The All Things Political Topic - We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office

[Chilloutman]

people care about things which affects them, what a new concept.

[Chairchucker]

38 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

people care about things which affects them, what a new concept.

It's not just 'things which affect them', it's also 'things that affect other well off white people in a completely different country or state.'

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Chairchucker said:

As has been noted, he got sacked because he refused to work, not because he protested. And while people have a right to peacefully protest, what they choose to protest about can tell you about the kind of person they are, and whether they have the kind of values you'd want in someone teaching children. And so, while we can defend his right to peacefully protest, we can also be quietly happy about the fact that his garbage ideology is out of schools.

Additionally, what people have the right to do, legally, doesn't necessarily have any bearing on the rights of their employer. As an extreme example: I have the legal right to publicly criticise my employer, but they then have the right to determine that my continued employment is not in their best interests. Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.

Well that's the point, isn't it? If malaria comes in force to the USA or some other overwhelmingly white and rich country, suddenly people will care about it.

Not sure what bit this is replying to. Is it the bit where I said that the 'Spanish Flu' was first observed in Kansas, or the bit where I implied that monkeypox has been in Africa for ages but didn't really make the news until it went to other, (richer, whiter) continents? Either way, it doesn't make sense as a response.

A couple of things you not aware of about this outrage about the name monkeypox 

Firstly I should have been clearer, my  first paragraph wasnt framed correctly. You right it doesnt make sense. I will go into more detail. When monkeypox was first seen in " white, rich "  countries  (as  you frame  it ) the initial photos of what it looks like were only of black people. So in SA there was the normal race card and knee -jerk reaction from some black people and other commentators  of other races who   said things like " this disease isnt even an African disease, its a white disease that Europeans\Americans  are experiencing. These  photos are clearly  racist and biased  and suggesting that only black people can get it and the monkey name  is racist "

These responses as usual were not based on any facts or understanding of this disease  because firstly the only reason the photos were of black people is because it was initially only found in Africa so thats why most of the photos are of black people. But as we all know and more importantly any disease can effect any race. So the photos should have been irrelevant because thats not the point of how the disease spreads and  its symptoms 

Secondly Africa has got its own  media houses, WHO Africa and Africa CDC. The reality that none of them highlighted this disease, now they are, is not the fault of the media houses in " white, rich " countries. Again to repeat the point, the Western media is not responsible to update Africa about diseases that are spreading within Western countries 

And finally who are these  people that should care? Governments will focus on developments within there country and its the WHO that is considered authoritative  when it comes to global pandemics. And they are doing that now with monkeypox

But as Zora said there are several  uniquely African diseases that are not normally seen outside Africa. Africa WHO and CDC are responsible to inform Africa about this and we dont hear any outrage about this from people outside of Africa when people dont know about these diseases like most of us in SA had never heard of monkeypox or its origins 

But if malaria became mainstream in the US I can guarantee you the US media would highlight this 

So in summary the suggestion that monkeypox is a  racist name is uninformed and ignores the history of this disease and how its spreading throughout the world 

[Chilloutman]

1 minute ago, Chairchucker said:

It's not just 'things which affect them', it's also 'things that affect other well off white people in a completely different country or state.'

damn those evil hwities caring about other white people!

[BruceVC]

https://news.yahoo.com/us-carries-operation-al-qaeda-215802129.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Justice to 9/11 and AQ victims, the  current leader of AQ has been killed in Afghanistan by a strategic US drone strike 

@Gfted1 we have been vindicated again about the usefulness of drones 

 

 

[Gfted1]

31 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

@Gfted1 we have been vindicated again about the usefulness of drones

Looks like they may have used the RX9 munition.

CIA Used Flying Knife Missile to Kill Ayman al-Zawahiri (gizmodo.com)

[BruceVC]

7 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Looks like they may have used the RX9 munition.

CIA Used Flying Knife Missile to Kill Ayman al-Zawahiri (gizmodo.com)

Impressive, it was a very strategic killing. If its true its good to know this can be used in the future 

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

@Gfted1 we have been vindicated again about the usefulness of drones 

There was a question about them ? How many have they been used to kill in the last 20 years ?

