Sexist KOTOR 2

[ncr]

I should have known the minute I saw the concept art for Mira. This was a game created by men, for men. KOTOR I was made for everyone. It even allowed one female character (Bastila) a pretty major role. Bastila was the key to the whole Republic war effort in the game. Talk about a huge role! This was progress... and I guess I hoped it would carry over to the next game. Well it was a fun ride while it lasted; now back to the status quo.

 

 

KOTOR II was made exclusively for male gamers. Don't believe me? Just take a look at the female characters. Visas is possibly the most degrading character in recent video game history. I mean she takes us all the way back to the early sixties "I Dream of Genie" days.

 

"My life is yours master. I serve only you. I obey you and clean the Ebon Hawk and I'd like to lick your body if you'd allow me the privilege master... ect." Her boobs couldn't possibly be any bigger, as they already round corners before she does.

 

The character that suffered the most from the sexualization was clearly Mira. To put it nicely, Mira is a joke, a parody of all the bad depictions of women in video games. I mean, technically she's a bounty hunter, but judging by her wardrobe and makeup she look like she belongs in one of Nar Shadaa's brothels. Why was she dressed as a prostitute? Horny developer? Young, male target audience? Who knows? What I do know is sister needs to lay off the collagen.

 

The few strong, female characters in the game are depicted as ugly, namely Kreia or the governess of Khoonda for examples. They were blow up dolls like Luxa with her huge watermelons and slutwear for example, or they're depicted as deceitful/traders (Kreia, Atris). In KOTOR I, for all its faults seemed to give female characters more clothes and better roles. Yes you had to save Bastila, but she was strong enough to survive on her own. Besides there were strong roles for women characters like Juhani and even the annoying Mission was far less subservient than some of the females in this game.

[dufflover]

...and I'd like to lick your body if you'd allow me the privilege.."

...Her boobs couldn't possibly be any bigger, as they're already round corners before she is.

 

...(Mira)...she look like she belongs in one of Nar Shadaa's brothels.  Why was she dressed as a prostitute?...What I do know is sister needs to lay off the collagen.   

 

...were blow up dolls like Luxa with her huge watermelons and slutwear for example, or they're depicted as deceitful/traitors (Kreia, Atris).

 

I don't agree with you but your post gave me some laughs nevertheless.

 

I accept that a Male PC seems to get more entertainment in K2 over a Female PC, but not that much different from KotOR 1.

[Redmen]

"

[Revan Si-Darlo]

I'm shocked and ashamed. I feel wounded being a male myself...

 

No, really, I think Mira and the Handmaiden are interesting characters. Even Visas has some interesting aspects though not as many as the other two. And really, I've heard the same things said about KOTOR so its not as if this is a new issue or anything.

[Jedihuh?]

You know if you look hardenough you could turn the most unsexist thing in the world to look like its sexist. And considering you can play as a female and have men fight over you makes it pretty clear that its unsexist...I could say...why aren't the males overweight at all? or have pimples or excesive body hair? why does the desiple pretty much stalk u in the game if ur a female? Give it up.

[dufflover]

You know if you look hardenough you could turn the most unsexist thing in the world to look like its sexist.

Or just add beer... from to after chugging some down

[Azure79]

This whole post is a joke right?

[Taran'atar]

I think you're just being hypersensative. The same arguements could be made in reverse for the first KOTOR. For example:

 

Carth: Whiney coward. He talks and talks about protecting people, but when it comes time to do it, he'll leave a 14 year old girl to die.

 

Jolee: Weak old man. His attempts at wisdom are nothing that you don't already know.

 

Zaalbar: Pretty much useless all around.

 

Canderous: Probably the most degrading character in video game history. "I'm big and dumb and all I know how to do is kill things." That paints guys in a real flattering light.

 

Of course, I'm not going to make these arguements, since I don't really believe this stuff, but if I was hypersensative about sexism against men, I could.

