Monte Carlo Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Today, devs. have a chance to actually teach gamers how to play the games as in the tutorials found in Mass Effect, Oblivon and Fallout 3; basically they introduce you to the world while they also introduce you to the combat system and how you move etc. People these days want to jump into playing right away. They don't (most of them anyway) want to read a lot before they're able to play game. And this gives us the schizm or contrast or dichotomy between the gameplay and the narrative someone described earlier in this thread. Simply because the way the narrative (story) is told sets it apart from the gameplay. Character progess do not make it into the story nor do dialogue matter much in terms of the narrative. In short: In order to sell the millions of games required today the gameplay and the narrative need to be somewhat apart or in conflict with each other. Dragon Age: Orgins to me sounds like it trying to bind them together again; you can kill your comrades, dialogues and actions matter in the game, characters will leave, if they do not agree with you, the origin stories seem to tie in with the game, too - many more times than we have been used to seeing in games these days If Bioware are trying this then more power to them and I'll happily eat a whole crow pie with crow-flavoured gravy if they do. Remember, though, we are told (ad nauseum) that choices, actions, multiple endings, re-playability (etc) are not as important anymore. Why? 'Cuz the mythical Joe Gamer will only play the game once, will in all probability never actually finish it yet will feel cheated that he didn't actually get to see everything in it. I don't buy this argument, but hey, I don't work in the marketing department of a major computer entertainment company. So if Bio are swimming against the Tsunami of alleged gamer attention-deficit then maybe I'm being too harsh on them. I don't think so, but we'll see. Cheers MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Opus Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I really have troiuble understanding why no one cares about these things. In my particular case, it's Harper's Fatigue. Have been harping on the increasingly wide fracture between gameplay (combat/puzzles/exploring) and story (dialogue) for years now.... albeit quietly and only intermittently at best. At this point, having been told so often that "it's just a game" and that "group death is a valid way of representing an individual; NPCs aren't people", I'm not looking at DA:O as anything other than a party-based game. Bio's not going to compromise their idea of what's fun for the sake of the story (I draw a distinction between plot and story, note: I don't consider Bio games story-driven so much as plot-driven; too many story elements have been compromised for me to consider the experience as a whole as "story". Bio's story == dialogue). If they can deliver on that front, I'll call the game a success. I've really missed party-based games (by which I mean me controlling the characters in the party). The story might lack a certain presentational quality, but... I'm not going to bother arguing the point any more. Bio knows what they're doing. And many people like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I prefer all-or-nothing death. Winning the fight, but reloading anyways because one person died isn't fun, nor am I willing to go the rest of the game without a companion I like. I don't find combat that compelling that I think it should dominate gameplay considerations. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niten_Ryu Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) So if Bio are swimming against the Tsunami of alleged gamer attention-deficit then maybe I'm being too harsh on them. I don't think so, but we'll see. IMO Bioware is just doing that. I mean it might have been more cost effective for EA to have 10 hour game with little or no choices. Unknown in that case would be the older Bioware game fans, who might turn into army of disgrunded fanboys and then word of the mouth could kill that game no matter how good it would be otherwise. Call of Duty is allowed to be short and fast game but none has really tested the grounds with CRPGs. Both Baldur's Gate games sold really good. Actually when looking how much average AAA game cost to develop back then, sales were absolutely monsterious. I just read today that 2009 have had horrible game sale numbers. Gamasutra writes only few games over all three consoles have managed to top million sold games. PC numbers are really hard to track these days as many are sold on Steam or similar system or are MMOGs. Back to Baldur's Gate. Some sources estimate that both games sold over two million copies (I only found references on various messageboards, not actual data or news articles). Those kind of numbers would be damn nice even today. Highest selling PS3 game this year, Killzone 2, is said to have only sold 750.000 units. Question is - How many players who bought Baldur's Gate back in the day still play and have roughly the same taste in games? And how many new potential players could enjoy Baldur's Gate (ie not require actual game to be dumbed down or significantly changed). Dragon Age might be ok litmus test but being true in all ways to Baldur's Gate would have been even better. Edited July 21, 2009 by Niten_Ryu Let's play Alpha Protocol My misadventures on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 "Remember, though, we are told (ad nauseum) that choices, actions, multiple endings, re-playability (etc) are not as important anymore." Anymore? This has ALWAYS been true. It's also true that most people who *do* replay games don't do because of 'multiple choices', 'multiple endings' or those other RPG buzzwords people spout they claim enhances replayability. The #1 reason people*do* replay games is fun. Plain, and simple. P.S. Mind you, those RPG buzzwords can, if used properly *can* increase one's fun with a game. