[Merged] Gods save us another romance thread

[Malcador]

Not to start a flame war, but I'm curious -

 

how many anti-romance people are also visitors / posters on RPGCodex?

 

Yeah, that wasn't a backhanded question, heh. It's like Kjarista all over again, heh.

[Grimlorn]

you're the worst around

 

Would you say I'm the best of the worst or the worst of the worst?

I'd say you're the worst of the worst of the worst, but I'm a pretty nice guy.

[Merin]

I wasn't making a statement disqualifying anti-romance people - I was just curious to see if RPGCodex regulars were the regular anti-romance people.

I wasn't making a statement disqualifying romance people - I was just curious to see if the Bioware regulars were the regular pro-romance people.

 

Tu quoque.

 

Difference being obvious - BioWare is the developer known for including romance in their games as a staple, so fans of romance games would go there.

 

RPGCodex is... known for being anti-BioWare or anti-romance, so of course... wait, no... I thought RPGCodex was just a forum for RPG fans? Maybe even old school RPG fans?

 

I guess it kinda even fails as a tu quoque.

 

Yeah, that wasn't a backhanded question, heh. It's like Kjarista all over again, heh.

 

You are right, of course. It's all backhanded. I don't clearly say what I mean - I insinuate.

 

Thanks for clarifying for me. I sometimes get confused as to my intent.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Merin

[Tale]

Different communities have different cultures. It's hard to see the overarching elements of a community are when you're on the inside, because you're used to the subtleties and diversity. But then what value are the overarching elements for the diversity?

 

Either way, it doesn't seem valuable to try to guess where each other is from. It may hint towards what bias the other person has, but it's not really relevant for the value of their opinion or argument.

[Aremis]

For christ's sake people...

Anyway, just like how I voted for in the poll, I would like to see some romance. But I wouldn't mind it being absent from the game if it's development affected the overall quality of both the story and the gameplay negatively.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Aremis

[Tale]

That little tangent seemed to touch a nerve. Let's get back again.

[JediMB]

For whatever it's worth, I decided to withdraw my votes from this poll. I must have read them completely backwards when I voted, and as they are I think they're too biased to deserve a response.

 

As for the talk about BioWare...

Yes, I play BioWare games. I bet you can't look at my nick and guess which game of theirs drew me in originally.

 

I also play Obsidian games, Bethesda games, id Software games since 1993, Nintendo games since the 80's, and I used to play Square games... before they totally lost me partway through Final Fantasy XII. Indie games too, of course.

 

I play games of pretty much every genre out there, and I really don't see any value in limiting oneself to a specific formula. Sure, one has to weigh the advantages against the disadvantages when it comes to things like text-based or voiced dialogue, but having a preference on an issue is no reason for being dishonest about the consequences or meaning of a disliked feature. Romance does not equal sex, it's not any more of a "minigame" than any other character interaction, and it won't consume more time or resources than other forms of dialogue or events with your companions. If you don't think Obsidian's writers are capable of writing good (optional) romance arcs, just say so.

 

EDIT: And people sure have been posting things while I've gone back and forth between typing my post and doing other things on the side...

Edited September 22, 2012 by JediMB

[Auxilius]

I guess it's a good time to resume thoughts that maybe will let people relax for... oh, 6 minutes.

Pro-romance: Love is cool if it's tastefully done

Anti-romance: Love isn't cool if resources that could have been used elsewhere are required

Well, all people, just tell yourself maybe MCA, TC or GZ (I hope) will waste, 3/4 days and that will be it. Crafting a love story isn't hard if you got good characters to begin with. Basically, if Obs writers know their work (Which I believe they do), they will write something love-related once the world has been built and the NPCs has ALL been defined. It won't get in the way or anything nor will it reduce the quality of the stories and quests.

 

It's not a debate, not an anti-debate mut a "adebate". There is almost nothing to talk about.

And since my favorite romances in any video game were the Handmaiden and Visas basically because it was a result of Force Brainwashing and did a good job at showing how emotions can easily used for your own profit.

Frankly, if romances are not the end but a defining factor to a bigger theme, I'll all in.

For example: the elf who loves you have to go under awfully old and outdated religious rituals so she could be all yours, something akin to the muslim religion. Once she's done with it, she would lose all freedom and be completely yours. She's adventurous? Bah, the PC can now order her to stay at home and keep the kitchen clean if he wants so.