[kitty_with_a_lightsaber]

I wish you could choose your characters sexuality....And I wish they had prettier models for men . I dont want to be some fugly guy!!!

[tmp]

KOTOR I was made for everyone.  It even allowed one female character (Bastila) a pretty major role.  Bastila was the key to the whole Republic war effort in the game.  Talk about a huge role!

Kreia. if being your mentor that's clearly superior to you throughout the whole game *and* the final nemesis is not a huge role, i dunno what is...

 

In comparison Bastilla was mostly a tool. A tool of republic to gain upper hand n battle, the tool of the Jedi Council to keep the eye on Revan... she was a pretty tool of course, but hardly ever had any active part on her own, she's mostly following orders. Compare it to Kreia who *plays* the whole galaxy as pawns, your character included, to have *her* goals realized... it's no contest, really.

 

The character that suffered the most from the sexualization was clearly Mira.  To put it nicely, Mira is a joke, a parody of all the bad depictions of women in video games.  I mean, technically she's a bounty hunter, but judging by her wardrobe and makeup she look like she belongs in one of Nar Shadaa's brothels.  Why was she dressed as a prostitute?

You appear to judge people by the looks, which pretty much renders your opinion unimportant, and yourself a very shallow person.

 

Plus, you need to get out more, seriously. If you think Mira is dressed like a prostitute, a walk down a street might make you realize just how real prostitutes dress, and that's quite a bit different from Mira's outfit...

 

The few strong, female characters in the game are depicted as ugly, namely Kreia or the governess of Khoonda for examples.

Kreia is specifically mentioned as someone who must've been beautiful in the past, and i found her a distuinguished lady even in her older years... is she ugly to you because she's old? i think we're back to the shallow judgements you make.

 

As for strong characters... *your* character can be a woman. If *you* failed to play a strong person, who is to blame for it but yourself? "

[Blue Green]

Did you ever hear Mira when she explains why she dresses as she does? I did find it plausible, actually.

 

Eh....I didn't think the game was sexist, and I'm usually bothered by such things. I did find Visas annoyingly subservient, but that was part of her character, it was interesting. And Mira is great.....Bothan stunners, anyone?

 

BG.

[Darth Flatus]

I would have thought the gold bikini and handmaiden fighting in her underwear would have made the top of your list of gripes ncr

 

I can see where your coming from but its nothing new - its in all aspects of media.

 

 

.and I'd like to lick your body if you'd allow me the privilege

 

 

wow! how do i get this dialogue from Mira?

[Blarghagh]

Oh, please go back and whine to your feminazi friends. The males in the game in question are a weak old man who can barely stay alive without implants, an alchoholic, criminal, sexist fool with an evil secret and DISCIPLE. So far, you're getting off good. At least you get Handmaiden, who is a strong female character. All we got is Bao-Dur, who only knows one word: 'Angst'.

 

Besides, all the guys have huge pecks and muscles and a nice V shape and you're not complaining about that. We can have our boobies. Unless you're a lesbian and don't like guys, you have no right to complain, and if you are one, then you wouldn't be complaining anyway.

 

"My life is yours master.  I serve only you.  I obey you and clean the Ebon Hawk and I'd like to lick your body if you'd allow me the privilege master... ect."  Her boobs couldn't possibly be any bigger, as they already round corners before she does.

 

Of course, and how about "No, I won't put on that dancing outfit even if you want me to." Personally, I think that's a big improvement over "Let's press our slimy, mucous covered lips together and share our saliva in the cargo hold." And I actually spent the game missing Bastila's huge knockers, so don't go defending Bastila after you make a comment like that. It's just hypocrisy.

[BattleCookiee]

1. At least they finish their games. All I know about Obsidian is that they commit to things they can't complete

 

2. Characters from Sith Lords shouldn't count since it's not a Star Wars game.

 

3. Why would I use an avatar from a game as horribly vacuous as this one?

 

4. I'll buy KOTOR III as long as Chris Avellone stays far away from it.

 

5. QUOTE(Feargus Urquhart @ Mar 24 2005, 06:34 PM)

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't feel that KotOR2 was a shocking disappointment.

