AlanC9

I don't mind letting Mira take a lot of Scout levels before Jedifying her. Leave her as a ranged combatant. When she's a Jedi, give her the powers that let you deflect without a lightsaber. The best reason for going to Nar Shaddaa is to get HK-47 and GO-T0, if you care about influencing them. Mira's a nonissue since you get all the influence you want from her from dialog. OTOH, you get better results from your personal crystal if you pick it up early, don't you? I know I've never maxed the thing when I didn't at least visit Dantooine first.

I've got a bit of a different take on it. I think Obsidian's designers understand the SW universe well enough -- they just don't like it much. The main theme of KotOR 2 is pretty much an assault on SW metaphysics. I'm amazed LA approved it. Didn't bother me, since I'm pretty much in David Brin's camp anyway.

What do you mean by "1,000 point scale"?

So you want to start playing K3 at level 20+?

Implied where? I don't see any such implication. In fact, my impression of Malachor V is that Revan wasn't present at all; wouldn't he have been giving orders rather than the Exile? @Drakron: I don't think HK-47 was sent to kill Mandalore the Ultimate (hate the nomenclature, but we have to keep them distinct). He was sent after a pretender. We know that there were several, though nobody had the helmet until Canderous. HK-47 declares in KotOR:"You created me shortly after you and your apprentice began your war to conquer the galaxy;" it's also clear that Malak was already DS when HK-47 met him for the first time. My interpretation of this at the time was that HK-47 was built after the Mandalorians were defeated. This is consistent with KotOR 2. @kalimeeri: it depends on if you buy HK-47's interpretation of Malachor V or not. If you do, then Revan intended to lose that portion of own fleet there. Though perhaps he didn't know about the MSG, and taking out the Mandalorians was a bonus.

A bit OT, but how did you get Atton as a Jedi before doing Nar Shaddaa? I didn't think you could LS Jedify him without taking him to the refugee sector.

Yep. Especially interesting for Consulars. Might be an opportunity for HK-47 to save life, the universe, and everything, though.

Gotta disagree with this part. There are plenty of cinematics. They just don't involve humans. (And they're in crappy XBox resolution too)

Well, of course it's obvious to the player and not the Exile. It's supposed to be. We get all those cutscenes showing her working on her own agenda. I think this is questionable RPG design, but maybe they didn't want people complaining about being betrayed. And really, how badly does Kreia betray you? Besides making you kill her, of course.

No, that makes no sense. The cuts happened after the VO was recorded. That's why we have audio for the cut material. So Kreia was always going to blab like that. Unless they got the actress in to rerecord dialog, but that's very unlikely.

But isn't this all assuming that Nihilus should have been the Biggest Bad Guy? I don't think he would have made a satisfying endboss at all. No personality. Killing him is like shooting a rabid dog

I think burying important aspects of the main story behind the influence system was a mistake. Especially since the only way to get as much Influence as possible is to work from a checklist, which isn't the way I like to play RPGs.

Could we please not use D&D terms when discussing Star Wars? My big problem with the resolution is that Zez-Kai Ell seems to understand the problem, but then falls right back into the same mistakes. It didn't feel right.

The Force doesn't have to have a "will" of its own to shape behavior. Our DNA doesn't have a will, but it certainly does structure our minds.

Nobody owns Dragon Age yet. It's still in pre-production; many basic elements of the design are still being worked out. That's why this is the time to make Big Suggestions.

Just talk to him.

Saberist, why don't you post your proposal on the Dragon Age board? Such ideas have no chance of appearing in a KotOR game, but since Bio's throwing out D&D, your ideas might get a fair hearing there. Or at least start an interesting debate. http://forums.bioware.com/viewforum.html?forum=84 RPGCodex would be good for that too, though you'll probably have to get past folks calling you a pretentious twit or some such. It's a good board, but not polite. http://www.rpgcodex.com But I think you overestimate the appeal of the system. The problem you're trying to solve simply isn't seen as a problem by most RPG players. (Honestly, that mimicry system for learning new katas strikes me as being a horrible bore, like all tutorial levels)

All these are abandonware, available from Home of the Underdogs. Incidentally, they preferred Magic Candle 1 to the sequel.

Well, it's hard not to guess that Kreia's working her own agenda, since Obsidian keeps showing her do that in cutscenes. I thought this was bad design, since it gives me information my character can't have. Good point that lying to gain influence should be possible.

Not a flaw. RPGs are about high-level command, not player skill. Deal with it or don't play them. As for dual-wielding... if it was better than single-wielding, why did Anakin give up the style? Of course, the real answer is that Lucas hadn't invented dual-wielding when he shot the original trilogy. :D

Not such a big deal, though. It's more XP and credits if you want them, but you don't have to do the subquests if you don't want to. The Enclave was rebuilt, so no problems there (guess the main plot variables are kept elsewhere). Funny thing was, during the flyby of the rebuilt enclave, I could see the group of scavengers coming out of the sublevel again. Also, the woman who greets you when you first land came running up again, but said her post-mercenary battle speech instead. With so many variables in inconsistent states, I'm kind of amazed the game didn't blow up. But it didn't. Thanks for the help.

They've got to deal with this in some fashion. Or how are they going to explain what happened to Revan and the Exile?

