Mass Effect 2 Discussion

[Chrisimo]

a bit of a misrepresentation, no? some powers you list is unlockable late in game, and some is only available on a subsequent playthrough. the average player with no meta-knowledge of game does not have such a robust list to choose from.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

You can unlock every special power of your squadmates as soon as you get their loyalty. At least I could. And on my first playthrough, too. I had like 6 or 7 powers in the end, IIRC. True you don't see them from the start but if you make any upgrades at all (which is true for most players I guess) you will see them.

[Gromnir]

a bit of a misrepresentation, no? some powers you list is unlockable late in game, and some is only available on a subsequent playthrough. the average player with no meta-knowledge of game does not have such a robust list to choose from.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

You can unlock every special power of your squadmates as soon as you get their loyalty. At least I could. And on my first playthrough, too. I had like 6 or 7 powers in the end, IIRC. True you don't see them from the start but if you make any upgrades at all (which is true for most players I guess) you will see them.

 

regardless, your initial list is more than a bit misleading. loyalty missions come After recruitment, and some npcs is not even initial recruit-able.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Chrisimo]

a bit of a misrepresentation, no? some powers you list is unlockable late in game, and some is only available on a subsequent playthrough. the average player with no meta-knowledge of game does not have such a robust list to choose from.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

You can unlock every special power of your squadmates as soon as you get their loyalty. At least I could. And on my first playthrough, too. I had like 6 or 7 powers in the end, IIRC. True you don't see them from the start but if you make any upgrades at all (which is true for most players I guess) you will see them.

 

regardless, your initial list is more than a bit misleading. loyalty missions come After recruitment, and some npcs is not even initial recruit-able.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Granted, but what was the point? That there are less possible combinations for a character in ME2 than in ME1? That's only true at the beginning of the game. And ME1 has less options in the beginning, as well. You get more options after you become a Spectre and then some after the mission on Luna (if you take that mission). Do the powers not count because you have to earn them?

[Enoch]

My Sentinel is pretty simple, and I can't imagine setting one up particularly different:

2 ranks of Throw

4 ranks of Warp

4 ranks of Tech Armor

4 ranks of Overload

0 ranks of Cryo Blast

4 ranks of the passive skill

Remaining points into AP Ammo. (Warp ammo might be a better choice, but I haven't done Jack's mission yet.)

 

I played around with Reave as the bonus skill (moving all my points from Warp to Reave) for a while, and I do think that it's a more useful ability, but it still is 80% similar to Warp, and thus not the best use of the bonus skill spot. Also, the ammo powers are effective even with a minimal investment (1 rank of AP ammo = +30% gun damage to armor and health).

 

Anyhow, I really don't see much room for any different-but-equally-effective builds. I guess one could max out Throw or Cryo Blast for crowd-control of un-armored/shielded/barriered enemies, but such a build would be relatively less effective in most fights. A different bonus skill like Slam or Neural Shock might make for marginal tactical changes, too. But really, I think that all Sentinels are going to play pretty much the same way once they're past the first few levels.

[Gromnir]

a bit of a misrepresentation, no? some powers you list is unlockable late in game, and some is only available on a subsequent playthrough. the average player with no meta-knowledge of game does not have such a robust list to choose from.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

You can unlock every special power of your squadmates as soon as you get their loyalty. At least I could. And on my first playthrough, too. I had like 6 or 7 powers in the end, IIRC. True you don't see them from the start but if you make any upgrades at all (which is true for most players I guess) you will see them.

 

regardless, your initial list is more than a bit misleading. loyalty missions come After recruitment, and some npcs is not even initial recruit-able.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Granted, but what was the point? That there are less possible combinations for a character in ME2 than in ME1? That's only true at the beginning of the game. And ME1 has less options in the beginning, as well. You get more options after you become a Spectre and then some after the mission on Luna (if you take that mission). Do the powers not count because you have to earn them?

 

again, you is being misleading. a me 2 sentinel built by enoch or Gromnir or you will look pretty much identical by level 30. sure, maybe you got 1 point in a bunch o' bonus powers, but 'cause such powers is only available very late, your sentinel will not be very different from Gromnir's.