 

Says the developer.

 

Very possitive ain't it?

Looks like you studied 3 hours when walking around the Ebon Hawk and thought: "He, another thing untrue were I can b*tch about..."

 

Waiting for you're next untrue statement (What about the fact there are only male droids???)

[DevilCat]

Umm..what shall I start from? Kreia, who is arguably the most important character through the entire game, I'd say even more so than the Exile, is not a key player enough? She is your Master (and one really hard to please for that matter), you have zero influence on her alignment and she's the final villain of the game - I don't think you can get more important than that. And she must be at *least* in her fifties, you can't exactly be Miss Universe at that age, and even then she's strong, athletic and I wouldn't call her ugly.

 

Mira had a really convincing explanation for the way she dresses. It made me laugh, too. She also strikes me as being one of the most unsubservient NPC's in the game. Not only she doesn't look up to you or drool over you if you're male, but actually says that male PC is "too old", in other words, "get lost buddy". Not very submissive, is it?

 

Visas acts in the same way towards male and female PC and as someone said it's a part of her character.

 

Edit: Oh yeah I forgot the governess of Khoonda. Ugly?? Well I guess it's a matter of taste. I thought she was depicted in a very positive light as a strong and independent person. She's the only one who holds everything from falling apart on Dantooine.

[Guest Damar Stiehl]

I laughed

[Cybersquirt]

I should have known the minute I saw the concept art for Mira.  This was a game created by men, for men.

That would be by menBoys for menBoys.

 

KOTOR I was made for everyone.

Oh?

 

It even allowed one female character (Bastila) a pretty major role.

"pretty" major? Kriea is a far stronger role.

 

Bastila was the key to the whole Republic war effort in the game.  Talk about a huge role!  This was progress...  and I guess I hoped it would carry over to the next game.  Well it was a fun ride while it lasted; now back to the status quo.

Bastila was using you to get to the top and and deluding herself while doing it. That's a stereotype of something... I can't quite put my finger on it...

 

Status quo? Hardly. This game introduced Kriea and evil - not just killEverythingInYourPathMalak evil, but eEevil.

 

Visas is possibly the most degrading character in recent video game history.

Visas is a character with a personality. There must be at least one strong (love) interest. KotOR had Bastilla, KotOR2 has Visas. And I think even Visas could beat the snot out of Bastilla. :D

 

Her boobs couldn't possibly be any bigger, as they already round corners before she does.

Uh. Handmaiden has her beat.

 

The character that suffered the most from the sexualization was clearly Mira.  To put it nicely, Mira is a joke, a parody of all the bad depictions of women in video games.  I mean, technically she's a bounty hunter, but judging by her wardrobe and makeup she look like she belongs in one of Nar Shadaa's brothels. 

But her personality is far from the male fantasy.

 

The few strong, female characters in the game are depicted as ugly, namely Kreia or the governess of Khoonda for examples. 

Again, her personality and intellect could level Bastilla in a heartbeat. Why does she need to be beautiful? In this case it would just detract from the character. Kriea is supposed to be your elder and your mentor, not your love interest.

 

Besides there were strong roles for women characters like Juhani and even the annoying Mission was far less subservient than some of the females in this game.

You're calling Juhani strong? Please. She's an emotional wreck.

 

Luxa pissed me off too - but it's also an ugly model, so.. eh. Whatever

 

The industry is dominated by men so it stands to reason their fantasy(ies) will be thoroughly integrated into the game. This is not the only game to do so, however, and I don't think bioWare did it any better.

 

It's also tricky business coming in and doing sequel work with another (popular) dev's Game of the Year. But, by all means, don't let me dissuade you in your Crusade Against Obsidian.

