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This game is already a revolution


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While I don't have the money at the moment, the second I do I will be donating $140 to this game. Not for any of the cool stuff though... okay, maybe for some of the cool stuff, but for another reason.

 

This game is being funded by us, the players. The fans of Obsidian. They know what WE want, not what they think will get them the most money or will appeal to the wider audience. There's no f******g around with this game. There's no publishing, political BS. It's just us, paying Obsidian for the game WE want.

 

I'm hoping that this is the start to a new trend, a trend of developers getting funding straight from the players instead of being told what to do by their publishers, whether it be from game revenues or donations, much like this project.

 

God speed Obsidian, you have my full support.

Edited by Madcat124
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In Obsidian We Trust

Grandiose statements, cryptic warnings, blind fanboyisim and an opinion that leaves no room for argument and will never be dissuaded. Welcome to the forums, you'll go far in this place my boy, you'll go far!

 

The people who are a part of the "Fallout Community" have been refined and distilled over time into glittering gems of hatred.
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I agree. My wife and I were talking the other day about how this is likely a game changer. Finally a developer with a recognized and respected name is looking for funding directly from players and it's working. I believe that if fans heavily support this model and reject publishers and the severe restrictions they place on IP's, we could see a completely new era of interactive media. The last time we saw a range of truly creative games was way back when publishers were also not needed. When games were so small they could be made by a couple of friends absent of funding. Once games started needing full teams due to their complexity, they had to be financed, and financeer money always comes with restrictions, usually pretty extensive ones.

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Yes, it's been ages since we've had a party-based fantasy game where real tactics matter. Most modern games just seem to be about managing the mayhem, mashing the mouse button, and watching the health (and mana) bars. The isomorphic perspective also seem fine to me, both because of the table top feel and the more natural expression of terrain artistry it allows. I'm definitely looking forward to this one.

Edited by rjshae

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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I'm hoping that this is the start to a new trend, a trend of developers getting funding straight from the players instead of being told what to do by their publishers, whether it be from game revenues or donations, much like this project.

Um, not to be "That Guy"*, but didn't someone else start that trend?

Also, not to gloat**, but I've been supporting games on Kickstarter for roughly a year and a half now.

 

 

*I'm totally being That Guy

**I'm totally gloating

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I'm hoping that this is the start to a new trend, a trend of developers getting funding straight from the players instead of being told what to do by their publishers, whether it be from game revenues or donations, much like this project.

Um, not to be "That Guy"*, but didn't someone else start that trend?

Also, not to gloat**, but I've been supporting games on Kickstarter for roughly a year and a half now.

 

 

*I'm totally being That Guy

**I'm totally gloating

 

But aren't they more of an indie game company? Or did they make Psychonauts? I don't know. All I know is that Obsidian has gotten screwed over by publishers many times in the past, and now it's great to see them do this. hopefully other companies will go this route (Praying Bioware breaks away from EA). Either way, good for all the people that do this.

 

And good for you. Don't feed into the corporate bull honkey... or you can, just not much...

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The game doesn't exist as of now, so maybe just relax a tad.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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we have to wait and see if we really caused any change in the game industry. i mean, let's see how the major KS games (wasteland 2, dfa, shadowrun, project eternity and some others i cant remember now) do when they come out.

 

"the revolution will not be televisedadvertized" (i hope it will, actually :) )

"if everyone is dead then why don't i remember dying?"

—a clueless sod to a dustman

 

"if we're all alive then why don't i remember being born?"

—the dustman's response

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But aren't they more of an indie game company? Or did they make Psychonauts?

Definitely not an "indie company". Every game they've made before DFA was financed by some big publisher. They made Psychonauts, which had a budget of $11 million. They're definitely a smaller mid-range developer, but they're not "independent".

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It will be interesting to see how this type of development works out over the next few years. I would say it's too early to call it a "revolution." KS is faith-based funding. I could see that faith shaken and everything crumble with one publicized blunder.

 

So - no pressure, Obsidian, your only task is to resurrect the rosy-tinted glory days of gaming, whilst simutaneously teetering on a largely untested funding platform, and being careful not to ruin the ushering in of a new PC gaming golden age.

 

Is the game done yet?

:)

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Well, it was back in February when I posted this -

http://ingenre.com/2012/02/a-look-at-kickstarter-is-it-too-early-to-say-revolution/

and in March I added to the thoughts with this -

http://ingenre.com/2012/03/a-look-at-fully-funded-whats-next-for-wasteland-2-and-games-in-general/

and a last one of some note on this would be here, where I'm quoting Brian Fargo talking about how this IS a revolution -

http://ingenre.com/2012/03/news-round-up-all-kickstarter/

 

Kickstarter is a higher point in what I've been thinking about a change in direct to consumer marketing from creators to fans since, oh, like 1996-7 when I started to get a feel for what the world wide web was going to make possible.

 

Obsidian and Project Eternity are not the start of a revolution, but one more symptom of an already ongoing one.

