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Stretch Goals and Backer Rewards - What do you think?


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To that end, we want to make sure we're giving you guys the things you'd like to see to get involved with the game. We want to know a few things about our stretch goals, and if you're willing to share your thoughts, we'd appreciate it!

 

1) Big Goals: A number of folks have suggested adding "big ass goals": Things like 3 or 4M stretch goals, but bigger in terms of scope. What kinds of things would you want to see that you think would motivate the community to invest more, and/or find more backers to get involved? (Besides mod tools or multiplayer)

 

2) Backer Rewards: With respect to backer rewards (basically when we hit certain thresholds of backer counts), do you like the ever expanding mega dungeon as an incentive, and if not, do you have suggestions for things you think would encourage folks to reach out to their friends to get involved?

 

3) Other Stretch/Backer Feedback? Have any other feedback you think would help this be better?

 

Boy, am I late to the game.

 

1) Big Goals: Two words: Expansion, sequel. I think it is a mistake to build up this first indie project too big, and to expect sales to pay for a sequel. I think we've just about reached the top-out goal for adding content with the mega dungeon and adventurer's hall. I'd love to see paladin and bard added, but I don't actually think more companions or classes or races at this point is probably a good idea.

 

So I would strongly suggest that if the game hits $3 million you will promise an expansion, old school IE kind (Tales of the Sword Coast, Heart of Winter, Trial of the Luremaster)... but that the stretch goals between 2.6 or 2.7 be nothing until $3 million. And anyone who pitched in $25 or more (getting a copy of the game) will also get a copy of the expansion for free.

 

at $4 million, full-on sequel is added. Like Fallout 2, Icewind Dale 2, etc. Will that million between 3 and 4 pay for it? Not likely... but will 1 million plus sales of PE pay for a sequel? Magic 8 ball keeps coming up "almost certainly."

 

2) Backer Rewards: You have to watch costs, and physical items are bad after a certain point. It's probably best to now look at providing design notes, digital images of characters, and other low cost, no shipping involved, additional tiers.

 

Unless you mean "we hit X number of backers, now we add this!" For that - I don't know. It seems a weird goal to shoot for... I mean, more backers, more the word spreads, sure. But maybe it should represent what more backers would mean? If an increase in backers is what you want, the reward should support those backers I would say... those increased numbers.

 

So I would suggest something BioWare did with the BSN and Dragon Age: Origins, or what Saints Row the Third did... allow uploading of character and story to the Obsidian Forums - a new website addition for Project Eternity.

 

Something along that line would make more sense to me - larger community, a reward that represents the large community.

 

3) Other Stretch/Backer Feedback?: Well, again, I think there's a point where, despite knowing you COULD do more, that you should stop and be satisfied with getting done what you've already put on the itinerary. More stretch goals should be outside the main game at this point. Backer enticement - new reward tiers, especially ones designed just a few dollars above the glutted tiers to entice a few more bucks out of people, need to provide nice special goodies that aren't physical items that need to be shipped, but would garner people to throw a few dollars more in the pot - again, exclusive images as digital files is good, design notes, short stories (I know this stuff will still take time and effort to make, but I cannot stress how big the shipping nightmare is on back rewards!)

 

Other than that... my advice is only reveal stretch goals as the previous ones are hit (don't put big ones that are too far out there out too earlier), and create more reward tiers to draw up from the overcrowded tiers. That's the best way, IMO, to raise more money.

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A very astute analysis Merin. I think that a tabletop P:E gaming supplement for the OGL or Pathfinder might work: after all that is digital distribution-only if you want it.

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1) Big Goals: Two words: Expansion, sequel.

 

My only request in relation to planned sequels and expansions is that the base game must be able to stand alone on its own legs per narrative, like BG1 did. I think this is less a problem with expansions than with planned sequels/trilogies/franchises in general, though.

The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book.

Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?

PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE.

"But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger)

"Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)

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Yoshimo. Bounty hunter. THE rogue.

 

End of line.

 

People don't count him cause he dies. If you could have kept him in your party all the way through, yeah, he'd be the rogue pick no doubt.

 

Yes, Yoshimo was an enjoyable character. Hmm, I wonder what they will do with PE if the story requires that one of the companions gets killed off?