 

as for me 1 spectre... is apples and oranges. spectre in me 1 can be unlocked 'round level 12 in a game where you easily reach level 40 on first play... and spectre bonuses does not cost additional points to provide a benefit neither. Gromnir rare put more than a handful of points into the spectre line from me 1... just enough to get first level o' unity. even so, we benefited from the choice between operative or commando when playing a me 1 infiltrator. greater diversity were created, even if it were largely illusory.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps: similar to enoch, we is very curious about warp ammo... but it were available late in game and as such it were not worth exploring. warp kills everything, so is warp ammo analogous? the problem is that we do not know at this point, and we already finished an entire game. btw, as difficulty is increased, the value o' tech armour, shields and fortification powers seems to diminish. cover is 10x more important than armour or shields. on a high level o' difficulty we might alter enoch's suggested build by decreasing tech armour and increasing something else.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Gromnir

[RPGmasterBoo]

What do builds matter in gameplay with so few options? Whatever character you play in both ME's combat is pretty much the same... And there are no non combat skills so... Whats the point?

Edited February 5, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Chrisimo]

a bit of a misrepresentation, no? some powers you list is unlockable late in game, and some is only available on a subsequent playthrough. the average player with no meta-knowledge of game does not have such a robust list to choose from.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

You can unlock every special power of your squadmates as soon as you get their loyalty. At least I could. And on my first playthrough, too. I had like 6 or 7 powers in the end, IIRC. True you don't see them from the start but if you make any upgrades at all (which is true for most players I guess) you will see them.

 

regardless, your initial list is more than a bit misleading. loyalty missions come After recruitment, and some npcs is not even initial recruit-able.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Granted, but what was the point? That there are less possible combinations for a character in ME2 than in ME1? That's only true at the beginning of the game. And ME1 has less options in the beginning, as well. You get more options after you become a Spectre and then some after the mission on Luna (if you take that mission). Do the powers not count because you have to earn them?

 

again, you is being misleading. a me 2 sentinel built by enoch or Gromnir or you will look pretty much identical by level 30. sure, maybe you got 1 point in a bunch o' bonus powers, but 'cause such powers is only available very late, your sentinel will not be very different from Gromnir's.

 

You will get bonus powers way before you are able to max out all of your basic powers. Most will be able to do the first loyalty missions when they have enough points to max out between 1 to 2 basic powers (10-20 Points needed for that). And no one forces you to max out powers, either. You could acquire 3 or 4 or 5 additional powers and only put 1 or 2 points in any of them. On my first playthrough I started with 4 basic powers and ended the game with 6 or 7 powers in total. One of them being Reave which I got fairly late in the game.

But I guess we have make a survey to see how much variety can be seen in ME1 characters and ME2 characters. Maybe most ME1 Sentinals looked the same, too.

Anyway, at least in theory you could make as many different combinations in ME1 as in ME2.

[jaguars4ever]

*Note on the prevalence of daddy issues - Bio's writers really need a therapist.

They've already got one. She's great. She also feeds your fish and strip dances for you.

[Hurlshort]

Anyone tried the crashed ship mission yet? That really took me by surprise, I just wish there were more backstory to the mission.

It was pretty painful how an elite soldier is not able to hop over a 3 ft/1 m gap in the floor.

 

But at least it's much better than the Normandy crash site. I still haven't found all dog tags after returning to that place 5 times.

 

 

odds are, you haven't shot the boxes. The ones on the ground were surprisingly easy to find.

 

Speaking of which.. what were they doing in there?

 

And how did a bunch of fragile crates survive the ship blowing up and crash landing on a planet?

[HoonDing]

*Note on the prevalence of daddy issues - Bio's writers really need a therapist.

They've already got one. She's great. She also feeds your fish and strip dances for you.

Now if she would also scan planets... *shakes fist*

[Oner]

*Note on the prevalence of daddy issues - Bio's writers really need a therapist.

They've already got one. She's great. She also feeds your fish and strip dances for you.

Now if she would also scan planets... *shakes fist*

That should be Joker's job, for getting us killed because of his ship f**gotry.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Anyone tried the crashed ship mission yet? That really took me by surprise, I just wish there were more backstory to the mission.

It was pretty painful how an elite soldier is not able to hop over a 3 ft/1 m gap in the floor.

 

But at least it's much better than the Normandy crash site. I still haven't found all dog tags after returning to that place 5 times.

 

 

odds are, you haven't shot the boxes. The ones on the ground were surprisingly easy to find.

 

Speaking of which.. what were they doing in there?

 

And how did a bunch of fragile crates survive the ship blowing up and crash landing on a planet?

 

They were made of titanium but the crash made them structurally weaker.

[Gromnir]

What do builds matter in gameplay with so few options? Whatever character you play in both ME's combat is pretty much the same... And there are no non combat skills so... Whats the point?