[volodja]

i agree with poster ncr. it's more sexism in TSL than kotor 1.

 

the only strong character, kreia, is just like christian mythology,

represented by the devil in disguise. nevertheless, it's a great game,

even if the game's feministic developement took a big step backwards.

 

but hey, it's a way to attract to biggest groups of buyers, the men.

as every marketting person would think in these times...

[tmp]

i agree with poster ncr. it's more sexism in TSL than kotor 1.

 

the only strong character, kreia, is just like christian mythology,

represented by the devil in disguise. nevertheless, it's a great game,

even if the game's feministic developement took a big step backwards.

Uhmm "the only strong character"?

 

You have determined women in charge all over KotOR 2:

 

* the administrator of Dantooine.

* the leader of Dantooine scavenger group.

* Czerka manager on Telos.

* head bodyguard of Exchange boss on Telos.

* Atris in charge of Telos academy (and her handmaidens aren't exactly weak, either)

* the woman on Nar Shadaa taking over the swoop race intending to rebuild it after the guy running it drove the business into the ground

* the shopkeeper girl in Nar Shadaa that makes her male competitor go nearly bankrupt because she's better vendor.

* Onderon queen, hardly as 'weak' as she's being painted by those running for the throne themselves.

* dealer in Onderon cantina, apparently very well connected and infamous member (boss?) of local underground.

* leader of that little bunch of too-trigger-happy cantina guests, Onderon again.

 

Some of them aren't "good" characters but then so is quite a few if not most of men in this game. There's very refreshing 'equal opportunity' approach to the issue in KotOR2, but if someone like the original poster can't focus on anything but Visas' chest or Mira's fashion sense then they aren't going to spot it. <_<

[kirottu]

I laughed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You have a better sense of humor than I do.

 

Ncr judged every woman character in this game by their appearance and if that

[Invoker]

I could say...why aren't the males overweight at all? or have pimples or excesive body hair?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's what the Hutt's are there for, my friend!

[Timber Loftis]

Hmmmm.... what to say? Golly, this is tough.

 

First, as to Mira -- she explains her dress style. But, more importantly, she's younger than the Exile and LOOK AROUND YOU it's not like women don't dress like that these days. They do. Brittney Spears scandalous belly-baring midriff shirts of 7 years ago are now the STATUS QUO.

 

And, as for the comments about Visas, she's not that sexed out -- despite the fact you obviously have boob envy. The "I Dream of Genie" comparison is funny, and I laughed, but I recognize it can only come from envy.

 

I don't game much with Handmaiden, but after this post you can betchurass I'm gonna put her in my party for the final battle (I'm on the end parts of the game), and I'm gonna take all her armor and clothes off and lust over her panties and bra bouncing through the world just to spite you.

 

If you notice, the majority of the key characters in this story are women, so enjoy it -- lest we send you back to the kitchen where you belong and end this whole equality movement crap we've put up with. I mean, the thing was interesting when "women's empowerment" thing meant skimpier clothes and women who would ask us out -- but this kind of whining is annoying. It's as if you've suddenly become a French union member who's pissed they only get 65 days a year of vacation.

 

Several people made good points that the male characters are also hotties in this game as well. You may note that it's NOT POSSIBLE for either gender to make a 250 lb. character with pimples and glasses who eats Doritos and plays video games in their free time.

 

In conclusion: GET OVER IT, SELL YOUR DARNED GAME AND BUY A GYM MEMBERSHIP TO BEGIN DEALING WITH YOUR INSECURITIES.

[tmp]

Brittney Spears scandalous belly-baring midriff shirts of 7 years ago are now the STATUS QUO.

Not to mention the 'scandalous' style is straight rip off from the 70's. Happened to watch "The One Man Band" with Louis de Fun

[AlanC9]

Isn't calling Kreia ugly ageist?

[Darth Flatus]

Sexist KOTOR 2?

 

More like Sexy KOTOR 2. Mmm yeah baby!