Dragon Age 2

[Orogun01]

Also, if the game looks like the way it does at release, including environments and new enemy designs, I just don't understand what Bioware is doing.

God, I hope not. That whole pre-alpha look is not even fit for a dreamcast game.

[Oblarg]

It would be really hard to make DA:O worse.

 

I'm an oddity. I actually prefer Origins to either ME games.

 

I tried twice to play through it. Lost interest when I reached the endgame the first time, lost interest halfway through the midgame the second.

 

The level design was simply too grating and the story and dialogue didn't make up for it. The atmosphere was decent but by no means fantastic.

[Tale]

It would be really hard to make DA:O worse.

 

I'm an oddity. I actually prefer Origins to either ME games.

Not that odd, I do as well. In fact, I HATE ME. ME2's good, but 1 I hate.

 

Dragon Age: Origins made me like Bioware again. I hesitated to even get it, but Claudia Black...

[GhostofAnakin]

I tried twice to play through it. Lost interest when I reached the endgame the first time, lost interest halfway through the midgame the second.

 

The level design was simply too grating and the story and dialogue didn't make up for it. The atmosphere was decent but by no means fantastic.

 

The bolded part is pretty much my attitude toward 99% of games, even ones I like.

 

I like playing for the story, first and foremost. So when it's basically just me fighting waves of enemies until the final boss battle with the story portion pretty much concluded (other than an epilogue after I beat the final boss), I lose interest.

[Oblarg]

I tried twice to play through it. Lost interest when I reached the endgame the first time, lost interest halfway through the midgame the second.

 

The level design was simply too grating and the story and dialogue didn't make up for it. The atmosphere was decent but by no means fantastic.

 

The bolded part is pretty much my attitude toward 99% of games, even ones I like.

 

I like playing for the story, first and foremost. So when it's basically just me fighting waves of enemies until the final boss battle with the story portion pretty much concluded (other than an epilogue after I beat the final boss), I lose interest.

 

Except in a good game the endgame is gripping and makes you want to see the conclusion.

 

The endgame of DA:O just made me want to go to sleep.

[sorophx]

hmmm, actually, in DA:O I only used the top-down view a couple of times - in some fights involving kiting and when killing Flemeth. everything else was so easy I didn't even have to switch characters (I only wiped once to that other dragon on the top of the mountain, still don't think there's a fair way to beat it). and since I spent most of the time running around looking for shimmering portions of ground, using the close-up camera made more sense. they can remove the top-down anytime, but they better do the same to my party. because DA:O only had small bits of tactical combat, and even the inventory is shared, so we don't get to use them as mules. I say make DA2 an action/stealth game like Alpha Protocol. this is obviously what they'll do to DA3, so why wait 'til then?

[Meshugger]

Considering the rumors of removing features, what is going to be added in DA2, gameplay-wise?

 

actually, am not too concerned on the gameplay improvements. for instance, reducing the number o' spells and allowing for modified spells is sounding like a good thing... particularly as we recommended doing such many years ago when da were still in early development. there will, no doubt, be many gameplay improvements both noticeable and hidden. sometimes a significant gameplay improvement needs only be an alteration o' behind-the-scenes numbers crunching. if bio has a fault regarding gameplay improvements it is that they typically tries too hard to improve that which needs not be improved. bio's attempts to streamline ME2 character generation and development choices along with their desire to infuse more of a shooter "feel" to the game were improvements we coulda' done without.

 

Gromnir enjoys cooking. one o' the most useful skills in cooking is the ability to do nothing. so often the desire to add salt, stir pot, and/or peek in oven will only serve to futz up foods that not otherwise need futzing. biowarians developers needs to better learn when Not to stir the pot.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I do not mind some of the changes like the ones you mentioned + rogues being more ninja and less warrior in terms of combat. But i do not understand why they have to remove things like dialogue-text in favour for dialogue-wheel.

 

If were going to use the soup analogy, then it is like they are changing some of the spices, but also removing ingredients to boot. Our tomato-soup that was previously served in a nice saucer and eaten with a spoon made out of stainless steel, has now changed by tinkering with the amount of pepper, removed the oregano in favour of basil, changed the saucer to a plastic cup and the spoon is replaced by a straw. It is easier to pickup and eat, and the taste is more concentrated and direct, but why? The previous recipe worked pretty well. In fact, it was an all-time seller. So why change the very foundation of it?

Edited August 5, 2010 by Meshugger

[Meshugger]

I mean, the problems with Dragon Age was more about the tomato being cooked for too long, the pepper being to bland, and it had too much oregano for most people. By changing the time to cook it, getting a better flavour of pepper and lessen the amount of oregano would be awesome. But now we are sitting and drinking it like milkshake when it really isn't. I see no point in that.

