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Ukraine Conflict - Those who can win a war well can rarely make a good peace and those who could make a good peace would never have won the war


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21 hours ago, Malcador said:

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/nato-societies-must-be-ready-war

 

Lot of articles from all over about how war with Russia is real soon. Although apparently Russia has been knocked back 18 years as well.

 

He has a lot of good arguments, how Putin might do it. The goal is not the all out war against NATO, but doing something, that would be very probable to make some big players to not respond to the invocation of Article 5, which if he could achieve, would make the NATO useless overnight.

 

 

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@Malcador

Dont you remember what we  all thought  before the invasion of Ukraine? 

"Of course Putin wont invade  Ukraine, no chance of that. Stupid Western intelligence,  they always lie ...remember WMD  in Iraq " ...and look what happened   

We cant assume anything when it  comes to Putins  warmongering and  nationalism

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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16 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

@Malcador

Dont you remember what we  all thought  before the invasion of Ukraine? 

"Of course Putin wont invade  Ukraine, no chance of that. Stupid Western intelligence,  they always lie ...remember WMD  in Iraq " ...and look what happened   

We cant assume anything when it  comes to Putins  warmongering and  nationalism

Really tired of this line of thought, Ukraine is not NATO so it's a case of dealing with NATO supplied weapons versus dealing with NATO troops. Invading a part of Finland seems a pretty high risk test as they have to hope NATO decides driving them out is enough as opposed to wrecking tonnes of stuff. Assuming Finland alone can't stop them anyway.

But any alarmism is justified if we can use the invasion. Good luck doing that for conscription as I see some articles talking about (conveniently by guys who won't serve). 

Just a lot of conditions need to occur for this to take place. Well that and some assume this is some game where Russia takes Ukraine fully and that's not going to hamper them in future. 

 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

@Malcador

Dont you remember what we  all thought  before the invasion of Ukraine? 

"Of course Putin wont invade  Ukraine, no chance of that. Stupid Western intelligence,  they always lie ...remember WMD  in Iraq " ...and look what happened

Not all of us.

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12 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

According to The Times Zaluzhny was asked to resign, told he'd be fired when he refused but wasn't due to Syrsky and Budanov refusing the post (plus push back from allies).

Should pretty much tell you how much money is being laundered in Ukraine.

"because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP

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23 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

According to The Times Zaluzhny was asked to resign, told he'd be fired when he refused but wasn't due to Syrsky and Budanov refusing the post (plus push back from allies).

This most likely means that Zelensky is under increasing pressure to plan the presidential election and is starting to getting rid of potential competition. 
He needs Zaluzhny out as soon as possible so that his popularity has time to fade.

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4 hours ago, pmp10 said:

This most likely means that Zelensky is under increasing pressure to plan the presidential election and is starting to getting rid of potential competition. 
He needs Zaluzhny out as soon as possible so that his popularity has time to fade.

This is a tough one for me. It is indisputable that Zelenskiy has done a huge amount for his country, including personal sacrifices amounting to putting his and his family's lives on the line. But in a democracy, the people have the right to and can kick him out of office, as incredibly unfair as that may be.

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I don't get how anyone can expect them to do elections under those circumstances. They are at war, lol.

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"only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."

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Strong western backing for Zaluzhny seems a bit odd when they spent a couple of months blaming him for the 'counter'offensive failing due to not being NATO enough. You're probably not meant to think about that implication too deeply though- see other excuses like it failing due to the Russians unfair conduct in not retreating(!) or the presence of undergrowth.

Given the timing my immediate thought was that Zelensky would blame him for the procurement scandal and use that as an excuse.

3 hours ago, Lexx said:

I don't get how anyone can expect them to do elections under those circumstances. They are at war, lol.

Only reason that elections would be insisted on would be if they wanted to get rid of Zelensky for some reason. 20% of Ukraine's population is held by Russia, 25% is outside Ukraine as refugees; not great circumstances for an election.

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15 hours ago, Lexx said:

I don't get how anyone can expect them to do elections under those circumstances. They are at war, lol.

I wonder how many historical precedents there are of countries holding presidential elections during a war, and of countries not doing that even if they should, according to their schedule.

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12 hours ago, HoonDing said:

Like Bibi, Zelensky needs the horses of war to keep running to stay in power.

Not sure if I understand your comment. Do you mean Zelensky keeps the war on going so he can stay in power? Not sure if joke or serious. 😄

"only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."

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19 hours ago, Lexx said:

I don't get how anyone can expect them to do elections under those circumstances. They are at war, lol.

They can't put it off forever either. 
Given current situation we might see a forever war stretch on for years.

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Well they got the EU money.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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16 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Given the timing my immediate thought was that Zelensky would blame him for the procurement scandal and use that as an excuse.

There's a really good book on Zelensky that's just come out (by Simon Shuster), and it deals quite a lot with the Zelensky / Zaluzhny question. Obviously the book is not the final word on it, but in any case, the whole thing is very complex, and has been for quite some time.

I don't think it's the procurement scandal, except perhaps in the last straw sense.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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5 hours ago, Malcador said:

Well they got the EU money.

Its hard to read intent but you dont  seem happy?  Ukraine needs  funding to continue its defense against the Russian invasion and this aid is  a huge part  of  a successful Ukrainian military strategy 

This is  good news  and well done to   the EU, here   is an updated link about this 

https://www.dw.com/en/eu-leaders-reach-deal-on-50-billion-ukraine-aid-package/live-68140069#:~:text=Just one hour into the,in Brussels in mid-December.

 

 

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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37 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Its hard to read intent but you dont  seem happy?  Ukraine needs  funding to continue its defense against the Russian invasion and this aid is  a huge part  of  a successful Ukrainian military strategy 

This is  good news  and well done to   the EU, here   is an updated link about this 

https://www.dw.com/en/eu-leaders-reach-deal-on-50-billion-ukraine-aid-package/live-68140069#:~:text=Just one hour into the,in Brussels in mid-December.

 

 

I'm not getting the money, so I've no reason to feel either way about it.  Still isn't enough, but I expect the US to clear that up and give Ukraine the cash sooner rather than later. in the meantime, Ukraine's nowhere near collapsing or anything, they even took out a Russian corvette today.

 

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Houthis better not get a hold of these drones.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Zelenskyi’s wife has said few times already, that she does not want him to stay in power in a foreseeable future, and it’s the second time that someone spreads “rumours” about Zaluzhnyi being sacked from his position. And that’s like fifths or sixths article by Times, which is heavily biased against Ukraine. Most of them were refuted in few days later as being influenced by Russian propaganda. And the “rumors” starting to spread at the same time as the “rumours” of PoW’s on shot down plane smells a more like another Russian psyops, than not 🤷‍♂️

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Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH
Latest Let's Play Tales of Arise (completed)
Latest Bossfight Compilation Dark Souls Remastered - New Game (completed)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums and 100% - 29 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

20) Final Fantasy Type-0 - PS4 - 58+ hours

21) Journey - PS4 - 9+ hours

22) Dark Souls II - PS3 - 210+ hours

23) Fairy Fencer F - PS3 - 215+ hours

24) Megadimension Neptunia VII - PS4 - 160 hours

25) Super Neptunia RPG - PS4 - 44+ hours

26) Journey - PS3 - 22+ hours

27) Final Fantasy XV - PS4 - 263+ hours (including all DLCs)

28) Tales of Arise - PS4 - 111+ hours

29) Dark Souls: Remastered - PS4 - 121+ hours

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