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The development of both Wasteland 2 and Project Eternity could potentially be a paradigm shift in the way games are financed going forward. As mentioned the games should be now designed more for what fans want that actually funded the games, however there are few considerations

  • Once the games are released there will be some very upset fans as the developers can't put in every feature that people want. So expect some raging and comments like " thats the last time I support a KS project"
  • Publishers aren't all bad and do some good things. Like distribution, marketing and support. Also remember the days when games like BG2 used a publisher,Interplay, and the games released were still complex and entertaining
  • Finally we still need to see that the 2 listed RPG from KS are going to be financially successful when released. For me this is the most important point,until the games are released and we see how good they are we can only assume that this type of fan funding will continue. I don't believe in a real revolution until we see the revenue generated as then other developers will follow this route

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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The development of both Wasteland 2 and Project Eternity could potentially be a paradigm shift in the way games are financed going forward. As mentioned the games should be now designed more for what fans want that actually funded the games, however there are few considerations

  • Once the games are released there will be some very upset fans as the developers can't put in every feature that people want. So expect some raging and comments like " thats the last time I support a KS project"
  • Publishers aren't all bad and do some good things. Like distribution, marketing and support. Also remember the days when games like BG2 used a publisher,Interplay, and the games released were still complex and entertaining
  • Finally we still need to see that the 2 listed RPG from KS are going to be financially successful when released. For me this is the most important point,until the games are released and we see how good they are we can only assume that this type of fan funding will continue. I don't believe in a real revolution until we see the revenue generated as then other developers will follow this route

 

Since they're financing the game essentially through non-refundable preorders, rather than using their own money, wouldn't anything they make once the game is out be pure profit?

The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.

Devastatorsig.jpg

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I would say Minecraft was, by a hair, the most truly remarkable revolution of the last couple years. For a few reasons

 

1) Sold directly to fans without a publisher functioning as middle-man.

2) Very close interaction with the community on design and coding.

3) Seed funding provided by purchase of access to Alpha version with promise of access to final version.

4) Core functionality contributed to the project by community members (making SMP functional, Bukkit)

 

Double-Fine Adventure and Project Infinity are crucially important, as they demonstrate how games requiring fairly costly, time-intensive art assets can be pursued without the need for publisher seed funding.

 

However, Minecraft set an extremely high bar, as far as community engagement goes. All three of the projects mentioned were effectively fan-funded. But while Minecraft had an easier road in certain respects, due to its limited art assets, it was the more revolutionary, I feel, for the extent to which it was a project which tens of thousands of fans so closely engaged with, in an alpha phase where every player had reason to consider what within it needed fixing, and what they themselves could do (via mod projects and server tweaks, mainly) to hack the game a little closer to a release state.

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Since they're financing the game essentially through non-refundable preorders, rather than using their own money, wouldn't anything they make once the game is out be pure profit?

 

People still have to buy the game afterwards. And in enough number, to encourage other projects.

 

If Wasteland and PE fail to bring in the monies, the interest in this sort of stuff will dry up pretty quickly.

cylon_basestar_eye.gif
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This is a little bit like book publishing, which is currently trying to manage the digital Tsunami that hit music almost ten years ago.

 

As technology develops I think there will be a middle tier of gaming, kind of 'Indie Plus' studios that manage to consistently produce smaller but profitable titles direct to the customer without the publisher.

 

However... in writing, a really ,really good Amazon / digital sales rating will likely get you snapped up by a publisher. For a writer that is still a big draw for the obvious reasons: marketing and distribution. Physical sales are still very important in books as they are in games.

 

This will change, as it has in music. It will be interesting to see how the publishers play it, if they have any sense they will create proper, more autonomous sub-divisions and try to hoover up the Indie Plus guys (this happens in book publishing).

sonsofgygax.JPG

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Since they're financing the game essentially through non-refundable preorders, rather than using their own money, wouldn't anything they make once the game is out be pure profit?

 

People still have to buy the game afterwards. And in enough number, to encourage other projects.

 

If Wasteland and PE fail to bring in the monies, the interest in this sort of stuff will dry up pretty quickly.

 

Yes in essence what Bos says. Normally software projects work on a standard Opex and Capex cost model

 

The KS fund raising is what they have estimated is needed to create the game over the next 24 months. This includes (and there could be other expenses or some that don't apply in this case)

  • Salaries for the developers
  • Cost of hardware and software to develop the game. this includes required backup
  • Maintenance of the h\ware and software
  • Overtime budgeting
  • Marketing costs
  • Distribution Costs
  • Rent of building

Now the game is finished and only sells 10,000 copies . This is obviously the money that Obsidian makes minus there Opex costs For example I imagine they will have ongoing support and patches that need to be written so salaries still need to be paid. So end of the day if enough copies don't get sold I can't imagine Obsidian doing this again. End of the day they want to create there own RPG for themselves and fans but if they don't make money from it why would anyone seriously want to spend 2 years doing it again?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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