The PC would then have the difficult choice to do: live his love relation with the damn elf, despite the consequences, or go against his feelings and reject her so she can keep living as she want? Then, he'll meet pious people who will tell him a little more about the place of religion in their lifes, and how the values it carried on since centuries helped her to stay civilized and united against exterior threats. It's not the best example, but for something that took less than 5 seconds to think about, it will have to do.

Give zest to George Ziets on this one.

Edited September 22, 2012 by Auxilius

[mya79]

I am ok for the romance who create by Obsidian for the girl and boy but I don't want fanbase same as Bioware : with please make X bi or y gay or straight ! and supplice Bioware for

change character for fanbase.

 

I am ok for have different sexuality : straight or gay but It's not ok to impose to the dev who will be just romanceable or not !

 

And the romance is just an option for the game but an good experience for the players, I think you play a game with romance for just an option and if you don't wand you don't play.

 

And I think the problem with the romance who is no writing by good scenariste , the ncp compagnions have no personality and no charimes same as Skyrim, Skyrim is a open game but I think I don't play the romance because the dialogues are very bad and it's just for fanbase and more money !

 

After, it's just my opinion I am ok for romance but not for fanbase, sorry for my bad englis I am french ^^

[Malcador]

Yeah, that wasn't a backhanded question, heh. It's like Kjarista all over again, heh.

 

You are right, of course. It's all backhanded. I don't clearly say what I mean - I insinuate.

 

Thanks for clarifying for me. I sometimes get confused as to my intent.

 

Well, seemed pretty clear what you meant, even looking at the blurb above. Best to be blunt, it's good for the soul.

[Auxilius]

Ne t'inquiète pas pour la fanbase, on sait s'élever au-dessus de tout ça/Don't worry about the fanbase, we know how to deal with this.

 

Let's be honest, Bioware fanbase got an awful reputation and when you hang out on their forums, you kind of understand why. Thread hundred of pages long and all devoted to one character, one love story or one fan wanking, aren't helping (Talisweat.jpg). If you're worried, just read some threads here and there and make your own opinion.

[Merin]

Not to belabor this, but here's a link to what I posted there about what I'd want from DA3 - http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/371/index/14137712/18#14153607

 

And in it you'll notice not a mention of romances. From me, at least. I take it as a forgone conclusion that they'll be in the game, but I don't have any demands for them.

 

What I listed there are what I'd like BioWare to address to get back to what I want.

 

That list could work well for Project Eternity, too, except that in many ways PE is already giving me more than I could hope for from DA3.

 

Not everyone on BSN is romance-addicted. There's a pretty big backlash there about the Tali threads and such. And, well, most of us old-schoolers have been driven away, some of us are still hanging on due to inertia.

[mya79]

Je confirme je ne vais plus sur les forums bioware car si on a le malheur d'avoir une opinion différente en particulier sur un compagnon on se fait insulter et j'ai l'impression qu'ils prennent leurs romances pour leurs vrais mecs ou nanas dans la vie réelles ! ca fait peur !!

 

I am ok with the treads bioware are very strange and affraid for me !

[Monte Carlo]

Mya, I don't speak French but I totally understand. They scare the merde out of me too.

[Grimlorn]

Not to belabor this, but here's a link to what I posted there about what I'd want from DA3 - http://social.biowar...712/18#14153607

 

And in it you'll notice not a mention of romances. From me, at least. I take it as a forgone conclusion that they'll be in the game, but I don't have any demands for them.

 

What I listed there are what I'd like BioWare to address to get back to what I want.

 

That list could work well for Project Eternity, too, except that in many ways PE is already giving me more than I could hope for from DA3.

 

Not everyone on BSN is romance-addicted. There's a pretty big backlash there about the Tali threads and such. And, well, most of us old-schoolers have been driven away, some of us are still hanging on due to inertia.

Don't link to the Bioware forums. Also no one cares what you asked for in DA3. Just because you spent 1 post not talking about romance doesn't vindicate you or that community. Edited September 22, 2012 by Grimlorn

[Rink]

I think it is impossible to make good characters in a game with their own personality, their own past and secrets, wishes and hopes and letting those characters interact with each other WITHOUT including romances between them. I like flirting and romancing with Party-NPCs and I think in BG2 that was a lot of fun (romance existed paralell to main story line but most romance interactions appeared randomly and surprising and were well written, so you had kind of a cliffhanger for the next interaction and then had to wait for it)

 

As many said, the poll is very one-sided written.

I can live without romance "options" (so several NPCs that I can start a romance with and that make it impossible to have other romances), but I think romance, love and sex should be a part of this game and this also for the PC.

