Comparing Intro Levels

[Nitron]

What's a flame war?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Trading insults in posts.

 

Also, I actually liked Peragus. It was dark and mysterious.

[cloroxmartini]

peragus was a good idea, but as with most posts in here, i agree that it was drawn on a little too long.

[Mellypie]

The only good thing about Taris was Carth.

 

I liked Peragus as well. Dark and mysterious, and I liked having to piece together what happened prior to you waking up in the kolto tank.

[Grant Dempsey]

Yeah, I'm another person who thought that Peragus II was actually a great introduction area. I thought it did a great job "introducing" the overall darker tone of the game. The scarce human (and even sentient) interaction, the mystery of the sabotage that went on throughout the mining station, the appearance of an HK-50 droid, the arrival of the Harbinger, the introduction of Darth Sion... It just all established this very dark, mysterious atmosphere, and it just really grabbed my interest right from the start.

 

It's funny...before I began my second playthrough, I was sort of reluctant to do so because I was worried that Peragus II would seem tedious to me while going through it a second time, but when I actually started it up, I really enjoyed it again, as I had on my first playthrough.

 

Of course, Taris was a great introduction area as well, but it didn't really set itself apart from the other planets like Peragus II had. Honestly, if I had to give the edge to one of the two, it would have to go to Peragus II, I think.

 

Regarding the prologue areas, T3-M4's "Save the Ebon Hawk!" Quest would definetly get the edge over the Endar Spire.

[guybrush threepwood]

Regarding the prologue areas, T3-M4's "Save the Ebon Hawk!" Quest would definetly get the edge over the Endar Spire.

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huh? the t3 mission sucked, so boring, i couldn't be bothered finishing it. On the endire spire alot more is happening, enemies, suicidal bunkmate, under attack, meeting people etc...

 

I'd say Taris, Peragus was pretty slow and dragged on, there was little interaction and alot of dealing with computers. And i don't count telos as an introductory planet...when Peragus was the introductory planet. Taris had me motivated to find bastilla, peragus had me motivated to get out of there (not to escape death, rather to escape boredom)

[Grant Dempsey]

huh? the t3 mission sucked, so boring, i couldn't be bothered finishing it. On the endire spire alot more is happening, enemies, suicidal bunkmate, under attack, meeting people etc...

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People just can't appreciate atmosphere, I guess. I thought it was pretty affecting, setting a darker tone for the game right from the start. The Ebon Hawk was in shambles, tumbling through an asteroid field, its "crew" were all lying around apparently injured or dead...only to end up flying into an eerie-looking planet with creepy music playing. I thought it was pretty neat.

[OneWithStrange]

I liked Peragus II more than Taris, because the latter seemed to drag on too long, not the former. I enjoyed solving the mystery of 'What happened to everyone?' and reading the hologram entries for clues. I may have liked Taris more if all the Sith troops started attacking me for having Bastla in my party, but they didn't. so that whole planet seemed a bit inconsistent.

 

-Ben

[phiont]

Firstly, I regard the Endar Spire as the actual intro level of KotOR. It's much more than just a prologue. The pre-Peragus prologue in TSL is optional, doesn't feature the main character and doesn't allow you to keep any gathered XP or inventory.

 

But, between Taris and Peragus I prefer Taris because it gave me an opportunity to get accustomed to the main player character. On Peragus, I turned 2 corners and suddenly I was forced to be a droid.

 

Peragus just didn't introduce very much for an intro level. The HK-50 and T3-M4 characters were just copied from game 1. Sion only participates in a cutscene. Kreia and Atton had no time to actually reveal anything about themselves.

 

On the other hand, I actually felt quite familiar with the 6 party members who escaped Taris with me. And what did Peragus have to offer compared with dueling in the ring, winning the swoopbike championship, defeating a giant rancor, surviving Calo Nord, freeing an outcast settlement, curing a plague, infiltrating a Sith military base, shooting down a fighter squadron, etc... ?? Simply no contest.

[AlaricQelDroma]

Firstly, I regard the Endar Spire as the actual intro level of KotOR.  It's much more than just a prologue.  The pre-Peragus prologue in TSL is optional, doesn't feature the main character and doesn't allow you to keep any gathered XP or inventory.

 

But, between Taris and Peragus I prefer Taris because it gave me an opportunity to get accustomed to the main player character.  On Peragus, I turned 2 corners and suddenly I was forced to be a droid.

 

Peragus just didn't introduce very much for an intro level.  The HK-50 and T3-M4 characters were just copied from game 1.  Sion only participates in a cutscene.  Kreia and Atton had no time to actually reveal anything about themselves.

 

On the other hand, I actually felt quite familiar with the 6 party members who escaped Taris with me.  And what did Peragus have to offer compared with dueling in the ring, winning the swoopbike championship, defeating a giant rancor, surviving Calo Nord, freeing an outcast settlement, curing a plague, infiltrating a Sith military base, shooting down a fighter squadron, etc... ??  Simply no contest.