[WorstUsernameEver]

I mean, the problems with Dragon Age was more about the tomato being cooked for too long, the pepper being to bland, and it had too much oregano for most people. By changing the time to cook it, getting a better flavour of pepper and lessen the amount of oregano would be awesome. But now we are sitting and drinking it like milkshake when it really isn't. I see no point in that.

 

... metaphors going too far.

[Meshugger]

Nah, i haven't even been near Godwin's Law yet.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Nah, i haven't even been near Godwin's Law yet.

 

I mean, the problems with Dragon Age was more about the tomato being cooked for too long, the pepper being to bland, and it had too much Hitler!!!1ONE!! for most people.

 

There you have it.

[Gromnir]

"I do not mind some of the changes like the ones you mentioned + rogues being more ninja and less warrior in terms of combat. But i do not understand why they have to remove things like dialogue-text in favour for dialogue-wheel. "

 

many of the so-called improvements and features of da2 is little more than resource saving devices. dialogue-wheels, human-only pc, and the unreliable narrator is nothing more than poorly camouflaged means by which the developers intend to reduce their workload. and if the 10-year arc is resulting in restrictive hubs as mc suggests, then you should add another Feature to the fraudulent resource-saver list. honestly we got nothing 'gainst bio trying to save time and resources, but their hyperbolic sales pitch by which they attempt to convince us that theses resource savers is Kewl New Features is insulting and unnecessary.

 

and the easiest way to fix the rogue is to get rid of it. give warriors and wizards free access to thiefy skills and talents solves all problems. in early development the fans and developers got fixated on the notion o' having a minimum o' three base classes. the rationale for the Magical Triumvirate were as elusive to us then as it is now. perhaps biowarian attempts to match fan desires resulted in unnecessary class bloat? regardless, kill rogue = win.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

btw, we understand why bio would seek to fool peoples into believing that their resource savers are kewl features, but Gromnir is more than a little disappointed by fans and game journalists who make it easy for the biowarians to peddle their snake oil.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Gromnir

[sorophx]

kill rogue = win.

 

they should just kill the whole classes thing, make the character able to learn both combat skills and magic, restricting access to some branches depending on choices made by the player. like in Diablo or something (or like custom classes in Morrowind even), will save them even more time and me - the frustration

[Meshugger]

"I do not mind some of the changes like the ones you mentioned + rogues being more ninja and less warrior in terms of combat. But i do not understand why they have to remove things like dialogue-text in favour for dialogue-wheel. "

 

many of the so-called improvements and features of da2 is little more than resource saving devices. dialogue-wheels, human-only pc, and the unreliable narrator is nothing more than poorly camouflaged means by which the developers intend to reduce their workload. and if the 10-year arc is resulting in restrictive hubs as mc suggests, then you should add another Feature to the fraudulent resource-saver list. honestly we got nothing 'gainst bio trying to save time and resources, but their hyperbolic sales pitch by which they attempt to convince us that theses resource savers is Kewl New Features is insulting and unnecessary.

 

and the easiest way to fix the rogue is to get rid of it. give warriors and wizards free access to thiefy skills and talents solves all problems. in early development the fans and developers got fixated on the notion o' having a minimum o' three base classes. the rationale for the Magical Triumvirate were as elusive to us then as it is now. perhaps biowarian attempts to match fan desires resulted in unnecessary class bloat? regardless, kill rogue = win.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

btw, we understand why bio would seek to fool peoples into believing that their resource savers are kewl features, but Gromnir is more than a little disappointed by fans and game journalists who make it easy for the biowarians to peddle their snake oil.

 

I hear you, but why cut so much costs when the formula they used before proved to be the most successful yet? Shareholder demand? Laziness?

[WorstUsernameEver]

I hear you, but why cut so much costs when the formula they used before proved to be the most successful yet? Shareholder demand? Laziness?

 

The other game took 7 years to be made (which translates in a gigatastical budget). This one is going to be published in march, next year.

It will probably be just as successful.

....

Draw your conclusions.

[Gromnir]

kill rogue = win.

 

they should just kill the whole classes thing, make the character able to learn both combat skills and magic, restricting access to some branches depending on choices made by the player. like in Diablo or something (or like custom classes in Morrowind even), will save them even more time and me - the frustration

 

as far as bio were concerned, a classless system weren't an option. they decided from the start to have classes. am personally not a fan o' classes, but there is some advantages from a developer pov to be using classes. also, given how poorly bio balanced skills, talents and classes in da:o, am dubious that removal o' classes altogether would help matters.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Meshugger]

I hear you, but why cut so much costs when the formula they used before proved to be the most successful yet? Shareholder demand? Laziness?