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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Obsidian really needs to put up some big stretch goals (i.e. 3, 3.5 and 4 million) ASAP. People are just not going to be motivated by these stretch goals that keep getting set 100 or 200k ahead of where the ticker is at because those goals will inevitably be met. I really think they're be bringing in more dough if they had something very tempting up for 3.5 million right now for example.

Edited by NoxNoctum
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Obsidian really needs to put up some big stretch goals (i.e. 3, 3.5 and 4 million) ASAP. People are just not going to be motivated by these stretch goals that keep getting set 100 or 200k ahead of where the ticker is at because those goals will inevitably be met. I really think they're be bringing in more dough if they had something very tempting up for 3.5 million right now for example.

Yep.

 

The goal reward wouldn't necessarily even need to be one big thing. It could simply be a number of smaller things bundled together. Although I still think something like this would make a good final stretch goal:

 

3.5 million: An additional major city with storyline and quests, and modding tools / support.

 

I know they haven't really warmed to the idea of modding support (at least not for the first Eternity game) but I really think it's something that will have a lot of people raising their pledges. Especially if it's a far off goal like 3.5 million.

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Obsidian really needs to put up some big stretch goals (i.e. 3, 3.5 and 4 million) ASAP. People are just not going to be motivated by these stretch goals that keep getting set 100 or 200k ahead of where the ticker is at because those goals will inevitably be met. I really think they're be bringing in more dough if they had something very tempting up for 3.5 million right now for example.

Yep.

 

The goal reward wouldn't necessarily even need to be one big thing. It could simply be a number of smaller things bundled together. Although I still think something like this would make a good final stretch goal:

 

3.5 million: An additional major city with storyline and quests, and modding tools / support.

 

I know they haven't really warmed to the idea of modding support (at least not for the first Eternity game) but I really think it's something that will have a lot of people raising their pledges. Especially if it's a far off goal like 3.5 million.

didn't they have questions about the engine that were delaying a decision on modding?

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I don't agree with a single big goal, unless it's there to signal something, like "for 4 millions we'll be able to give a world the size of BG2".

 

Instead they can, and should, put out several goals going up to 4 millions. This would create visibility and the eagerness to reach them.

Otherwise if they only show them in the last 2 or 3 days some people may miss them.

 

I have to say I am enjoying these 100k goals, because you can see the game grow every couple of days.

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Since you´ll probably only get a couple of thousand backers more, not tens of thousands, it´d be smart to offer more "Add-Ons" to people who already donated. These should range from a worth of $ 5 to a worth of $ 20 (or even more).

 

 

Additionally your stretch goals should expand the game across the board. You should define those enough to give people an idea of what is expecting them. For example, instead of "new region" come up ahead of time with how it´s gonna look like, I for one, want to reach the 2.5 million mark for the awesome sounding "Cipher" class. If you intrigue people, they´ll want to reach the Stretch-Goals.

 

My ideas for future stretch goals would include an Animal-focused fighter class (maybe with tranformation or summoning and a poisoner/assassin type throwing flasks and powder at enemys.

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Since you´ll probably only get a couple of thousand backers more, not tens of thousands, it´d be smart to offer more "Add-Ons" to people who already donated. These should range from a worth of $ 5 to a worth of $ 20 (or even more).

 

 

Additionally your stretch goals should expand the game across the board. You should define those enough to give people an idea of what is expecting them. For example, instead of "new region" come up ahead of time with how it´s gonna look like, I for one, want to reach the 2.5 million mark for the awesome sounding "Cipher" class. If you intrigue people, they´ll want to reach the Stretch-Goals.

 

My ideas for future stretch goals would include an Animal-focused fighter class (maybe with tranformation or summoning and a poisoner/assassin type throwing flasks and powder at enemys.

 

I would add on 10 or 15 bucks for the novella for sure. Though they might not want to do it for things already available, they might end up having more people drop from the current tier and just get pieces. So ignore me

Edited by ogrezilla
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They could always add late development stretch goals for those who want to contribute via PayPal after the Kickstarter cycle comes to an end. Possibly that could be something that can be tacked onto the main development effort, like extra dungeons, additional side quests, and more monsters and spells.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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Just a quick comment on update #16 regarding the rewards tiers: I am a bit concerned that with the addition of the hardcover books to the $250 tier, the folks who are currently in at $500 may feel a bit hard done by. Currently the only difference between the two tiers as far as I can tell is the in-game message (if I am mistaken please correct me).