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Ah, incorrect about not being able to keep anything from T3's run:

If you gather everything, then SKIP to Peragus, everything that you have will be transferred

 

It's a bug, granted, but it does work...I haven't used it in quite some time, however...I hate using bugs...Most of the time, they can end up backfiring if you do certain other things with the game...

[grphiw]

I'd have to say I liked both for different qualities, perhaps even fitting for the characters. On Taris it felt as though you were part of an undeground resistance, and training was by fire. It was Revan who landed there, and thus fitting that s/he would land on such a lively planet, one that was an opportunity to find onself again. If you wanted to interact with people, here you could. There is also a certain air in the voice acting and the events that something is bubbling beneath the surface, and is about to erupt, which it does.

 

Peragus is dead, but in a really spooky kind of way if you bother to investigate what happened. I study and analyze a lot of films, and from a cinematography point of view, Pergaus was a lot better done. The camera angle during in-game videos was not always quite straight, and the holograms were just like ghosts. My favorite scene in the whole game is still when you find out that HK-50 gassed all the miner's in the West Dormitories and you seen each miner's hologram choke in a fly-by pan. The way each hologram falls onto where the respective body lies really is striking when you watch carefully. The whole level has the feeling as if something significant happened, and you are looking back into it. Much more noire. It's also fitting to have the Exile, the "Walking Death of the Force", begin in such a desolate region.

[phiont]

Ah, incorrect about not being able to keep anything from T3's run:

If you gather everything, then SKIP to Peragus, everything that you have will be transferred

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doh!!

 

If you ask me it's a bug that you are prevented from keeping the prologue goodies. As it is, you're forced to backtrack to the medbay once you find a computer spike in the mines just so you can read the treatment report.

[phiont]

Peragus is dead, but in a really spooky kind of way if you bother to investigate what happened.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree that Peragus is an important level. I liked it very much, just not at the very start of the game.

 

I'd have preferred starting the game on the Harbinger just as they are receiving the distress signal from Kreia on the Ebon Hawk. That sequence could have served as a prologue concluding with the player passing out from the medical treatment.

 

As it is, the player starts the game investigating the Peragus massacre through logs and, just as things are becoming a bit clear, the setting for another massacre with all new logs to read parks itself at the facility. Overkill... (pun intended )

[Janson]

I liked Peragus II more than Taris, because the latter seemed to drag on too long, not the former.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Indeed, when replaying Peragus, the whole level can be done really quite quickly - especially if you fast-forward through all the holologs like I do

 

But Taris, there's no easy way round running along those endless corridors.

[D.C.]

I'm a big fan of both Taris and Telos, but I especially love the creepy sort of atmosphere you get at Peragus - unravelling the mystery on what went on there while more events unfold. So I would have to say that Peragus is my favourite opening level so far. I also like the damaged Ebon Hawk prolouge.

[Darth Frog]

Indeed, when replaying Peragus, the whole level can be done really quite quickly - especially if you fast-forward through all the holologs like I do

 

Indeed, you don't have to watch any holovids at all nor do you have to kill any enemies except for the HK and the final detachment of Sith (for which you get to use a fine laser cannon unless you prefer close and personal work after boarding, for the XP).

 

What you have to do is:

- use computer to open morgue door, loot plasma burner and chat with Kreia

- run to admin central, pull lever (don't forget to loot vibro blade and T3 parts)

- controlling T3: open one door with security, use part/spike from Ebon Hawk on console to open fuel depot door (there are other sources but this is quickest)

- still controlling T3: race past angry droids and use console to open admin escape hatch

- run through mining tunnels, shut down containment fields, run to lift

- run through HK level, destroy console, run to exit

- go for a smoke while the Harbinger cutscene plays

- run through dormitories, destroy console, take lift

- pick up Kreia and Atton, flatten HK

- jog to Harbinger nav comp, download stuff, exit Harbinger through fuel pipe

- pick up 'secret' stash and T3

- jog past some droids, disable three mines (run through them or use spell)

- use console to disable force field, jog past droids to the lift

- jog past droids to the console that T3 used earlier, open Hangar 25 door

- make your way to the decont console (6 mines), use or destroy decont console

- board Ebon Hawk, shoot Sith

 

That's all, takes but a few minutes. Quick and easy if you have Force Speed, Energy Resistance and perhaps Stun Droid (for disabling mines without losing VP). But not at all comparable to Taris.

 

Note: you'll hit level 2 after pulling the lever on admin but level 3 will take a while (since you get XP only from destroying consoles etc.) and I don't think that you will get level 4 unless you consume some of the courtesy critters. But Atton and Kreia will do that anyway while you are busy.

[nixion]

Taris, you spented like 5 hours there which is good of course

[dufflover]

What you have to do is:

- use computer to open morgue door, loot plasma burner and chat with Kreia

- run to admin central ...

- controlling T3: open one door...

- still controlling T3: race past ...

- run through ...

- run through ...

- go for a smoke while the Harbinger cutscene plays

- run through ...

- pick up Kreia and Atton, flatten HK

- jog to ...

