Darth Jebus Posted February 28, 2005 Posted February 28, 2005 Okay. I can understand there are alot of disappointed people out there regarding their playing experience with K2. I was one of them. And I've posted my concerns in various threads all over these boards in the last couple months. Occasionally, I'll post something in a thread when somebody posts an interesting topic about a SPECIFIC aspect of the game that they felt fell flat (try saying that three times in a row ). For example, someone's concern about world designs, the music, or the portraits are all specific things about the game that were discussed. Stuff like that is cool. But more and more, it just seems like we're getting inundated with threads like this. Wherein the poster just flames OE and launches into a tirade about everything under the sky. And the main theme of his or her rant is just that "THIS GAME SUCKS, AND SO DOES OBSIDIAN!!!" I don't really see how that's good, honest feedback for the devs to even consider. And more to the point, I think the devs have already answered us about our concerns regarding K2. Granted, they may not have answered us directly, but they have answered. And I think it was only a few days ago that Chris Avellone himself took some time out of his schedule to post in various different threads on here about a variety of different issues. Everything from romances to continuity mistakes was addressed by the man himself. AND, more recently the CEO of the company responded in an email to a poster in this thread here about releasing an expansion pack for K2. There's even more info on that in this thread here, where a few people shed a bit more light on the kind of feedback they're getting from the devs in emails and PMs, including what some of the devs are saying on the BioWare boards about K2. So, my longwinded point is this: there is not going to be an expansion pack, and there is not going to be a patch addressing cut scenes or the ending or anything like that unless something has changed that I'm not aware of. The upcoming patch is for the PC version and is supposed to take care of all the technical bugs, as I understand it. What's done is done. I really don't think anything else can be said. I mean, we're all free to post whatever we want to on here, so long as it's not too outrageous, but all of these questions wondering where the devs are or what's going to be done about the state of TSL are redundant IMO. The short answer is, nothing is going to be done about K2 other than a technical patch that will be released soon by LA. Whether we like it or not, our questions have been answered. I know it's kind of a letdown, but what more do you want? I mean, guys the answer is no. And repeating the same criticisms over and over again is not going to change anything depite how strongly we might feel about it. It is after all, a videogame. I hope I don't offend anyone with this, btw.
Volourn Posted February 28, 2005 Posted February 28, 2005 Troll. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Darth Jebus Posted February 28, 2005 Author Posted February 28, 2005 Troll. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Influence Lost: Darth Jebus
Volourn Posted February 28, 2005 Posted February 28, 2005 I'll survive. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
AlanC9 Posted February 28, 2005 Posted February 28, 2005 I wouldn't mind seeing people tone it down a bit. This isn't the same kind of disaster that ToEE was, not at all. But Obsidian made a bunch of huge mistakes, and they deserve to be called on it.
Dehumanizer Posted February 28, 2005 Posted February 28, 2005 I don't think the game sucks, and I have the greatest respect for Obsidian. If I and many people talk about the ending so much, it's because we believe that a brilliant game deserves at least a "good" ending, instead of something awkwardly put together in a couple of days. But, yes, I don't expect LA to finance or even allow Obsidian to make (out of their own pockets) a "bonus content pack". Not only wouldn't it bring them money in the short term (and business suits don't grasp the concept of "long term", "good reputation" and "improved sales for the sequels"), but it would, in a way, be an admission that they partially ruined, due to greed and short-sightedness, what was going to be one of the best RPGs ever. Still, I believe trying was the right thing. And we can always hope... What will the future bring? Well, modders will certainly try to restore part or all of the cut ending, and maybe (one can dream) the droid factory.. Maybe - just maybe - Obsidian could "unofficially" help them - not doing the actual modding work, but at least telling them what they intended for the parts that aren't on the game CDs.
