Mass Effect 3

[Guest Slinky]

"Can't wait what stupid crap EA's/Bioware's marketing department comes up this time."

 

How is your ME3 preorder coming?

Umm.. I guess badly since I haven't preordered it? Thanks for asking!

[HoonDing]

Can't wait what stupid crap EA's/Bioware's marketing department comes up this time.

They should try to contain themselves and stick to the body-painted Asari, imo.

[RPGmasterBoo]

I'm sick of the cro-magnon marine type characters/protagonists in games, like the dude in the teaser.

 

Why is every soldier a ****ing crew cut,room temp IQ - GI Joe. Hasn't anyone watched Firefly? Is wit a deadly sin or what? Is more than an inch of hair subject to capital punishment?

Edited April 1, 2011 by RPGmasterBoo

[Malcador]

I think this should have been BioWares ME3 teaser trailer.

 

Eh, why ?

[Slowtrain]

Is wit a deadly sin or what?

 

 

Nope. It just requirs a lot more skill in

 

a) writing

b) voice acting

 

easier to take the jutting-browed cro-magnon route.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Hasn't anyone watched Firefly?

 

Funny because practically everything written by Bioware since KOTOR has been more or less trying to knock off Joss Whedon's writing.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Hasn't anyone watched Firefly?

 

Funny because practically everything written by Bioware since KOTOR has been more or less trying to knock off Joss Whedon's writing.

 

Firefly was good (to about halfway) because it never took itself too seriously. The wit and fun was of more important than the plot. Its when it started to to go emo/melo drama + wit that it fell apart.

 

You could say that Bioware writing resembles latter Firefly with its overwhelming attention to badly crafted drama.

Edited April 1, 2011 by RPGmasterBoo

[Niten_Ryu]

Joss Whedon shows get cancelled rather quickly, thus it's odd that Mr Gaider want to copy his work. Especially now when Bioware tries to move more mainstream audience. I'd argue that Sarah Michelle Gellar carried Buffy the Vampire Slayer (as well as vampire theme, that is interestingly enough even more popular nowadays) more then actual writing of the show. But then again I'm not a fan and haven't seen all the episodes. Angel and Dollhouse (the few episodes that I saw) were pure garbage, first few Firefly episodes were ok.

 

Summer Glau (as "actress") might kill more shows then Whedon but I'd rather see Bioware (or any game writers) aim bit higher then this. Btw, those who know more about Joss Whedons work - is Mass Effects writing really similar? To me Drew Karpyshyns work feel different.

[Azdeus]

I think this should have been BioWares ME3 teaser trailer.

 

I don't know where exactly I remember this from, but I think it was Kaidan Alenko's dialogues. He said that his family had some realestate on the coast wich turned into waterfront property due to global warming or something of that caliber.

 

I wonder if Bioware will remember such details if they let you touch down on Earth.

[entrerix]

Joss Whedon shows get cancelled rather quickly, thus it's odd that Mr Gaider want to copy his work. Especially now when Bioware tries to move more mainstream audience. I'd argue that Sarah Michelle Gellar carried Buffy the Vampire Slayer (as well as vampire theme, that is interestingly enough even more popular nowadays) more then actual writing of the show. But then again I'm not a fan and haven't seen all the episodes. Angel and Dollhouse (the few episodes that I saw) were pure garbage, first few Firefly episodes were ok.

 

Summer Glau (as "actress") might kill more shows then Whedon but I'd rather see Bioware (or any game writers) aim bit higher then this. Btw, those who know more about Joss Whedons work - is Mass Effects writing really similar? To me Drew Karpyshyns work feel different.

 

 

i've seen every joss whedon episode of anything except i skipped dollhouse.

 

 

buffy seasons 2,3,5, are great, 1 and 6 are ok, 7 is garbage

 

firefly is ranged between ok and great during its one season.

 

angel mostly sucked.

 

bioware writing is on par with the worst episodes of a joss whedon show. but not as corny. thats right, a bad whedon episode is CORNIER than anything in mass effect, except for thane's backstory (those idiotic memory lapses win the cornycarnival in my book)

[Spider]

Joss Whedon shows get cancelled rather quickly

 

Say what? Buffy ran for 7 seasons, Angel for five. Dollhouse got two. Firefly was the only one that was really cancelled quickly, and even that got a movie afterwards.

[Orogun01]

bioware writing is on par with the worst episodes of a joss whedon show. but not as corny. thats right, a bad whedon episode is CORNIER than anything in mass effect, except for thane's backstory (those idiotic memory lapses win the cornycarnival in my book)

I agree, although I haven't seen BW to do anything on par with Joss Whedon. They obviously try but their characters aren't compelling enough, the twist aren't shocking enough, the plot's structure isn't really there. They are basically a bad "cover band" of Joss Whedon made up of fat teenagers now in their mid 40's.

[Tale]

Are we talking plots or writing in general? Writing in general, I simply see no relation. I don't recall many episodes of Buffy that featured 5-10 minute one-sided conversations where a guy gives their tragic backstory.

 

I don't mean that as a slight against Bioware. Games that try to be narrative heavy aren't even up to TV standards in general. They occasionally go for the creature of the week plot style (hello, RPGs) where a bunch of completely irrelevant plots interrupt an arc to pad for length, but that's not shooting for the ideals of the medium.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Tale

[Jaesun]

They also only have 20+ hours to develop a character, as opposed to 5 - 7 years....