- pick up 'secret' stash and T3

- jog past ...

- use console to disable force field, jog past ...

- jog past ...

- make your way to the decont console (6 mines), use or destroy decont console

- board Ebon Hawk, shoot Sith

 

Notice all the repetitive running in that....

Taris may also have some running through (yes, too bad no force speed), but at least the extra time spent on Taris has some variety, conversations, NPC interaction + with each other

"You lost your lightsaber?"

, doing the duels, etc.

 

Endire Spire Tutorial vs. T3 Ebon Hawk Tutorial: K2 tutorial is much better - boring yes, but a very good tutorial nonetheless. K1 tutorial was also good overall though, and integrating it into a party member instructor was good creativity.

 

Again, I think Taris was the better Intro world cos players can explore the game capabilities where as in Peragus there's only one non-wacko person to talk to.

[phiont]

Crazy idea: Has anyone tried to complete the game with the minimum amount of XP possible?

 

Come to think of it there a lots of ways to avoid XP.

- side-stepping a lot of hostiles in stealth,

- paying 2000 Credit for a bad reputation with the Exchange on NS,

- running past the Red Eclipse to their leader in the communications room,

- don't repair T3,

- no side quests,

- etc.

 

Your character would end up kind of gray with minimal cash, skills and inventory.

Could be quite a challenge and over quickly, too.

[Darth Frog]

Crazy idea:  Has anyone tried to complete the game with the minimum amount of XP possible?

 

Come to think of it there a lots of ways to avoid XP.

- side-stepping a lot of hostiles in stealth,

- paying 2000 Credit for a bad reputation with the Exchange on NS,

- running past the Red Eclipse to their leader in the communications room,

- don't repair T3,

- no side quests,

- etc.

 

I have considered doing a min-XP run or a quick run, and I will try both at least with Peragus to see where it leads. Interestingly, there is actually some overlap with the tactics for a max-XP run.

 

Examples: In a min-XP or quick run you jog through the dormitories without bothering the droids. In a max-XP run you jog through the dormitories without bothering the droids, but you come back later with Kreia in tow to have her watch you bothering each droid individually and personally.

 

Quick runs and min-XP runs are fun because the different 'objective' function requires approaches that are different from normal and munchkin playthroughs. Also, there tend to be more difficult situations because your character has fewer abilities and less equipment; in some cases you may have to balance the time/XP penalty for obtaining a certain item/power/ability vs. the difficulty of progressing the main quest without said item/power/ability.

 

P.S.: there is enough difference between quick runs (a la QdQ - Quake done quick) and min-XP runs to make them interesting in their own right. For example, in a min-XP run you would have T3 clear away the droids in the fuel depot, because any XP he gets at that point is 'free' and does not transfer to the main character, but if you don't do this then Atton and T3 will likely drop some of the droids when you pass the area coming from the Harbinger later. In a quick run you would have T3 roll straight to the console, open the fuel depot door and race him past the droids, because it does not matter if Atton and T3 have their fun with some of the droids when you come from the Harbinger later.

[Jedi Valius]

Telos + Peragus = Too damn long!!!!!

 

It really should be shorter. Taris was an ok opening section for the game (still not Neverwinter Nights where you could just skip the entire starter chapter) but Peragus was too long and first getting off the Citadel Station and then going all the way through the surface level of Telos....

 

Too damn long

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Telos + Peragus = Too damn long!!!!!

 

It really should be shorter.  Taris was an ok opening section for the game (still not Neverwinter Nights where you could just skip the entire starter chapter) but Peragus was too long and first getting off the Citadel Station and then going all the way through the surface level of Telos....

 

Too damn long

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your mixing up prologue and chapter I. Prologue in NwN was the academy. In KOTOR it was the Harbinger and in KOTOR II it was the Ebon Hawk.

 

You gained roughly twice as many levels on Peragus/Telos than on Taris. One good thing about P/T was there wasnt much to be gained from holding levels.

[D.C.]

I like the fact that both games have very different starts...

[Lord Satasn]

both had some nice elements .. but Peragus quickly felt to lonely and since you could easily kill the robots you never felt "scared"..

 

I thought the quests of both places where good! it was cool to discover what happened to the miners and it was cool to try and find a way to rescue Bastila!

 

but the tutorial level "Endar Spire survival" vs "Ebon Hawk repair mission" TSL wins .. it felt really cool to control T3 and repair the flying remains of your former ship

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah ah ah! It's *NOT* your former ship!! :D

 

It's REVAN'S SHIP, *NOT* the Exile's...Be more clear and concsise when you make such statements

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Its not Revans or the Exiles ship....Revan stole it from Davik...who stole it from someone else who stole it from that guy on Nar Shadda....who probably stole it from Rosejdudewhatever ur name is sorry haha

[Rosbjerg]

Rosejdudewhatever .. hmm ..

 

yeah Davik stole it from me .. that filthy ***** **** ******ing *****!

[Kor Qel Droma]

^ At least Davik got his in the end. The Ebon Hawk's been passed around more than my ex-girlfriend...