[Elerond]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

No thats not accurate, monkeypox origin is Africa and its been around since the 1960's and it is well known to epidemiologists  and virologists who study viruses 

There are lots of diseases that none of us know about because they  haven't been experienced in our country so when monkeypox started being seen in Europe and US the Western  media would naturally report on it because its a real disease

After Corona  and the fact we live in a globally connected world I would think that any argument that a diseases is unique to an area is moot when that disease starts spreading 

The most important point is not creating outrage about a name that is 70 years old but rather how do we treat it and how infectious is it 

Technically its origin is in Denmark, as it was first found in monkeys in laboratory in  Copenhagen, Denmark.

With Spanish flu logic (named after ones who first reported about it) it should had been called Danish pox 

[Chairchucker]

1 hour ago, Chilloutman said:

damn those evil hwities caring about other white people!

Some would suggest that it is good to care about the lives of black people, too. You may have heard slogans to that effect, recently.

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

A couple of things you not aware of about this outrage about the name monkeypox 

Firstly I should have been clearer, my  first paragraph wasnt framed correctly. You right it doesnt make sense. I will go into more detail. When monkeypox was first seen in " white, rich "  countries  (as  you frame  it ) the initial photos of what it looks like were only of black people. So in SA there was the normal race card and knee -jerk reaction from some black people and other commentators  of other races who   said things like " this disease isnt even an African disease, its a white disease that Europeans\Americans  are experiencing. These  photos are clearly  racist and biased  and suggesting that only black people can get it and the monkey name  is racist "

These responses as usual were not based on any facts or understanding of this disease  because firstly the only reason the photos were of black people is because it was initially only found in Africa so thats why most of the photos are of black people. But as we all know and more importantly any disease can effect any race. So the photos should have been irrelevant because thats not the point of how the disease spreads and  its symptoms 

Secondly Africa has got its own  media houses, WHO Africa and Africa CDC. The reality that none of them highlighted this disease, now they are, is not the fault of the media houses in " white, rich " countries. Again to repeat the point, the Western media is not responsible to update Africa about diseases that are spreading within Western countries 

And finally who are these  people that should care? Governments will focus on developments within there country and its the WHO that is considered authoritative  when it comes to global pandemics. And they are doing that now with monkeypox

But as Zora said there are several  uniquely African diseases that are not normally seen outside Africa. Africa WHO and CDC are responsible to inform Africa about this and we dont hear any outrage about this from people outside of Africa when people dont know about these diseases like most of us in SA had never heard of monkeypox or its origins 

But if malaria became mainstream in the US I can guarantee you the US media would highlight this 

So in summary the suggestion that monkeypox is a  racist name is uninformed and ignores the history of this disease and how its spreading throughout the world 

Most of that doesn't really seem to actually be remotely relevant to what I was actually saying. I'll just highlight this one bit, though.

"But if malaria became mainstream in the US I can guarantee you the US media would highlight this"

Here's what I'm saying: not just the US media, but also the Australian media, the UK media, etc. As I believe you've already noted, monkeypox has been observed in Africa since the 70s. When the current monkeypox 'outbreak' occurred, it was already all over Nigeria. Then it got to the UK, and suddenly news sources in the USA and Australia (not just the UK) cared enough to report on it. If Australian and US media don't care about diseases that are all over Africa, they don't really have much additional incentive to care about diseases that have hopped the ditch over to Europe. Except, of course, that the UK is a wealthier country, with white, English speaking people in it. Maybe it wouldn't hurt our media to also care when it's Africa being ravaged by disease.

"So in summary the suggestion that monkeypox is a  racist name is uninformed and ignores the history of this disease and how its spreading throughout the world"

Cool. I wasn't talking about that, though.

[BruceVC]

25 minutes ago, Malcador said:

There was a question about them ? How many have they been used to kill in the last 20 years ?

Yes, there is a vociferous and global "anti-drone " view in the world which is well meaning by some and then based on badly informed and naïve views from others. On this forum we have had  some anti-drone views. The global anti-drone view was common until other countries  outside the US started using drones and then suddenly  drones were okay

Here is a link that summarizes this anti-drone view 

https://www.listland.com/10-reasons-the-u-s-should-stop-using-drones-in-warfare/#:~:text=Drones should be banned because they disguise human,they often use them on their own people.

 

[BruceVC]

22 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Technically its origin is in Denmark, as it was first found in monkeys in laboratory in  Copenhagen, Denmark.