Halo343GS Posted February 28, 2005 Posted February 28, 2005 Okay. I can understand there are alot of disappointed people out there regarding their playing experience with K2. I was one of them. And I've posted my concerns in various threads all over these boards in the last couple months. Occasionally, I'll post something in a thread when somebody posts an interesting topic about a SPECIFIC aspect of the game that they felt fell flat (try saying that three times in a row ). For example, someone's concern about world designs, the music, or the portraits are all specific things about the game that were discussed. Stuff like that is cool. But more and more, it just seems like we're getting inundated with threads like this. Wherein the poster just flames OE and launches into a tirade about everything under the sky. And the main theme of his or her rant is just that "THIS GAME SUCKS, AND SO DOES OBSIDIAN!!!" I don't really see how that's good, honest feedback for the devs to even consider. And more to the point, I think the devs have already answered us about our concerns regarding K2. Granted, they may not have answered us directly, but they have answered. And I think it was only a few days ago that Chris Avellone himself took some time out of his schedule to post in various different threads on here about a variety of different issues. Everything from romances to continuity mistakes was addressed by the man himself. AND, more recently the CEO of the company responded in an email to a poster in this thread here about releasing an expansion pack for K2. There's even more info on that in this thread here, where a few people shed a bit more light on the kind of feedback they're getting from the devs in emails and PMs, including what some of the devs are saying on the BioWare boards about K2. So, my longwinded point is this: there is not going to be an expansion pack, and there is not going to be a patch addressing cut scenes or the ending or anything like that unless something has changed that I'm not aware of. The upcoming patch is for the PC version and is supposed to take care of all the technical bugs, as I understand it. What's done is done. I really don't think anything else can be said. I mean, we're all free to post whatever we want to on here, so long as it's not too outrageous, but all of these questions wondering where the devs are or what's going to be done about the state of TSL are redundant IMO. The short answer is, nothing is going to be done about K2 other than a technical patch that will be released soon by LA. Whether we like it or not, our questions have been answered. I know it's kind of a letdown, but what more do you want? I mean, guys the answer is no. And repeating the same criticisms over and over again is not going to change anything depite how strongly we might feel about it. It is after all, a videogame. I hope I don't offend anyone with this, btw. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Influence Gained: Halo343gs Influence Gained: Halo343gs Influence Gained: Halo343gs Influence Gained: Halo343gs Influence Gained: Halo343gs Influence Gained: Halo343gs Influence Gained: Halo343gs Influence Gained: Halo343gs Influence Gained: Halo343gs Influence Gained: Halo343gs correct. repeating the same criticisms won't help us or obsidian at all. they learn. they probably already have nightmares of it already.
Dehumanizer Posted February 28, 2005 Posted February 28, 2005 Please don't quote a huge post in full to add a short reply, or you'll lose influence with me.
Halo343GS Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 yes we can. can't you people out there see????? obsidian already made the game. wait for KoTOR 3 for the things you want. this is exactly what happened on Halo 2 forums too. PEOPLE! we need to move on...why does eveyrone have to be so upset about 1 lil thing. THE ENDING ><
NeverwinterKnight Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 No, we cannot move on. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yes, we really can.
Aryanne Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 No people are going to flame and will be for the year at least.There are plenty of gamers that havent even bought this game yet.Dont forget all the people waiting for the 50$ price tag to drop to 20$.Just an IDEA though mainly for the forum admins and website designer.Instead of having flames posted in the spoilers,general discussion area, and pc and xbox tech self help forums.Why not make a section strictly for the disgruntled player.That way all the flames are controlled and kept in one area & you guys can delete it at the end of the year. Fiona i know your going to read this
dantivirus Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 yes we can. can't you people out there see????? obsidian already made the game. wait for KoTOR 3 for the things you want. this is exactly what happened on Halo 2 forums too. PEOPLE! we need to move on...why does eveyrone have to be so upset about 1 lil thing. THE ENDING >< <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's not just one thing. Read the other post on the forums. There are plot glitches, bugs, some people can't even get it to run, and so on. Obsidian said they've learned from their mistakes and won't do the same again on NWN2. Great, but what makes them think those people with issues WILL buy NWN2 after the issues they've had with Kotor2? Faith? Trust? Sorry, some people are fresh out. Obsidian took the job and new the time frame, so they are just as much to blame as Lucasarts. I mean it's very frustrating to expect something great, be told by the dev's it's great, by the producer's that it is great, only to get something that is not great, heck, not even finished. The worse part is being told, sorry for the mistakes, we are not going to fix them but we won't do them again, promise! Oh yeah, be sure to buy our next game! So yeah, I understand some peoples frustration and downright anger over these issues. Heck, I'm even upset and I test games for a living so I know the crap that can happen. I can play the game from beginning to end but I still encounter plot glitches, bugs and such. I am dissapointed over the overall way the game turned out when seeing how much more the game could be, or should have been.
Judge Hades Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 Thing is this game made me not even care if there is going to be a KotOR 3, not that I cared much to begin with. I rather they fix KotOR 2 first, then worry about KotOR 3. Especially if they want to get my money. A game is only as good as the support it recieves and the gamers here are demanding FULL SUPPORT! If Obsidian wants to be another Troika, that is their business but we all know what happened to Troika in the end.
