A Plea to Lucasarts/Obsidian

[Vyperhand]

I'm curious, but did you get this sort of thing when you finished the game?

 

Because I got it and I liked it.

 

No - I got no cut or splashscreens at the end at all.

 

After the convo with Kreia, I flew off into a nebula, roll credits.

 

nothing after the credits.

 

That whole ending scenes thing was just not done as far as I could tell.

 

Edited: toned myself down a notch

[SoulSwindler]

I'm curious, but did you get this sort of thing when you finished the game?

 

Because I got it and I liked it.

 

No - I got no cut or splashscreens at the end at all.

 

After the convo with Kreia, I flew off into a nebula, roll credits.

 

nothing after the credits.

 

That whole ending scenes thing was just not done as far as I could tell.

 

Edited: toned myself down a notch

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I didn't get splash screens either...hmm..maybe my second play through...though I don't think I should HAVE to beat it another time to try and get the full story of what happens...luckily I love Starwars, will probably play through half a dozen times and enjoy slashing people with burning fire sticks...I feel bad for the average joe who spends a month playing on and off to finally be utterly lost in the end.

[Judge Hades]

I am not going to buy a game and hope that it is supported. I learned that lesson with ToEE. I am not going to buy KotOR 2 or any freaking game from anyone until I know for 100% certainty that the game is going to be supported. That means doing more than putting up a tech support forum, Obsidian. DO SOMETHING TO HELP PEOPLE WITH THEIR PROBLEMS.

 

Until I see a level of support that makes me comfortable and secure in buying the computer I am not going to waste money.

[Laozi]

you could do a voice over saying you found a new jedi order.  you could have a voice over saying you took the mantle of Darth.  You could have a voice over saying you Visas and the Handmaiden got together and had hot 3way action because there IS NO RESOLUTION OF ANY KIND, other than with Kreia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Couldnt agree more.

 

It kinda takes away from the story. At least ESB ended with the the characters talking to each other and resolving some of issues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

What the hell are you talking about? Did you even see ESB no one was like *Well I'm going to go find out if Vader is Lukes father." No one knew if Han would live or not, infact Lucas didn't know for awhile. You people who complain about the ending being too opened are full of crap. If they gave you closure in the second act why have a third?

[nightcleaver]

I can't say what the problem is for other people, and I don't really have a problem myself; but people are missing the heart of the problem, I think. They just keep arguing and throwing their hot-headed opinions everywhere. Maybe people will never understand what the problem is.

 

Eh, I guess that's why I've taken such a personal interest in this...

[Sabahattin Dere]

How can you know that the ending was what the devs. did last? Perhaps games aren't put together 'chronologically'?

[Bokishi]

How can you know that the ending was what the devs. did last? Perhaps games aren't put together 'chronologically'?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agreed. In fact a good technique for writing a story is to come up with an ending and plot how you will get to that ending.

[213374U]

What the hell are you talking about? Did you even see ESB no one was like *Well I'm going to go find out if Vader is Lukes father." No one knew if Han would live or not, infact Lucas didn't know for awhile. You people who complain about the ending being too opened are full of crap. If they gave you closure in the second act why have a third?

And why are you assuming there is going to be a third? Last time I checked, the K3 design staff had been fired.

[Ostkant]

Wait, what is a splashscreen?

[nightcleaver]

with a video game, it's actually MORE difficult to work from beginning to end. All that programming, 40 people working on the project at once that you need to coordinate. No, you do the STORY ahead of time.

[Ludozee]

I know nothing about this business, so there are probably a dozen reasons why this plea is completely unfeasible, but I'm going to ask this anyway.

 

Take your time, delay the PC release and fix the ending.  Make the final act of the game as good as the other acts we so lovingly played through.  I doubt you can have it done by February 2005, but thats fine.  Delay it till March or May or whenever.  Then go back, and release the new ending as an X-box Live Content Update for X-Box users, like Bioware did with Yavin for the first game. 