 

$250 difference is quite a lot to pay for an in-game mention. I understand the folks who are in at this level are probably doing so more out of love for the cause than physical rewards, still - it would be unfortunate if some of those guys moved down to the $250 tier.

 

That's my 2 cents, I would recommend adding something to the $500 tier if a workable option can be found

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Just a quick comment on update #16 regarding the rewards tiers: I am a bit concerned that with the addition of the hardcover books to the $250 tier, the folks who are currently in at $500 may feel a bit hard done by. Currently the only difference between the two tiers as far as I can tell is the in-game message (if I am mistaken please correct me).

 

$250 difference is quite a lot to pay for an in-game mention. I understand the folks who are in at this level are probably doing so more out of love for the cause than physical rewards, still - it would be unfortunate if some of those guys moved down to the $250 tier.

 

That's my 2 cents, I would recommend adding something to the $500 tier if a workable option can be found

 

There are actually a few other differences, but I can see your point.

 

At $500, the book is signed, there's a gold VIP badge, and gold thanks in credits. I guess it depends on what is important to the individual. I thought the message was a fairly good 'peace offering' for adding the unsigned book to the $250, but that, of course, will vary person-to-person.

 

Also, it seems to have spared them two separate printings as only a hardcover is now available so no need to publish a soft-cover version - - unless I missed something.

Edited by SqueakyCat
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Just a quick comment on update #16 regarding the rewards tiers: I am a bit concerned that with the addition of the hardcover books to the $250 tier, the folks who are currently in at $500 may feel a bit hard done by. Currently the only difference between the two tiers as far as I can tell is the in-game message (if I am mistaken please correct me).

 

$250 difference is quite a lot to pay for an in-game mention. I understand the folks who are in at this level are probably doing so more out of love for the cause than physical rewards, still - it would be unfortunate if some of those guys moved down to the $250 tier.

 

That's my 2 cents, I would recommend adding something to the $500 tier if a workable option can be found

 

There are actually a few other differences, but I can see your point.

 

At $500, the book is signed, there's a gold VIP badge, and gold thanks in credits. I guess it depends on what is important to the individual. I thought the message was a fairly good 'peace offering' for adding the unsigned book to the $250, but that, of course, will vary person-to-person.

 

Yes, I imagine it's difficult to balance tier rewards against personal priorities. I bumped my backing to $140 for the beta key but have since dropped it to less than half since it's cheaper to just add the beta key afterwards. Well, people will find one they're comfortable with and hopefully can afford, anyway... Still, I may very well bump back up depending on what information, concept art (gear, races, vistas, etc. etc.), and such--including stretch goals. This particular update was very good with regard to an interesting magic system, IMO, so I'm still waffling. ;)

The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book.

Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?

PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE.

"But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger)

"Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)

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@Ieo

 

You bring up a good point. I actually moved up to the item creation level in order to add an anagram message for someone in either the lore or description of the item. Since that is now available at the next lower level without resorting to an anagram, I find myself waffling as well.

 

Whenever a change is made to any tier there will be those jumping for joy and others feeling a bit disappointed. I'll stay where I am for now, but it does add another layer to the decision making process. I'll probably wait to see what, if any, additional changes are made and decide at the last minute -- I'm sure many others will as well.

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Some higher stretch goals would be nice up to 3 million, as each goal at 100k is nice and they feel much more manageble but a larger goal may also keep people from lowering there pledges if they havent fully decided yet.

 

Plus the difference between $250 befoe and what it is now is a hard cover on the book, dont think its a mssive change to either $250 or $500 as i doubt people were paying an extra $250 just for the hard cover, $500 now also get an in game message, and this actually saves obsidian from doing both a soft and hard cover version.

Edited by axan22
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Just a quick comment on update #16 regarding the rewards tiers: I am a bit concerned that with the addition of the hardcover books to the $250 tier, the folks who are currently in at $500 may feel a bit hard done by. Currently the only difference between the two tiers as far as I can tell is the in-game message (if I am mistaken please correct me).

 

$250 difference is quite a lot to pay for an in-game mention. I understand the folks who are in at this level are probably doing so more out of love for the cause than physical rewards, still - it would be unfortunate if some of those guys moved down to the $250 tier.

