or something new-fangled. Optional icons for weapons and armour etc.

 

I'd frame my favourite character's sheet and put it in my Geek Shrine ™.

 

And I'd pay for it, too.

 

Cheers

MC

 

I don't know how much you'd charge, but I'd certainly be up for it.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Monte Carlo

[Monte Carlo]

Oh, and while I'm at it the D3 CE had a soulstone thumb drive. I would seriously like a P:E themed thumb drive, I collect the suckas.

 

Merch, guys.... MERCH.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Monte Carlo

[Merin]

To that end, we want to make sure we're giving you guys the things you'd like to see to get involved with the game. We want to know a few things about our stretch goals, and if you're willing to share your thoughts, we'd appreciate it!

 

1) Big Goals: A number of folks have suggested adding "big ass goals": Things like 3 or 4M stretch goals, but bigger in terms of scope. What kinds of things would you want to see that you think would motivate the community to invest more, and/or find more backers to get involved? (Besides mod tools or multiplayer)

 

2) Backer Rewards: With respect to backer rewards (basically when we hit certain thresholds of backer counts), do you like the ever expanding mega dungeon as an incentive, and if not, do you have suggestions for things you think would encourage folks to reach out to their friends to get involved?

 

3) Other Stretch/Backer Feedback? Have any other feedback you think would help this be better?

 

Boy, am I late to the game.

 

1) Big Goals: Two words: Expansion, sequel. I think it is a mistake to build up this first indie project too big, and to expect sales to pay for a sequel. I think we've just about reached the top-out goal for adding content with the mega dungeon and adventurer's hall. I'd love to see paladin and bard added, but I don't actually think more companions or classes or races at this point is probably a good idea.

 

So I would strongly suggest that if the game hits $3 million you will promise an expansion, old school IE kind (Tales of the Sword Coast, Heart of Winter, Trial of the Luremaster)... but that the stretch goals between 2.6 or 2.7 be nothing until $3 million. And anyone who pitched in $25 or more (getting a copy of the game) will also get a copy of the expansion for free.

 

at $4 million, full-on sequel is added. Like Fallout 2, Icewind Dale 2, etc. Will that million between 3 and 4 pay for it? Not likely... but will 1 million plus sales of PE pay for a sequel? Magic 8 ball keeps coming up "almost certainly."

 

2) Backer Rewards: You have to watch costs, and physical items are bad after a certain point. It's probably best to now look at providing design notes, digital images of characters, and other low cost, no shipping involved, additional tiers.

 

Unless you mean "we hit X number of backers, now we add this!" For that - I don't know. It seems a weird goal to shoot for... I mean, more backers, more the word spreads, sure. But maybe it should represent what more backers would mean? If an increase in backers is what you want, the reward should support those backers I would say... those increased numbers.

 

So I would suggest something BioWare did with the BSN and Dragon Age: Origins, or what Saints Row the Third did... allow uploading of character and story to the Obsidian Forums - a new website addition for Project Eternity.

 

Something along that line would make more sense to me - larger community, a reward that represents the large community.

 

3) Other Stretch/Backer Feedback?: Well, again, I think there's a point where, despite knowing you COULD do more, that you should stop and be satisfied with getting done what you've already put on the itinerary. More stretch goals should be outside the main game at this point. Backer enticement - new reward tiers, especially ones designed just a few dollars above the glutted tiers to entice a few more bucks out of people, need to provide nice special goodies that aren't physical items that need to be shipped, but would garner people to throw a few dollars more in the pot - again, exclusive images as digital files is good, design notes, short stories (I know this stuff will still take time and effort to make, but I cannot stress how big the shipping nightmare is on back rewards!)

 

Other than that... my advice is only reveal stretch goals as the previous ones are hit (don't put big ones that are too far out there out too earlier), and create more reward tiers to draw up from the overcrowded tiers. That's the best way, IMO, to raise more money.