 

There's nothing wrong with making a mistake.  We all do.  Just please try and fix it.  This was a fantastic game for the first 38 hours of gameplay.  Give the fans an ending we can be proud of.  If you need to leave it open-ended for another sequel, thats fine, but even the Empire Strikes Back had closure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why should they change the ending for the PC version? the majority of the PC gamers haven't played it yet, so they don't know the ending. Perhaps we are gonna like it very much, perhaps not, but I (and a lot of other PC gamers) want to judge that for ourselves.

Your intentions are good, but not necessary.

[Judge Hades]

Spoilers have been leaked.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

I don't think it is so much the ending that people, like me, are complaining about, it's more like the whole last level.

 

No spoilers: But on the last level you have characters doing things that makes no sense and the dying and bringing back to life of something you thought was dead. I actually have come to terms with the ending but it's the whole last level that confuses me.

[Ulicus]

you could do a voice over saying you found a new jedi order.  you could have a voice over saying you took the mantle of Darth.  You could have a voice over saying you Visas and the Handmaiden got together and had hot 3way action because there IS NO RESOLUTION OF ANY KIND, other than with Kreia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Couldnt agree more.

 

It kinda takes away from the story. At least ESB ended with the the characters talking to each other and resolving some of issues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

What the hell are you talking about? Did you even see ESB no one was like *Well I'm going to go find out if Vader is Lukes father." No one knew if Han would live or not, infact Lucas didn't know for awhile. You people who complain about the ending being too opened are full of crap. If they gave you closure in the second act why have a third?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I am sick of people using ESB as a comparison. This story is *not* a continuation of KotOR, despite what people say- it is a new story that occurs after. The KotOR series is *NOT* (or rather, SHOULD NOT be) like this:

 

KotOR1: A New Hope

KotOR2: Empire Strikes Back

KotOR3: Return of the Jedi

 

KotOR was NOT like "A New Hope", it was a homage to the ENTIRE trilogy. The ending was like A New Hope in that they got medals, it was also like Return of the Jedi in that they had actually saved the galaxy (unless they damned it).

 

Think about it- you have the first act which is all about the introduction of the characters and resucing the "princess" Bastila on Taris. THAT IS A NEW HOPE.

 

Then you have the protagonist's development as a Jedi, with a huge revelation relating to the big bad and one of the characters being captured. THAT IS EMPIRE.

 

Then you have the final act, whereby the protagonist reaches the end of his journey (for good or ill)- is tempted by the dark side, conquers it (or is seduced) and goes on to beat the big bad in an epic duel. THAT IS RETURN OF THE JEDI.

 

Arrghhhh. It just really annoys me that people dismiss KotOR as "A New Hope" when it's the entire friggin trilogy.

 

Nothing can excuse the fact that KotOR2 has no real conclusion, it should work as a game into itself. As it happens, I quite like what I've read of the story (now anyway) but the ending, if it is in any way as it has been described on spoiler forums is very poor and seems to indicate that the developers have bought into the idiotic idea that KotOR1 was just representative of A New Hope, thus giving them an excuse to create a half hearted ending.

 

It would be like saying "Ok, that's the end of KotOR1" after the first duel with Malak. Ridiculous- they're games, not movies- you invest time in them and expect some form of rewarding conclusion as opposed to being forced to wait for three years (or a year) for the answers. In movies it's ok, its part of the medium and you've only put in about 2/3 hours of your time.

 

I know this appears to be a rant at Obsidian and I suppose it is kind of, I still have a great deal of respect for them and like I said, from what I've read of the actual "journey" of the story- the game seems to be pretty awesome I'm just really disappointed with what I've heard about the ending.

 

*Whoa, lots of writing*

 

Anyway, that is all- sorry to have bored you.

[Ludozee]

Sorry for crosspost, but this has been moved to spoilerforum, so I post it again here:

Now I'm wondering...

A lot of people are bashing (or flaming) Obsidian for having rushed the game and including so many bugs and all. Where is Obsidians reaction to all those rants? Don't they want to defend themselves? Sometimes I see a green name in the bottom of the screen, but no-one reacts. Is this official company policy or what? If they don't say anything, people will asume their silence is a confession of guilt.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Judge Hades]

Perhaps they know that those who are complaining are right.