[Tale]

If you can't develop a character in the time you have, get rid of them. It's not an excuse for bad writing. The first season of Buffy was only 9 hours of runtime.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Tale

[Calax]

Thing is that most of the time the characters have to be generic enough to fit into most any situation. AND they have a variable amount of screen time based on the individual player (In ME here). So you can't have them all spouting off 3 minute speeches about their motivations at critical points that effect them in the plot because you don't know when they'll be there.

 

I mean ME2 was basically a character moment for each of your supporting cast with four other missions. If they decided that your game was only going to have three characteres for the entire thing (Say, Legion and Jack) they could have a lot more to play with, but as it is they have to make each character (effectively) modular.

 

Comparing this to Final Fantasy, where you have set characters and the entire crew travels as a party, and you see a significant difference in the level of character developments.

[Tale]

If they're giving a speech about their motivational backstory at any point, they're probably doing it wrong to begin with. It's not an issue of spreading it out more. If a character struggles to seem real without me knowing about their abusive father, they'll probably struggle with it after, only now I'll hate them for making me hear about their father. I didn't really need to know that Jacob hates red tape. I got that from Garrus. And that was the point of the Spectres. It's time to move on. I can believe it in new characters without having it being explicitly stated. I can make inferences based on reactions to events. Aveline's a pretty good example of the writing being done a lot better.

 

If they're not present to react to an event, I probably don't care about them enough for them to need to develop for me.

 

All you're doing is describing ME2. I think we all played it. We know what they did. But the narratives of a game should tie together. They should make a bow.

Edited April 3, 2011 by Tale

[Orogun01]

If you can't develop a character in the time you have, get rid of them. It's not an excuse for bad writing. The first season of Buffy was only 9 hours of runtime.

This post just gave me the awesomest idea for a video game. A reality video game, as gamers play through each week the plot is being developed and they get the chance to vote off their least favorite characters. It will either be the greatest game ever of the biggest piece of crap on the face of the earth (AKA the Jersey Shore game)

 

@Tale: I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said.

 

 

@Calax: There is no reason as to why every character should be generic other than poor writing. Specially since the best characters in ME were the non-generic ones, or at least the ones further away from the archetype. In screenplay writing they take as short as one scene to establish character, using an event or their appearance to tell the viewer "this guy is..."

and get that out of the way to get on with the plot. The difference with the tv is that you have a longer time to establish and redefine your character, the guy who started as the lovable nerd may end up as the psychotic villain by the 4 season.

 

Here is a BW redefinition, the tortured elf with lyrium branded into his skin that is trying to escape his master turns into the tortured gay elf that is trying to escape his master. Seriously is like there don't even try with some of this characters, but what's it's worse is that they make their freaking storylines character-centric when and create these cookie cut outs of archetypes. Whatever happened to BW actually writing stuff, cool characters like hk-47.

[Calax]

The point I was trying to make was that in an RPG the character development will either happen at a hub (like they did in ME) or almost not at all. If they try to integrate the development of secondary characters into the primary storyline they're gonna have interesting times when that character was not carted along for the ride.

 

Meanwhile TV series can have entire episodes dedicated to expanding upon a line of dialogue from a previous episode that was centered around somebody who is entirely different and that they only showed up for 30 seconds in, because the director and staff have complete control over who appears in the situation.

[Hassat Hunter]

You can easily force characters (Kreia on Onderon in KOTOR2, Jolee in Kashyyyk in KOTOR1, all teammissions in ME2 and DA:O).

[Volourn]

" Whatever happened to BW actually writing stuff, cool characters like hk-47. "

 

HK is funny but he's absolutely one note. Not a good example, sorry.

[Orogun01]

The point I was trying to make was that in an RPG the character development will either happen at a hub (like they did in ME) or almost not at all. If they try to integrate the development of secondary characters into the primary storyline they're gonna have interesting times when that character was not carted along for the ride.

 

Meanwhile TV series can have entire episodes dedicated to expanding upon a line of dialogue from a previous episode that was centered around somebody who is entirely different and that they only showed up for 30 seconds in, because the director and staff have complete control over who appears in the situation.

You forgot to mention the mandatory companion quest. That's exactly the problem, one on one moments are special because they don't happen often due to the plot taking precedence over the characters. Most often than not you are dealing with groups of people, or interactions based on the main storyline (two characters discussing what to do) BW takes deepness to such a superficial level that it ruins every suspension of disbelief.

Good examples of such is Aveline/Isabela during Aveline companion's quest. Right at the beginning Hawke gets sidelined by the interactions between these two characters, not only does it make it more plausible (since the world hardly revolves around a single person) but it establishes those characters without any interaction with the player but at the same time it includes him/her. Yet instead of advancing the main storyline through the characters or the characters through the sidequests, they separate a portion of the story to be dedicated just to them. They come pre-packaged with their own adventure and possible sex scene which diverts from the main storyline, which when you have 8 companions takes away from whatever the hell you where supposed to be doing in the first place.

 

"Shepard: (thinking) Didn't we had a galaxy to save or something? Nah i'm probably imagining it, now let's go teach Grunt about the birds and the bees"

[Nepenthe]

Whatever happened to BW actually writing stuff, cool characters like hk-47.

Nostalgia.

[Orogun01]

Whatever happened to BW actually writing stuff, cool characters like hk-47.

Nostalgia.

Nostalgia aside, the great 3 BW at that time. NWN, KOTOR, BG2.

Which is basically what got them the public's attention; the writing from that time was very different or maybe it was the format.

[Volourn]

The writing quality was the same.