 

The other game took 7 years to be made (which translates in a gigatastical budget). This one is going to be published in march, next year.

It will probably be just as successful.

....

Draw your conclusions.

 

Somehow, i do not think that the end result of DA was the product of 7 years of development. I bet that the project started from scratch a couple of times. I would even guess that the latest iteration took probably 2-3 years to do.

[sorophx]

they try too much to stick to the canon fantasy crpg, sacrificing originality again and again only to fail to provide the fantasy crpg players actually wanted to see. I hope this AD&D curse will be lifted by the time they're working on their next fantasy game...

[Gromnir]

I hear you, but why cut so much costs when the formula they used before proved to be the most successful yet? Shareholder demand? Laziness?

 

The other game took 7 years to be made (which translates in a gigatastical budget). This one is going to be published in march, next year.

It will probably be just as successful.

....

Draw your conclusions.

 

well, to be fair, some considerable 'mount o' that +5 year development went towards building their engine(s). is not as if they gotta start from scratch with a new engine.

 

in any event, da:o were a financial winner for ea based on all/any reported accounts. the gaming industry produces far more losers than winners, and ea has published their fair share o' losers. we suspect that the accelerated release for da2 is resulting from an unfortunate desire on the part o' ea to squeeze as many shekels out of the da franchise as quickly as possible. interplay did similar with iwd, and we ended up with iwd:how as the result.

 

if ea demands a q1 2011 release for da2, then bioware has the unpleasant task of trying to figure out a way to develop da2 in an extreme short period o' time. cut til it hurts. does it make sense to mess with a winning formula given how few winners the gaming industry produces? no, but am suspecting that ea is quite willing to gamble on the success o' a streamlined da2.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited August 5, 2010 by Gromnir

[Wrath of Dagon]

I think this is the best summary of DAO I've ever seen:

Dragon Age: Origins is arguably the most hackneyed RPG in the history of the genre. The plot is a creatively bankrupt mishmash of a hundred cheap fantasy novels, all churned into a flavorless paste.

 

GameRankings score: 90%

 

What it actually deserves: 65%

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/202393/most...ideo_games.html

[Slowtrain]

I think this is the best summary of DAO I've ever seen:

Dragon Age: Origins is arguably the most hackneyed RPG in the history of the genre. The plot is a creatively bankrupt mishmash of a hundred cheap fantasy novels, all churned into a flavorless paste.

 

GameRankings score: 90%

 

What it actually deserves: 65%

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/202393/most...ideo_games.html

 

 

Hype rules the day though--the latest is always the greatest, until it is no longer the latest. Just gotta take it all with a grain of salt and roll your eyes when appropriate.

[Starwars]

I'd say that little "article" would've been apt for any Bioware game *except* for Dragon Age and possibly the Baldurs Gates (good games but rather overrated still).

[HoonDing]

BioWare probably holds the record for most "best games of all time".

[Volourn]

"given how poorly bio balanced skills, talents and classes in da:o,"

 

DA's skills, talenst,a ndc lasses are as 'well balanced' as pretty much every other RPG out there.

 

 

"I think this is the best summary of DAO I've ever seen: "

 

It's as poorly done and so obviously as garbagey as the silly fanboy type reviews. 'what it actually deserves' is such a silly phrase that only a loser punk would use it in a review.

[aries101]

I'm still cautiously optimistic about this game, DA2. There will still be three classes, it seems. Rogues seem to be more ninja-like this time around. Warriors will be be more warrior-like and mage's will be more mage-like. Great idea, I find. I also like that the races will be more distinctive from one another.

 

I'm very fond of the unreliable storytellers that tell the game...but that's maybe because I'm a teacher?

 

As for the combat, I'd wait for the trailer to be released...that combat trailer that is. As for the top down view, I find it to be horribly broken, especially since one of the design guys had the great idea to make a big 'pause' sign right in the middle of the screen. As for top down view for CRPGs, both Morrowind, Mass Effect and Oblivion as well as some other games did away with the top down view. It didn't hurt them much. The Witcher did it, too, I think?

 

 

I had a lot of worries about the first Dragon Age game with its ancient evil, its secret organization, its gather an army setup. And then it turned out to be about the story of not only you (as the warden) but also of how other people react to you, and how they're reacting faced with danger.

 

 

In this game, there won't be any ancient evil, no secret organization, and such things. The game will be about how Hawke risis to power.... e.g. a common man who will be the Champion of Kirkwall....to whom, though?