Squidget Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 I mean it's very frustrating to expect something great, be told by the dev's it's great, by the producer's that it is great, only to get something that is not great, heck, not even finished. The worse part is being told, sorry for the mistakes, we are not going to fix them but we won't do them again, promise! Oh yeah, be sure to buy our next game! I love it when players ask questions like "Will your game be good?" and expect any answer from the devs other than "Yes." Seriously. After a developer has poured their work life into a game for over a year, do you really expect them to say "Nope, this game actually sucks. Sorry!" KOTOR2 doesn't suck. The majority of the game is a lot of fun, has some great storylines involved, and implements a lot of ideas better than KOTOR did. If the ending is bad then that's a flaw, but it doesn't make the entire game crap. I agree 100% with the original poster. If people have specific issues they should post them and that's fine, but if they just want to say "OMG OBSIDIAN SUX!" then there isn't much need for them to be here at all, IMHO. Feel free to steal this sig.
Halo343GS Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 anyways. why do you judge Obsidian solely just because of KoTOR 2? if you're not...you're rey actinallg like it. if they mess up KoTOR 3, then you have a good reason to not like their games....only if it's the same mistakes
Gargantuan Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 The thing about Troika is that their products didn't sell enough to remain a profitable business, that is a shame. KOTOR 2 is selling well, and has been one of the best selling games in UK recently and in US. I hope Obsidian try harder next time, that their standing within the industry enables them to do so. The sad reality is that they are one of the last remaining RPG developers on the PC side. People will certainly move on, a lot of them tacitly did already, but they will be assuredly more wary of the kind of mishaps and oversights. And it will figure into their future purchases if the market for RPGs flourish again, what with Dragon Age, Oblivion, Gothic 3, Fallout 3, etc. So no more free rides, lol.
Judge Hades Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 anyways. why do you judge Obsidian solely just because of KoTOR 2? if you're not...you're rey actinallg like it. if they mess up KoTOR 3, then you have a good reason to not like their games....only if it's the same mistakes <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am not judging Obsidian on just their first game, but it is not LucasArts first game, and Obsidian are full of veterans that know better. As I said, when they finish KotOR 2, that is when I will look forward to KotOR 3.
Master Dahvernas Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 As much as some don't want to admit... The underlying feeling a lot of gamers are leaving not only TSL with, but OE as a company are... I'm not going to pay $50 to be their beta-testers again. This is in reference to the one e-mail that was posted that basically says (paraphrasing) "We're made a LOT of mistakes... But we're not going to fix them because we've moved onto a new project. You are S-O-L. But don't worry... We'll be sure not to do that on our next game". I'm sorry, but that is basicaly what that e-mail says in no uncertain terms. And you expect people to just "be quiet" about it?! I agree that there is a difference between ranting and constructive criticism, but I really haven't seen that many rants on the boards. I have seen heated discussion, but very few "Obsidian SUXXORS!" posts since most of the ones I have participated in bring up VALID points and why consumers SHOULD demand better for their hard earned dollar.
Zach Morris Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 I don't think TSL sucks. I'd give it a 6.5 out of 10. That might change on my second play through but I need to take a break.
213374U Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 anyways. why do you judge Obsidian solely just because of KoTOR 2? if you're not...you're rey actinallg like it. if they mess up KoTOR 3, then you have a good reason to not like their games....only if it's the same mistakes Uh, because it's their first and only game. What would you suggest we judge them based on? - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Bokishi Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 anyways. why do you judge Obsidian solely just because of KoTOR 2? if you're not...you're rey actinallg like it. if they mess up KoTOR 3, then you have a good reason to not like their games....only if it's the same mistakes Uh, because it's their first and only game. What would you suggest we judge them based on? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Their forum posters. Current 3DMark
Torias Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 pragmatically, there's no hope in hell of the game getting an actual ending, at least through official channels. So petitions and what-not are pointless in that aspect. well written complaining is good though, and necessary. Need a vocal and visible response to stuff like this, or it will be thought of as generally acceptable to end a brilliant game with a sequence of more and more out-landish non-sequiturs. I see the one great hope being a talented mod team, who with some ingenuity, some brilliance and some hard decisions, may be able to take the cut material and insert a real ending into the game, based on what was originally intended. I don't care if it involves npcs being tortured or slaughtered. Even if it was a bright happy corportate ending... as long as it made sense and didn't suddenly dump me alone in the middle of nowhere, without my friends.
Dehumanizer Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 that's fine, but if they just want to say "OMG OBSIDIAN SUX!" then there isn't much need for them to be here at all, IMHO.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Saying "OMG OBSIDIAN SUX!" just means you are an immature brat. But asking LA to allow Obsidian to finish the game isn't the same thing as that.
Exertim Posted March 1, 2005 Posted March 1, 2005 Its done folks. We're going to have to hope and pray the modders will come out with something - I for one will buy future Obsidian products. They're a new company that was given the task to create a sequal to a game that was awesome and unmatched when it came to Star Wars RPG, so I believe they had alot of pressure on them. We've all seen what Obsidian is capable of (If you haven't seen the old ending, it was brilliant - real shame it had to be cut), and I'm confident they'll do a much better job on their next game.
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