 

 

that is kinda the point, no? few options mean that there will be very little variation of builds. me2 offers largely pointless character development choices beyond the player's initial decision regarding class.

 

lack of meaningful character development choices does not make me2 a bad game. some of the characters is entertaining and/or intriguing, and we generally liked the writing. me2 offered some nice opportunities to make meaningful or colorful gameplay choices. even so, given the lack o' functional diversity in character builds, the character development aspect o' me2 were somewhat disappointing... which is passing odd for an original bioware crpg.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[RPGmasterBoo]

But even if there were more builds in ME (I wouldn't know) even back then it had little actual effect on gameplay. The overall experience was pretty much the same no matter what type of shepard you played.

Not to mention it had no effect on the storyline whatsoever.

 

I'm not saying its a flaw either, I just don't remember it being significantly different in the first game. Of course having less options than more isn't exactly something to brag about, but I don't see much room for improvement anyway - in ME3. Certain things have gone too far for big changes to be implemented.

 

Its going to be interesting to see how they're going to handle so many characters, plus introducing new ones. Many of them are half baked as it is, and it would be a sorry end if the entirety of ME2 was spent collecting these people not to have them return. After all there's barely 2 hours of gameplay left when you finally assemble the team.

 

*Btw there are those two upgrades you can use to basically rewrite your character for a meager abount of element zero. And get whatever build you desire.

Edited February 5, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Volourn]

"Whatever character you play in both ME's combat is pretty much the same... And there are no non combat skills so..."

 

Not true in ME1. ME1's character system is severely underrated. ME2, on the other hand....

[Raithe]

Maybe they're just spending so much time figuring out the whole.. choices and consequences from ME1 to ME2 to ME3 that they're keeping the character skill advancement streamlined...

 

It's a random thought.

 

I'm curious to see just how big a change it will be depending on if you carry on with the Illusive Man's request, or tell him to stick it in the final sequence..

[Talonfire]

I doubt there will be much of an impact. Chances are your choice at the end of Mass Effect 2 will only come into play during the epilogue of 3. I doubt Cerberus will come after Shepard if you went with the Paragon ending since Martin Sheen believes that Shepard is the only one who can stop the Reapers.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Talonfire

[Nepenthe]

a bit of a misrepresentation, no? some powers you list is unlockable late in game, and some is only available on a subsequent playthrough. the average player with no meta-knowledge of game does not have such a robust list to choose from.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

You can unlock every special power of your squadmates as soon as you get their loyalty. At least I could. And on my first playthrough, too. I had like 6 or 7 powers in the end, IIRC. True you don't see them from the start but if you make any upgrades at all (which is true for most players I guess) you will see them.

 

regardless, your initial list is more than a bit misleading. loyalty missions come After recruitment, and some npcs is not even initial recruit-able.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

But the theory at least is that with the different way bonus powers are set up, there's going to be relatively significant variations between characters, say Sentinels in this case.

 

I'm also far from certain that all end-game characters are going to have the same weapons training.

 

Or every other sentinel went with assault rifle training and squad AP ammo, like I did.

 

To reiterate, I'm not calling ME2 the pinnacle of customisation, I'm saying that when you compare a lvl 60, or even ~55 ME1 character and a lvl 30 ME2 character, the differences between builds will be similarly minimal.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

You guys nitpick too much.

[Volourn]

"To reiterate, I'm not calling ME2 the pinnacle of customisation, I'm saying that when you compare a lvl 60, or even ~55 ME1 character and a lvl 30 ME2 character, the differences between builds will be similarly minimal."

 

Nah.

[Deraldin]

My Sentinel is pretty simple, and I can't imagine setting one up particularly different:

2 ranks of Throw

4 ranks of Warp

4 ranks of Tech Armor

4 ranks of Overload

0 ranks of Cryo Blast

4 ranks of the passive skill

Remaining points into AP Ammo. (Warp ammo might be a better choice, but I haven't done Jack's mission yet.)

 

I played around with Reave as the bonus skill (moving all my points from Warp to Reave) for a while, and I do think that it's a more useful ability, but it still is 80% similar to Warp, and thus not the best use of the bonus skill spot. Also, the ammo powers are effective even with a minimal investment (1 rank of AP ammo = +30% gun damage to armor and health).

 

Anyhow, I really don't see much room for any different-but-equally-effective builds. I guess one could max out Throw or Cryo Blast for crowd-control of un-armored/shielded/barriered enemies, but such a build would be relatively less effective in most fights. A different bonus skill like Slam or Neural Shock might make for marginal tactical changes, too. But really, I think that all Sentinels are going to play pretty much the same way once they're past the first few levels.