 

That's my 2 cents, I would recommend adding something to the $500 tier if a workable option can be found

 

There are actually a few other differences, but I can see your point.

 

At $500, the book is signed, there's a gold VIP badge, and gold thanks in credits. I guess it depends on what is important to the individual. I thought the message was a fairly good 'peace offering' for adding the unsigned book to the $250, but that, of course, will vary person-to-person.

 

Yes, I imagine it's difficult to balance tier rewards against personal priorities. I bumped my backing to $140 for the beta key but have since dropped it to less than half since it's cheaper to just add the beta key afterwards. Well, people will find one they're comfortable with and hopefully can afford, anyway... Still, I may very well bump back up depending on what information, concept art (gear, races, vistas, etc. etc.), and such--including stretch goals. This particular update was very good with regard to an interesting magic system, IMO, so I'm still waffling. ;)

 

I suppose lots of people at the lower tiers might be tempted to move up to $250 for the hardcover books. If more people move up than down that's a net win for the project.

 

As the project overfunds more and more the "pledging to get the game made" incentive starts to lessen - especially the incentive to pledge at a high level. With no danger of the project not obtaining its funding, isn't it logical for people to pledge just enough to get the rewards they are interested in?

 

Assuming my logic is sound, there lies danger/opportunity in strengthening any particular reward tier as some people will move up and some will move down. I think that just emphasizes how important the stretch goals are - if there are attractive targets yet to be reached it may encourage backers to increase their pledges even if lower tiers already contain the rewards they would otherwise have settled for

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It's about both. You sign up because you want to help. Adding extras like item creation, signed collector's books, etc., helps enormously to raise people's pledges which, in turn, helps the project.

 

It's not all or nothing. People vary.

I agree, there's no way Obsidian would get enough pledges if they didn't offer enticing rewards. :)

Exile in Torment

 

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@Neversleep

 

It's a slippery slope, as you pointed out regarding the $250 tier.

 

There have been people asking to get the book signed instead of the collector's box at the $250 tier, which would effectively negate one of the main reasons to pledge at $500. If it becomes a 'mix and match' situation or if exclusive items to upper levels become availabe to buy retail after the Kickstarter ends, it would become a real mess.

 

Also, I'm not entirely sure how many people at a lower tier would move up to $250 for a hardcover book when a softcover book was previously available. That's a big jump from many of the tiers. I think most people have already contributed to the level they can afford and might be able to squeeze out a bit more to move up a single level, but moving several tiers up seems a bit unlikely as the jump between the levels becomes greater. 140/250/500/1000/3000/5000

 

I don't know, I guess we'll just see how it works out. Frankly, it could go really well or really bad.

Edited by SqueakyCat
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It's a slippery slope, as you pointed out regarding the $250 tier.

 

There have been people asking to get the book signed instead of the collector's box at the $250 tier, which would effectively negate one of the main reasons to pledge at $500. If it becomes a 'mix and match' situation or if exclusive items to upper levels become availabe to buy retail after the Kickstarter ends, it would become a real mess.

 

Also, I'm not entirely sure how many people at a lower tier would move up to $250 for a hardcover book when a softcover book was previously available. That's a big jump from many of the tiers. I think most people have already contributed to the level they can afford and might be able to squeeze out a bit more to move up a single level, but moving several tiers up seems a bit unlikely as the jump between the levels becomes greater. 140/250/500/1000/3000/5000

 

I don't know, I guess we'll just see how it works out. Frankly, it could go really well or really bad.

 

With the latest comments on how Obsidian is still "toying" with tiers, it honestly makes me nervous. Looking at how the tiers and add-ons are now, I wonder if they may have been better off doing half the number of tiers (digital game, box game with manual, special item/NPC/etc. design at the highest still, etc.) with everything else like books, beta key, signed stuff, swag being add-ons.

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The KS Collector's Edition does not include the Collector's Book.

Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?

PE will not have co-op/multiplayer, console, or tablet support (sources): [0] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]

Write your own romance mods because there won't be any in PE.

"But what is an evil? Is it like water or like a hedgehog or night or lumpy?" -(Digger)

"Most o' you wanderers are but a quarter moon away from lunacy at the best o' times." -Alvanhendar (Baldur's Gate 1)

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