[cewekeds]

Didn't you save they save the galaxy in both "A New Hope'

"Return of the Jedi"

 

KOTOR are different stories but also the same. I liked the ending for the most part. You learned whats going to happen to everyone in your party. Which you had no clue in KOTOR. Maybe adding a scene droping off your crew would have been good idea. Or jumping on another ship to travel alone.

[Muad'Dib]

What the hell are you talking about? Did you even see ESB no one was like *Well I'm going to go find out if Vader is Lukes father." No one knew if Han would live or not, infact Lucas didn't know for awhile. You people who complain about the ending being too opened are full of crap. If they gave you closure in the second act why have a third?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Excuse me for saying so Laozi but that is a fairly unthought out statement to make considering KotOR has never been established as a trilogy in terms of storyline.

 

While the devs have continously referred to a comparison with ESB it has been done so for the overall atmosphere or darker nature of the story, not because it was the middle part of the story.

 

When you come to think of it, KotOR 2 only uses the story of the original as a backdrop for its own, it does not continue it.

 

I am in full agreement that KotOR 2's ending is disappointing and unfulfilling. Even in ESB you knew where the ending was going, with Lando and Chewie going after Han and scheduling a meeting with Luke there when he arrives later as they agree in their chat before the Falcon jets off.

 

Since this is not a trilogy, I like many others feel this game should have had closure to the story and the characters. The devs can always come up with something for a third installment and like I've said many times before, unless the 3rd game actually makes the party with both the Exile and Revan and mixes these crews, there will be no linking between the 3 games to make one cohesive trilogy, especially if like in this game, the devs opt to make a brand new PC and party altogether.

 

From what I understand the ending here is completely vague. I recall the first previews saying you'd learn Revan's fate, well apparently not so from what this ending delivers. There were mentions that you find out what happens to all your party members after the game ends...also up for debate considering some postings I've seen.

 

And it is very presumptious to assume a 3rd game will give any resolution at all to the entire story. This game's ending has drawn a lot of comparisons to the ending of Planetscape: Torment...with that in mind, was there ever a Planetscape: Torment 2 which brought resolution to that story? Because if there was I never heard of it and that storyline and characters just went up in smoke staying with their open-ending. And that to me, completely ruins the story of the game, so unless a KotOR 3 really forges a bridge between the first two games, and brings a conlcusion to the entire story (Which I doubt) then KotOR 2's ending will remain unstisfying and pointless.

 

Oh and if you really believe they are using the OT to draw parallels with the KotOR games then that would mean KotOR 3 would be a counterpart to RotJ which would make it the worst of all 3. The concept of an Ewok equivalent in KotOR frightens me in levels I never thought possible, and also using the Star Forge 2...God that would seal the coffin in KotOR at least for me.

 

Just my two cents.

[Oberon]

Thats alot more than 2 cents.... anyways

 

Wrapping up the story is, I agree, doubftul. Even if there is a KoTOR 3, God willing. There are way to many possibilities now with what could have happened with Revan and the Exile. To make another story that branches off and also finishes off the loose ends would be extremely hard to make. They would end up making people unhappy again with how the game ended anyways. There would be people saying thats not what should have happened or thats not how it went. Its always hard to make an ending for RPGs becaue they always end up leaving somone unhappy.

 

And whats wrong with Return of the Jedi? It had the best star wars saber duel ever imo, the last one between Vader and Luke, may not have been the fanciest but it had the most feel to it.

[bodrock]

Didn't you save they save the galaxy in both "A New Hope'

"Return of the Jedi" 

 

KOTOR are different stories but also the same.  I liked the ending for the most part. You learned whats going to happen to everyone in your party. Which you had no clue in KOTOR. Maybe adding a scene droping off your crew would have been good idea. Or jumping on another ship to travel alone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Seriously! And there are those who probably killed Bastilla, and yet, she would appear in the LS ending regardless. But to digress from the topic title even further, I thought that playing through the LS, then DS made for one of the best RPG experiences I've had in recent memory. the Dark Side felt especially evil, having already experienced the goodness of going Light.....especially for the endgame decision.