 

My sentinel ended up with the following skills

 

3 ranks of Throw

4 ranks of Warp (Heavy)

3 ranks of Tech Armor

4 ranks of Overload (Heavy)

2 ranks of Cryo Blast

4 ranks of passive skill (Guardian)

3 ranks of bonus skill (swapped it out several times. Ended with Slam)

 

I was running with Garrus so I upgraded his ammo skill to level 4 and gave it the squad ability. I was playing on Hardcore for what it's worth. I'm not entirely sure, but I think the area abilities might have been a better choice over the heavy versions. Being able to remove the defences from multiple weak enemies and then following up with an area throw or similar to take more enemies out of the fight faster. Will have to test further on another run. Cryo Blast was an afterthought because I didn't have enough points to max anything else out.

 

But the theory at least is that with the different way bonus powers are set up, there's going to be relatively significant variations between characters, say Sentinels in this case.

 

I'm also far from certain that all end-game characters are going to have the same weapons training.

 

Or every other sentinel went with assault rifle training and squad AP ammo, like I did.

 

To reiterate, I'm not calling ME2 the pinnacle of customisation, I'm saying that when you compare a lvl 60, or even ~55 ME1 character and a lvl 30 ME2 character, the differences between builds will be similarly minimal.

 

Except maybe for those that have the Collector Rifle, why would anyone pick up the Assault Rifle skill? Doesn't it replace the SMGs which seemingly never run out of ammo? I grabbed the sniper rifle and never looked back. I didn't need a slight upgrade at medium range when the SMG worked just fine burst firing with the occasional biotic or tech ability thrown in for good measure.

[Nepenthe]

Except maybe for those that have the Collector Rifle, why would anyone pick up the Assault Rifle skill? Doesn't it replace the SMGs which seemingly never run out of ammo? I grabbed the sniper rifle and never looked back. I didn't need a slight upgrade at medium range when the SMG worked just fine burst firing with the occasional biotic or tech ability thrown in for good measure.

 

No, it does not replace the SMGs. And with my play style, the extra punch & especially accuracy at mid-long range from the battle rifle was really useful.

[Deraldin]

Except maybe for those that have the Collector Rifle, why would anyone pick up the Assault Rifle skill? Doesn't it replace the SMGs which seemingly never run out of ammo? I grabbed the sniper rifle and never looked back. I didn't need a slight upgrade at medium range when the SMG worked just fine burst firing with the occasional biotic or tech ability thrown in for good measure.

 

No, it does not replace the SMGs. And with my play style, the extra punch & especially accuracy at mid-long range from the battle rifle was really useful.

It doesn't? Hmm, good to know. Still think I'd rather have the snipers over the battle rifle though.

[Raithe]

Except maybe for those that have the Collector Rifle, why would anyone pick up the Assault Rifle skill? Doesn't it replace the SMGs which seemingly never run out of ammo? I grabbed the sniper rifle and never looked back. I didn't need a slight upgrade at medium range when the SMG worked just fine burst firing with the occasional biotic or tech ability thrown in for good measure.

 

Technically, the SMG is meant to be good against shields, but not so great against armor.. While the Assault Rifle is meant to be equally good against shields , armor, and health. Plus it works better to pick them off at longer range and is a bit more steady if you're ripping off long bursts at the enemy.

[Gromnir]

let us keep in mind that we ain't claiming that me1 were some kinda ideal o' crpg design. Gromnir were not a big fan o' the customization options available in me1 as we felt there were considerable redundancy and some obvious dog skills/talents... and it often seemed as if adding additional points to a skill did not have proportional impact on gameplay. nevertheless, we has played me1 multiple times and choice of class did not effectively end the character development options. based on manner in which we distributed points, a me 1 commando-infiltrator were a near invulnerable combat killer. as an operative-infiltrator, we we could leave tali or kaiden on the normandy as our tech skills were more than sufficient for any scenario. we had numerous variations o' both kinda characters.

 

me2? if we play another infiltrator, we is gonna build the exact same way 'cause it just not matter. a few points changed in one skill or another will not change gameplay approach much or at all.

 

btw, the functionality that allows you to retrain is a bit... odd. am admitting that we "gamed" the system as we used the operative-agent early in game to benefit from the paragon/renegade point bonus, and then switched to operative-assassin once we had maxed paragon points. retrain still felt like cheese.

 

HA! Good Fun!