Ah, another Saberist tome. I'm not sure I can keep up with these, but I'll indulge once more, mostly because you obviously need help. The JK series vs. the KotOR series: such a lot of wasted typing from you, since you missed the point completely. Whther or not JK did swordfighting well isn't the issue. I agree that the saber duels weren't all that -- I've seen better melee combat implementations. The point is that tactical swordfighting is something that the JK games should try to do, and something that the KotOR games should not try to do. It's simply out-of-scope for a statistics-based RPG. General storyline: That depends on what you thought you were promised with K2. If you thought you would get a different combat system you are, frankly, an idiot. As you yourself said, they made millions on K1. Why would you expect Obsidian to rework a major aspect of a successful game? What's the incentive to do that? Obsidian promised nothing but more of the same, with a plot written by their people. And we got exactly that. You didn't like the story they wrote? Well, that's a shame. (I thought the story was just Planescape:Torment with lightsabers, but since I like PS:T, that's not a big strike against it.) Kreia: More typing with no discernable purpose. Your discourse on the Kamikaze ethos is true, but irrelevant. (You're making a habit of that.) It has nothing to do with the question at hand -- is Kreia a Sith? Or have you abandoned that proposition? You should, since it's untenable. But to say that Obsidian reinvented Revan's motives as Darkside-based is not only untrue, it's the opposite of the truth. Kreia argues that even DS Revan's motives were fundamentally LS. He needed to go DS to preserve the Republic. (You're stumbling around the edge of a really interesting topic -- Kreia's view implies that the LS/DS dichotomy is nonsense, which is a blatant assault on the metaphysics of the SW universe. I'm amazed LA approved) And when you talk about Bio and Obsidian "leaving the central character himself so devoid of driving motive," you show a fundamental ignorance of the nature of RPGs. When I'm playing a character, I provide the driving motives. I am playing someone who ordered the MSG used. But I decide why he did that, and how it felt to do that. (Some RPG purists would say that you shouldn't give an RPG character that much backstory. If you want to take up that topic, let's move over to the general forum, or maybe RPGCodex.) The war against the True Sith: I don't know what you think you're responding to. Third time now: However the struggle with the True Sith is portrayed, it will have to be consistent with DS Revan abandoning his position as leader of the Sith, with everything that implies. Since your ideas on how such a war could be fought are not consistent with this decision, your ideas are going to be proven incorrect. Gender representation: What did you imagine I was endorsing? I just find it quite pathetic that white males are now trying to play the "victim card." Sion: What "sealed space" are you referring to? That level was pretty open, and she could always run back to the upper level. The MSG, the Force, and heroism: If the Exile killed me, it doesn't matter if he did it with the Force, with his lightsaber, or by ordering Bao-Dur to flip a switch. I'm still dead, and he's still personally responsible. You were the one trying to make the technological means an issue, but you have articulated no basis for that. And for someone who likes to pontificate about "the moral and philosophical basis of story-telling," you don't seem to have a very good grasp of stories when you experience them. You've completely misinterpreted Kreia's motivations; in fact, you've interpreted her motivations in contradictory ways. (She's a Sith! No, she's delusional! No, she believes All Power is Dangerous! Pick one, already) And you persist in declaring what the game should have been about. Again, not your call. Write your own game if you think there's a story that needs telling. Where did you get the idea that the hero is let off the hook? There is no suggestion that anything he did was excused by anything Mira: I was snarkily pointing out that you often post a lot of concepts that have nothing to do with the ostensible subject. Specifically, the quotes from Predator. Nothing to do with KotOR, since Hanharr hadn't done any personal damage to Mira at the point she spared his life. I'll apologize for the snark, and give up pointing out the obvious. Your style is your style. Why you made assumptions about the archetypes that would go into KotOR is beyond me. Even assuming that there was such a detailed plan -- and there almost certainly wasn't, from what I know of the development history -- what made you think you would come up with the right ones? Though it is consistent with your intellectual style. You seem to pick a theory and then try to pound facts into whatever shape they need to be to conform with it. So let's turn to the facts: In the arena Mira believes, reasonably, that Hanharr is dead. I don't know enough about the limitations of Force Healing to know what level of damage this implied, and the gore-free engine isn't much help. My interpretation is that he actually was dead -- heart stopped. (This could help him, since if he exsanguinated it might make Force Healing him much more difficult.) You may have a different interpretation of his condition. Neither interpretation can be proven with evidence, but my interpretation has the advantage of leaving Mira competent. Once again, the troublesome aspects come from your interpretation, not the facts as presented. Jedi bashing: come to think of it, there's a second assault on SW metaphysics. It pretty much looks as if Kreia's right -- there is no truth or wisdom in the Force. Droids, etc.: You know, it's been said that Lucas has droids because he likes droids better than people. He certainly doesn't seem to be very good at working with actors. And I'll agree that Lucas' portrayal of heroism is hollow. Speaking of sacrifice and whatnot, it appears that Obsidian had originally intended for some of the companions to die in the endgame, though the exact plans are unclear (Atton seems to both die and live, for instance). It seems that LA approved; Obsidian got as far as recording VO dialogue for these endings, which is how we know about them. Having seen Anakin's being, um, disarmed in Ep. 2, I don't see how more gore would have changed the meaing of the scene. "And simply make _K3_ free of the foibles which have ruined it's parents. And the movies which begat their twisted moral sense." -- OK, so it's a Star Wars game, except not. And a sequel to KotOR 1 and 2, except not. You're joking, right? You buy the license, you buy everything that comes with the license. Especially since the games have been successful. Droid mindwipes: Yep, they're not human. But they're not simply things either. We need a new category. Personal shields: Again, what you're asking for has nothing to do with KotOR, and not much to do with Star Wars, and no chance of being implemented. And you know that already. So why bother with typing all that irrelevant nonsense? Thanks for the ROTS spoilers, BTW.

I had the same experience on my third playthrough. I had completely fininshed Dantooine, and was returning for the final confrontation. I'll try the fix tonight -- but if it resets Dantooine completely, won't the Enclave still be in ruins? Am I going to have to reset a second planet to finish the game?

I'll continue in the stickied thread. Thanks, Master D.