Ukraine Conflict - "Only the dead have seen the end of war."

[Malcador]

https://geopolitics-decanted.simplecast.com/episodes/analysis-of-the-war-in-ukraine-may-15-2022

Bit of a long listen at an hour, but was an interesting discussion, well, at least from Kofman. 

[Mamoulian War]

Ukrainian soldiers reached Russian border northeast of Kharkiv, and according to British intelligence, Russia has lost one third of all the servicemen, assigned for invasion (probably counting all servicemen unable to fight, not only the dead ones).

[Raithe]

You know it's serious when... BBC - McDonald's to leave Russia

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, Raithe said:

You know it's serious when... BBC - McDonald's to leave Russia

There goes the American embassy...

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, rjshae said:

There goes the American embassy...

Who would Australia have to invade to make them leave Australia?...

[Gorth]

I guess it would happen... eventually.  An impressive defensive feat though

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61461805

Ukraine's defence ministry says 264 fighters have left the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol and been taken to areas held by Russian-backed rebels

[Agiel]

I suppose in that instance Thomas Friedman's "McPeace" theory of international relations holds true.

[Zoraptor]

"Ukraine's defence ministry said that 264 defenders of the Azovstal plant in Mariupol had been evacuated to separatist-held territory in Ukraine's breakaway Donbas region"

You can just say 'surrendered', Ukrainian Ministry of Defence, that's what it is when you're evacuated to enemy held territory. They're POWs who are going to be exchanged for other POWs, who also surrendered.

56 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I guess it would happen... eventually.  An impressive defensive feat though

Probably isn't quite over yet. Ukraine was claiming ~2000 defenders there fairly recently, and even though that was doubtless an exaggeration I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's another batch to come tomorrow. Not completely out of the question that some refuse to surrender too.

[xzar_monty]

I hope this is not true. If it is, it takes a kind of unprofessionalism to new levels, again.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/16/putin-involved-russia-ukraine-war-western-sources

[Gorth]

7 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

I hope this is not true. If it is, it takes a kind of unprofessionalism to new levels, again.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/16/putin-involved-russia-ukraine-war-western-sources

He's not exactly a Zhukov or a Konev

 

Edit: Not that either gave a damn about the losses they suffered in the process, but they had results to show for it.

[Darkpriest]

It's sometimes interesting to read PoV of Russian leaning publicists, who conviniently leave aside or barely comment corruption, sick nepotism, lack of qualifications and brain among russian chain of command, plus **** discipline among soldiers, they do however point a few interesting things in that grandoise of Russia type of writing

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-death-thousand-cuts-where-wests-ukraine-strategy

[xzar_monty]

That article describes Lavrov as "a diplomatic master", which instantly gives the whole thing the seal of ultimate credibility.

I hope you're all aware that I'm a chess grandmaster and a master chef. I mean, I know the rules of chess and I can cook my own food.

Edited May 17, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Chilloutman]

36 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

It's sometimes interesting to read PoV of Russian leaning publicists, who conviniently leave aside or barely comment corruption, sick nepotism, lack of qualifications and brain among russian chain of command, plus **** discipline among soldiers, they do however point a few interesting things in that grandoise of Russia type of writing

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-death-thousand-cuts-where-wests-ukraine-strategy

 

''The latter, in turn, have been totally baffled by Russia’s C4ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Computers, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) capabilities, coupled with the stunning inefficiency of their own constellation of Javelins, NLAWs, Stingers and Turkish Bayraktar drones.''

 

OK Boomer

[BruceVC]

double post

Edited May 17, 2022 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

It's sometimes interesting to read PoV of Russian leaning publicists, who conviniently leave aside or barely comment corruption, sick nepotism, lack of qualifications and brain among russian chain of command, plus **** discipline among soldiers, they do however point a few interesting things in that grandoise of Russia type of writing

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-death-thousand-cuts-where-wests-ukraine-strategy

You have outdone yourself with this link, its definitely the best example of propaganda and Putin War alternative facts I have ever read. Dont you love the 

Ukraine was never about a military win. What is being accomplished is the slow, painful destruction of the European Union (EU) economy, coupled with extraordinary weapons profits for the western military-industrial complex and creeping security rule by those nations’ political elites.

Its so true except for the fact the EU and NATO are more united than ever before with a country like Sweden close to joining NATO after being militarily neutral for the last 200 years or so. I was just expecting the article to say something like " and we all know the Moskva was not sunk and sails proudly on the Black Sea " 

The end of Putins War will not be decided by the West but the Ukrainians who are emboldened  by the Russian military incompetence  and war crimes. Because they have the military advantage at the moment it will take more for them to agree to peace terms than in the early days of the invasion where many of us assumed Russia would defeat the Ukrainians in a few weeks

But thanks for the link, it provided a great laugh 

 

[xzar_monty]

This is something quite extraordinary and highly recommended. I wonder if a change of some kind is happening or about to happen inside Russia, as far as the war in Ukraine is concerned. Look at what this fellow says.