[TrashMan]

Regarding RPG?s...I dont' consider J-RPG's as true RPG. Not because of some "purity" nonsense, but because of the meaning of the world. Roleplay. JRPG's don't let you actually play a role, you don't get to make any important decisions (and no, swining a sword is not a decision). This might be a semantics issue, but whatever.

 

Romances are not a necessary component for a good RPG - as proven by many good RPG's without romances. Tehy are a nice addition.

[lord of flies]

I think it is impossible to make good characters in a game with their own personality, their own past and secrets, wishes and hopes and letting those characters interact with each other WITHOUT including romances between them.

They could all be aromantic asexuals. Boom. Get those valuable diversity dollars and no romances to satisfy the Codexian ****erlords. I'm a genius. Peace.

[TrashMan]

I think it is impossible to make good characters in a game with their own personality, their own past and secrets, wishes and hopes and letting those characters interact with each other WITHOUT including romances between them.

 

Why not?

There's a time and place for everything. Who sez that the PC has to boink someone in the time span of the game? Who sez he has to make a move?

Some people flirt for years before making a first move.

 

If you like a character, you can always imagien an organic foever after the game.

[Redwulf]

I believe that romance options are important to the game, but, only if it is handled maturely and not all just about "rutting." Adding romantic emotions to the characters should help flesh them out and make them feel more alive, which will help draw one into the world. The more they make the worlds characters like real people, the better, and romance is a big part of what it means to be human.

[Tauron]

defenetly no must...like they had in BG2, have flirts or something. My characters motivation is never "love" for another character, unless it is practical in some way, like those influence points and you already break the code of asskissing characters personality through dialog to earn those. Since you know their approval wil benifit you in the end. It becomes part of gamemechanics...but they stated that companions are optional and that makes me happy.

[TrashMan]

I believe that romance options are important to the game, but, only if it is handled maturely and not all just about "rutting." Adding romantic emotions to the characters should help flesh them out and make them feel more alive, which will help draw one into the world. The more they make the worlds characters like real people, the better, and romance is a big part of what it means to be human.

 

I think the question refers to the PC and his romances, not the general romances of everyone else.

Of course the characters populating the world should have their own quirks and emotions - but the quesiton is - does the PC have to specificly be romance bait?

 

I mean, what are the odds that if you travel with 5 people for a month, half of them will fall madly in love with you?

It would be interesting to have a flirting option, only to have the party NPC turn you down, hard.

[Redwulf]

I think the question refers to the PC and his romances, not the general romances of everyone else.

Of course the characters populating the world should have their own quirks and emotions - but the quesiton is - does the PC have to specificly be romance bait?

 

I mean, what are the odds that if you travel with 5 people for a month, half of them will fall madly in love with you?

It would be interesting to have a flirting option, only to have the party NPC turn you down, hard.

On that point I agree, the PC shouldn't have so many falling over him at all. And if one does it should be a slow and gradual build up, at least the actual "loving feeling" part. Unless of course the PC wears a special Armor of Pheromones +2 that makes him irresistible, and all around them insatiable. I wore such armor for some time in my youth, but, I have to tell you now, it got confusing talking to a "companion" about getting it on when the one I just got It on with a minute ago was still getting dressed! And how that armored chaffed too! Well anyways, I agree, I don't want some teenage attempt at love, nor do I want everyone to be hitting on my main character. I doubt our killer-hero will be so dashing as all that. However, I do like the thought of by the end being able to "settle down" in your abode with a certain special dwarf.

[ohmygodsquad]

As long as its done as tastefully as torment I don't mind romances, honestly. If they're anything like Bioware I'd rather not see them at all. And don't see why you guys got so up and up on the bromance or whatever. Having a loyal comrade as opposed to a lover or a partner can be pretty powerful as well.

[molarBear]

if you didn't see this:

 

 

Nick K: “Romances, are you planning on developing them in Project: Eternity as well?”

Feargus Urquhart: “Romances take a lot of effort, and I don’t want to be cagey on romances at all. We don’t want to make them a stretch goal, it’s just a question of if we feel comfortable with the funding. We have to do them right. Some people were giving us flak about, you know, the goal to get to the first companion, class, race, and things like that. They weren’t completely wrong in their criticism, but we don’t have nefarious reasons behind it. If it’s a pretty in depth companion Chris Avellone, who is a pretty quick writer, is looking at 2 or 3 months just for writing it up.”

 

**** romances!

Edited September 23, 2012 by molarBear