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I prefer all-or-nothing death. Winning the fight, but reloading anyways because one person died isn't fun, nor am I willing to go the rest of the game without a companion I like. I don't find combat that compelling that I think it should dominate gameplay considerations. And there, you see, is the rub. Because I'm the polar opposite, I find combat compelling and think it should be central to gameplay considerations. I'd rather have excellent, crunchy tactical combat than uber-complex NPCs (beginning to see why Torment was my idea of, well, torment?). Of course, there's nothing wrong with either preference unless you are a games designer, where you will try to accommodate both camps. I'm pretty easily assauged by difficulty sliders and options - there's no reason why Maria can't have her all-party-die mechanic and I can have main character dies and it's all over mechanic. Losing a key NPC can make a game even more rewarding. I know it sounds obtuse, but it can be. The first time I played BG2-ToB and fought Demogorgon I lost Minsc. Minsc by this time was my primary melee character, had bags of experience and was a pivotal part of my party. But he perma-died, gibbed by the arch-demon. His portrait disappeared forever. I'd won the battle, though, and wow it was tough. I thought about it decided to accept the loss and carry on. It made the game more challenging, I had to develop a new NPC to fit that role and so on. It made the battle more meaningful, and the overall game more immersive. I accept that I'm in a minority there, but it shows how we all look at gameplay mechanics very differently. Cheers MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte Carlo Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 BTW, does anybody have a definitive release date for DA? Has it been pushed back to November (as I read somewhere). Cheers MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SadExchange Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I believe it's October 20th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 The first time I played BG2-ToB and fought Demogorgon I lost Minsc. Minsc by this time was my primary melee character, had bags of experience and was a pivotal part of my party. But he perma-died, gibbed by the arch-demon. His portrait disappeared forever. I'd won the battle, though, and wow it was tough. I thought about it decided to accept the loss and carry on. It made the game more challenging, I had to develop a new NPC to fit that role and so on. It made the battle more meaningful, and the overall game more immersive. ****in' A. A shame that chunking couldn't be solved by Wish + Resurrection, though. - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 A new look at the dwarven commoner origin. Spoilers Ahoy! "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syraxis Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 A new look at the dwarven commoner origin. Spoilers Ahoy! Yay for selling your sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I'm reading the book right now. It's actually pretty good, quick paced and easy to follow. One of the better I've read based on an IP like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aries101 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 A new look at the dwarven commoner origin. Spoilers Ahoy! Yay for selling your sister. Yaah... This game just got interesting again - and I mean that in every possible positive meaning of the word... At last, Bioware shows us what it means to be a common dwarf; apparently it is cross between 'I've got an offer you can't refuse' and the Indian society 200 years ago... so yaah.... Please support http://www.maternityworldwide.org/ - and save a mother giving birth to a child. Please support, Andrew Bub, the gamerdad - at http://gamingwithchildren.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oner Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Human Noble Trailer Spoilarz obviously. There's a Dwarven Commoner Trailer in the related links too. In regards to the videos, I like what I see. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Heh, something happened in that trailer I didn't experience in my playthrough!! (Loads Human Noble origin again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Wow I missed a lot of lore type conversations!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Human Noble Trailer Spoilarz obviously. Well, that was pretty compelling - wonder how it turns out for a female noble... I'm waiting with worms on my tongue for the City Elf origin trailer. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristes Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I might go for the Human Noble or the Feral Elf (Or whatever they call it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Dalish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Some gameplay from Gametrailers. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syraxis Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Yeah, my first play-through is definitely dalish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Noble human, male. I like it safe for my first playthrough. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF4JjIM84bc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF4JjIM84bc Rawr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PoziomyPion Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF4JjIM84bc Rawr! She has a nice sausage. Edited July 24, 2009 by PoziomyPion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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