With Spanish flu logic (named after ones who first reported about it) it should had been called Danish pox 

Elerond !!! Stop  being racist to Danish people, @Gorth Elerond is suggesting we name a virus after your country, aren't you outraged 

[Chilloutman]

1 minute ago, Chairchucker said:

Some would suggest that it is good to care about the lives of black people, too. You may have heard slogans to that effect, recently.

I 'care' about small amount of people in my life independent on color of their skin. And anyone saying anything else about themself is layer in my eyes. Mind you there might be saints in our word and I applaud to them but I am not and by knowing a bit about myself I often project it on other people. I know its not great but I learned that I am not perfect and I am not trying to be. I don't have problem admitting it. 

 

I for example don't give flying F about whatever is going on in south america. I just don't as it does not affect my sphere of existence. I don't want anything bad happen to anyone but I can care only about those I affect by my own actions. But I don't have capacity to care about 6 billion people.

[Malcador]

29 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Yes, there is a vociferous and global "anti-drone " view in the world which is well meaning by some and then based on badly informed and naïve views from others. On this forum we have had  some anti-drone views. The global anti-drone view was common until other countries  outside the US started using drones and then suddenly  drones were okay

Here is a link that summarizes this anti-drone view 

https://www.listland.com/10-reasons-the-u-s-should-stop-using-drones-in-warfare/#:~:text=Drones should be banned because they disguise human,they often use them on their own people.

 

Going to need some citations on who you're talking about here.  As for drones being okay because non-Americans are using it, I think your persecution complex on behalf of the West (inextricably tied to whiteness as you said on the Kodex) is acting up.  

And the usefulness of drones, or any weapon, is separate from how it's used.  UAVs are very useful, we've seen it in the war in Ukraine, the Azeri-Armenian war, the, heh, "War on Terror".  The US killed al-Zawahiri, they also murdered 10 people in Kabul last year with a drone strike (conveniently no one gets punished for that).

[BruceVC]

24 minutes ago, Chilloutman said:

I 'care' about small amount of people in my life independent on color of their skin. And anyone saying anything else about themself is layer in my eyes. Mind you there might be saints in our word and I applaud to them but I am not and by knowing a bit about myself I often project it on other people. I know its not great but I learned that I am not perfect and I am not trying to be. I don't have problem admitting it. 

 

I for example don't give flying F about whatever is going on in south america. I just don't as it does not affect my sphere of existence. I don't want anything bad happen to anyone but I can care only about those I affect by my own actions. But I don't have capacity to care about 6 billion people.

You being honest and I appreciate that

I do care about other countries and I want them to be stable and prosperous and the citizens happy because then there will be much  less illegal immigration. 

But its governments of every country in the world that are responsible for this, its not the responsibility of other countries unless self-interests are threatened like Putins War and the  destabilization of Ukraine. This has a direct impact to the stability of the EU so the EU and the West will care 

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Going to need some citations on who you're talking about here.  As for drones being okay because non-Americans are using it, I think your persecution complex on behalf of the West (inextricably tied to whiteness as you said on the Kodex) is acting up.  

And the usefulness of drones, or any weapon, is separate from how it's used.  UAVs are very useful, we've seen it in the war in Ukraine, the Azeri-Armenian war, the, heh, "War on Terror".  The US killed al-Zawahiri, they also murdered 10 people in Kabul last year with a drone strike (conveniently no one gets punished for that).

Woah, you using whiteness. Thats deep, what did I say?

[Malcador]

Pelosi's landed in Taiwan - https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/08/02/world/pelosi-taiwan

Unless the Chinese have a cloaking device though, no invasion anytime soon.

 

Edit : Never mind about the jets, they're flying around in Taiwan's ADIZ, so that means nothing.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Malcador

[Sarex]

Guess China blinked.

[Gromnir]

8 hours ago, Chairchucker said:

The article doesn't provide a lot of details; the gentleman claims that the board fed the community lies. I found a separate article where he accuses the board of calling him an 'active participant in the riots'. If this is true and they did that, he might have a defamation case, but probs not a wrongful termination case since they eventually determined that he was in fact in breach of their social media policy, and had also declined to return to work, even though they indicated he would be reassigned elsewhere.