[Muad'Dib]

Thats alot more than 2 cents.... anyways

 

Wrapping up the story is, I agree, doubftul. Even if there is a KoTOR 3, God willing. There are way to many possibilities now with what could have happened with Revan and the Exile. To make another story that branches off and also finishes off the loose ends would be extremely hard to make. They would end up making people unhappy again with how the game ended anyways. There would be people saying thats not  what should have happened or thats not how it went. Its always hard to make an ending for RPGs becaue they always end up leaving somone unhappy.

 

And whats wrong with Return of the Jedi? It had the best star wars saber duel ever imo, the last one between Vader and Luke, may not have been the fanciest but it had the most feel to it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree that it would be a large undertaking to wrap things up in a third installment. It wouldn't be impossible, if part 3 were to bring a conclusion to the story they'd have to make a great variety of alternate paths to different endings so that everyone would eventually see the ending they wanted. It's not as much a difficult process as it would be time consuming, to put in so many variations would keep the game in development for an extended period of time than it would if it were to get the same old lame 1 ending for LS and 1 for DS. Which btw, it was hinted by the devs that there were more than just 1 ending in each side in TSL, the fact that there isn't is also a big source of disappointment.

 

As to what's wrong with RotJ...well this of course is subjective to your tastes. Personally, I feel about RotJ the same way many people feel about TPM. Of all SW movies (Except 3 which I haven't seen yet) RotJ is the second worst SW movie for me just behind Ep1, and Ep1 at least has some redeeming things for me (Maul, Qui-Gon and Duel of the Fates). The only thing I like about RotJ was Yoda and Vader being redeemed that's it, pretty much everything else I disliked. For me the best and only truly good saber duel in the entire OT was the battle between Luke and Vader in ESB. Don't think I'm criticizing your view of RotJ, this is how I feel about it, I'm glad you liked it.

[Judge Hades]

RotJ was weaker but had some good moments. The emperor's throne room battle, C3PO's antics, and the space battle was pretty keen. The best thing about the whole movie was Carrie Fisher in the slave girl clothes (or lack thereof). :D

[AlanC9]

And there are those who probably killed Bastilla, and yet, she would appear in the LS ending regardless.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm pretty sure Bastila doesn't show in the end cutscene if she's dead.

 

@Muad'Dib -- I liked the PS:T ending, precisely because it was so open-ended. So did others.

[Muad'Dib]

Hades: Thanks Leia in slave outfit forgot that one, yep that was pretty good though I like Natalie Portman more than Carrie Fisher. I didn't like the throne room battle sorry, kept getting interrupted by Luke with his search your feelings father discourse so it would bring me out of it every time he switched his darn lightsaber off. The space battle was alright but aside from one very brief sequence where a Nebulon-B Frigate and a Star Destroyer exchange fire, there wasn't any capital shop warfare so for me that space battle is extremely disappointing. C-3PO always was cool for me so I'll give you that also. But there is too much I dislike about RotJ over the very few things I like to feel differently about the movie. Sorry.

 

AlanC9: I'm glad you like that kind of ending, I'm a little suprised you like that the character ends up in nothing but maybe that's your thing. However I don't, to me there's nothing worse that you can do to a story than to leave it unfinished. It is disappointing and makes me feel like the entire journey was completely pointless since there's no resolution at all for the story or for my character. Again, just the way I feel about it, glad you enjoyed it so much. But I much would have preferred having more endings in there so for those that wanted the open ending could get it while those that wanted closure could get that as well. Adds replayability imo when you know you can get a different ending in another playthrough which doesn't involve alignment and aren't going to end up unsatisfied or empty because your character ended in limbo at the end of a supposedly epic journey.

[EnderAndrew]

The best part of RoTJ is when Luke forgot he was a whiny Skywalker and showed some cajones to Jabba.