(I have seen that female presenter / TV personality before, during this same war. She is, quite frankly, frightening. What I mean by this is that any professional on any TV channel should maintain at least a semblance of impartiality, for the cause of journalistic integrity. That should be a given in her profession, as absolute as the fact that a medical doctor will not talk about his patients' problems in public. I understand you can perhaps see something similar on Fox News and worse, but I've never watched Fox News so I don't know of any examples.)

 

[xzar_monty]

And here's another interesting piece of information. Particularly relevant against the claim that "actually Russia isn't doing that much damage and most of all, it makes an effort to limit the damage it causes". Sure it does, sure it does.

Of course it's still true that Russia is not going all in. But this means very little.

 

[Darkpriest]

18 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

You have outdone yourself with this link, its definitely the best example of propaganda and Putin War alternative facts I have ever read. Dont you love the 

Ukraine was never about a military win. What is being accomplished is the slow, painful destruction of the European Union (EU) economy, coupled with extraordinary weapons profits for the western military-industrial complex and creeping security rule by those nations’ political elites.

Its so true except for the fact the EU and NATO are more united than ever before with a country like Sweden close to joining NATO after being militarily neutral for the last 200 years or so. I was just expecting the article to say something like " and we all know the Moskva was not sunk and sails proudly on the Black Sea " 

The end of Putins War will not be decided by the West but the Ukrainians who are emboldened  by the Russian military incompetence  and war crimes. Because they have the military advantage at the moment it will take more for them to agree to peace terms than in the early days of the invasion where many of us assumed Russia would defeat the Ukrainians in a few weeks

But thanks for the link, it provided a great laugh 

 

As I said, it sometimes is quite surpriaing what is the level of mind bending that some publicists go through. 

 

This is the original publication.

https://thecradle.co/Article/columns/10277

I understand that ZHs policy is to gather all sorts of PoV, but sometimes the extremes are just too much of 'unreal' 

[xzar_monty]

2 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

This is the original publication.

https://thecradle.co/Article/columns/10277

The author profile on the right mentions that Esocbar is the author of "countless books". As books are my profession, I had to check this out. I may have got it wrong, but apparently "countless" means "seven". That's nothing compared to Stephen King, Joyce Carol Oates, Georges Simenon or, shall we say, "countless" others. It's the little things like this that really add to the credibility of a writer or the website publishing his stuff.

[213374U]

Would that we held every journalist, outlet, commentator and "anonymous source" to those standards.

Heh.

[Elerond]

12 minutes ago, 213374U said:

Would that we held every journalist, outlet, commentator and "anonymous source" to those standards.

Heh.

You don't?

[BruceVC]

12 minutes ago, 213374U said:

Would that we held every journalist, outlet, commentator and "anonymous source" to those standards.

Heh.

I do, I hold every journalist to very high standards of journalistic integrity 

Thats why  you can trust every link I post is the truth 

[Elerond]

96% (188-8) of FInnish Parliament voted for seeking Nato membership

Although Turkey has said that they will block Finland's membership

[BruceVC]

15 minutes ago, Elerond said:

96% (188-8) of FInnish Parliament voted for seeking Nato membership

Although Turkey has said that they will block Finland's membership

Elerond if I said to you  4 months ago,  " Elerond, Finland is going to vote to join NATO and the vote in your parliament is going to be over 90% to join " Im sure you would have said " No chance BruceVC, why would we do that " ?

Its amazing how the security of your country can change things 

I watched this documentary on CNN about these miles of underground tunnels under Helsinki. Their is enough space to house 900K people and  their  are pools and ice-hockey rinks. Incredible feat of engineering...have you been into these tunnels?

https://www.myhelsinki.fi/en/see-and-do/underground-helsinki

 

 

[Elerond]

25 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Elerond if I said to you  4 months ago,  " Elerond, Finland is going to vote to join NATO and the vote in your parliament is going to be over 90% to join " Im sure you would have said " No chance BruceVC, why would we do that " ?

Its amazing how the security of your country can change things 

I watched this documentary on CNN about these miles of underground tunnels under Helsinki. Their is enough space to house 900K people and  their  are pools and ice-hockey rinks. Incredible feat of engineering...have you been into these tunnels?

https://www.myhelsinki.fi/en/see-and-do/underground-helsinki

 

 

Yes it seem that it only changed it to worse direction as it seem that Nato will reject Finland's and Sweden's applications and only result was to vex Russia.

Yes I have been in those tunnels and similar tunnels/shelters in other cities.