 

self-lawyering all too often results in self-harm and we highly recommend avoiding such conjecture.

regardless, the school board released a single statement to the public stating that teachers got first amendment freedoms which need be observed but the board were nevertheless suspending the teacher and investigating him 'cause o' his reported presence at the Capitol on january 6. turns out the teacher were never at the Capitol-- just some douchey twitter nonsense posted while he were in DC for the stop the steal rally... posts which seemed to advocate insurrection . school board does investigation which clears the teacher o' any actionable malfeasance and tells him he should return to work.

teacher's complaint is two-fold:

1) he wants a public apology to clear his name.

2)the board were wrong to public release info regarding their investigation o' the teacher's january 6 activities.

'ccording to teacher, as a member o' the teacher union collective bargaining agreement provisions, the board were precluded from discussing the matter o' his investigation until he had been provided a process to defend himself. having not read the agreement, we cannot say what is the school board duties. however, as the matter o' the teacher's january 6 activities were a matter o' public interest thanks in large part due to the teacher's questionable social media practices, the rules for board behaviour is likely not as cut-and-dry as teacher's lawyer might claim.

whatever beef the teacher has with the board is largely a contract issue related to his collective bargaining agreement. media pundits latched onto a rando story and skewed the narrative a bit so that it fits whatever is their chosen point o' view, but is less substance to the story than one might assume based on reports from cnn or fox or wherever.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[HoonDing]

I can understand starting a war over a hottie like Helen of Troy. But not over some old hag.

Edited August 2, 2022 by HoonDing

[Malcador]

22 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Guess China blinked.

 

 

[BruceVC]

47 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Pelosi's landed in Taiwan - https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/08/02/world/pelosi-taiwan

Unless the Chinese have a cloaking device though, no invasion anytime soon.

 

Edit : Never mind about the jets, they're flying around in Taiwan's ADIZ, so that means nothing.

She is brave, I wouldnt have gone to Taiwan now. Wait to Putins War is over and the global inflation has subsided then make these types of political statements 

[Hurlshort]

8 hours ago, Chilloutman said:

I don't want anything bad happen to anyone but I can care only about those I affect by my own actions. But I don't have capacity to care about 6 billion people.

I don't think it is as hard to care about 6 (or 7.75 according to Google) billion people as you might think. It'd be rather easy if everybody tried.

[Zoraptor]

12 hours ago, Chairchucker said:

Well that's the point, isn't it? If malaria comes in force to the USA or some other overwhelmingly white and rich country, suddenly people will care about it.

Oh yeah, I'm certainly not disagreeing with that.

I'd far rather see any media attention on the 'racism' aspect being used to illustrate deadlier diseases than monkeypox though, as it really is pretty small fry (and as previous, does have a mostly effective vaccine available too).

[Bartimaeus]

57 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

I don't think it is as hard to care about 6 (or 7.75 according to Google) billion people as you might think. It'd be rather easy if everybody tried.

I wrote out the following post, but am now prefacing it with this: it would probably be useful to define what you think "caring" about something actually means, because the particular way you conceptualize what that functionally means in your day-to-day life has to play a pretty big role in determining the things you feel you do or don't care about.

It's impossible to even remotely conceptualize that many people. I'm pretty sure there's a reason reading a headline like "young girl tragically killed in car accident" while attaching a face to the headline is much more likely to get our attention and an actual empathetic reaction compared to "294 children among thousands of dead because of extreme flooding" with a generic picture of the flood in question. One person suffering is tangible and digestible, getting into even the hundreds or thousands just becomes an incomprehensible statistic...at least not without some direct visual aid (e.g. 9/11...but that is obviously extremely traumatic and almost certainly unhealthy to experience the brunt of, particularly repeatedly*). If by "care" you meant able to offer up a very basic feeling of "that sucks" when something terrible happens to [whomever], okay, but that feels hard to really qualify as proper caring - those people didn't exist to me before I learned whatever it was that happened to them, and they're not going to exist for any longer than probably an hour after in the vast majority of cases either, even given a normal sympathetic reaction. Chilloutman already said they don't want bad things to happen to anybody anywhere, so if that's the level of "caring" that you're talking about, it seems like they pretty much already expressed it (...even if it was less than diplomatically said).

*I wonder what psychologists have to say about the health of caring about things that are beyond your control. Is there any value whatsoever to anybody, least of all yourself, in trying to care about stuff happening on the other side of that planet that you can do practically nothing about?

Edited August 2, 2022 by Bartimaeus