Ukraine Conflict - Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine tätige Unwissenheit

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, Lexx said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/06/russian-teacher-shocked-as-she-faces-jail-over-anti-war-speech-pupils-taped

Pretty depressing read, tbh.

These stories are important because it reminds me that the  anger must always be directed towards Putins War and not all Russians because many Russians are opposed to the war and Putins autocratic running of the country 

[xzar_monty]

45 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

It's not impossible that they avoid talking about Soviet failures. It could also be that the people that join the army just didn't do well in school.

Ok, you and @Gorthboth do make a valid point. So, granted: it IS possible to be unaware of this stuff. It's still mind-boggling. An army should know where it's going and what it's doing. After all, it's one of the most famous locations in the world, calamity-wise.

[ComradeYellow]

The Army AND businesses/corporations are hotbeds for sociopaths, it's the only places they can go and be rewarded for their mental illnesses and doesn't really have much to do intellect/education.  I've seen Marines who show more smarts than some college grads.

Anywho....

Russian troops arriving in Kremenets Mountain (South of Izyum), notable for its WW2 monument.  I guess a significant battle took place there.

Strange looking monument...

Also sight to some Polovtsy stone figures dating back to the middle ages.

[Azdeus]

25 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Ok, you and @Gorthboth do make a valid point. So, granted: it IS possible to be unaware of this stuff. It's still mind-boggling. An army should know where it's going and what it's doing. After all, it's one of the most famous locations in the world, calamity-wise.

I've got coworkers that didn't know there's a war in Ukraine. So, yeah.

Swedes. Lives on Tiktok and Instagram, they make me want to put my head underneath a lorry and tell the driver to floor it.

[BruceVC]

18 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

I've got coworkers that didn't know there's a war in Ukraine. So, yeah.

Swedes. Lives on Tiktok and Instagram, they make me want to put my head underneath a lorry and tell the driver to floor it.

Im truly surprised that anyone living in the EU would be unaware about Putins War?

I hope you have reported your coworkers to the Swedish authorities to have them arrested for treason....treason  I tell you !!!

I know @Pidesco will agree with me about this unacceptable ignorance  

[Azdeus]

3 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Im truly surprised that anyone living in the EU would be unaware about Putins War?

I hope you have reported your coworkers to the Swedish authorities to have them arrested for treason....treason  I tell you !!!

I know @Pidesco will agree with me about this unacceptable ignorance  

I'm pretty certain that I am the one more likely to be arrested, for breaking the Law of Jante

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

I'm pretty certain that I am the one more likely to be arrested, for breaking the Law of Jante

What an interesting link, is it true the quote below. What I am asking is how many people believe in Jante and how many people question it? Its such a interesting and ostensibly positive  way of living but I just wonder do the majority of Swedish people believe it ?

In modern Scandinavian society, the law of Jante can be summed up in one of two ways. For those who believe: it is a way of keeping everyone equal, a simple ideal that celebrates modesty and humbleness. But for those who don’t: it’s seen as social control that suppresses individuality

[xzar_monty]

31 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

What an interesting link, is it true the quote below. What I am asking is how many people believe in Jante and how many people question it? Its such a interesting and ostensibly positive  way of living but I just wonder do the majority of Swedish people believe it ?

In modern Scandinavian society, the law of Jante can be summed up in one of two ways. For those who believe: it is a way of keeping everyone equal, a simple ideal that celebrates modesty and humbleness. But for those who don’t: it’s seen as social control that suppresses individuality

I am not Swedish, but the question is very hard to answer. You'd have to conduct a huge poll to find out. Obviously, you can find some kind of an answer by looking at elections and their results. I would argue that all of Scandinavia is more inclined to the former idea, but even if those supporting the latter idea are not significantly growing in numbers, they are making a lot more noise.

Scandinavia is almost certainly right up there when considering the best places to live in this world. Of course, Russia has very recently changed this idea rather a lot for the worse, but Scandinavia is still right up there. There's this famous "blindness test": you're going to be born into this world. You don't know if you're rich or poor. You don't know if you're a man or a woman. You don't know if you're healthy or if you have some genetic problems. Where would you want to be born? Scandinavia is a good place, as good as any place can be.

[xzar_monty]

German intelligence would seem to confirm that atrocities, such as those in Bucha, are part of a deliberate Russian strategy. There was never much doubt, I would say, but of course it needs to be confirmed. https://www.spiegel.de/politik/butscha-soldaten-besprachen-graeueltaten-gegen-zivilisten-ueber-funk-a-9e01662c-aa7e-4828-bf6f-f662d9b6164e?d=1649315458&sara_ecid=app_upd_903PVrz5TZlGJuLWLqJDVijRko558t&sara_ecid=soci_upd_KsBF0AFjflf0DZCxpPYDCQgO1dEMph

It's curious that we still have people on this forum who post "badass" photos of war criminals, regard alternate narratives as "truth bombs" and seriously talk about "psychotic Russophobia" in the West.

[Malcador]

Zelensky bitching at the UNSC has given a resurgence to people not understanding what the UN Is

 

[kanisatha]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

What an interesting link, is it true the quote below. What I am asking is how many people believe in Jante and how many people question it? Its such a interesting and ostensibly positive  way of living but I just wonder do the majority of Swedish people believe it ?

In modern Scandinavian society, the law of Jante can be summed up in one of two ways. For those who believe: it is a way of keeping everyone equal, a simple ideal that celebrates modesty and humbleness. But for those who don’t: it’s seen as social control that suppresses individuality

I would definitely fall into the category of "don't believe" and also don't accept.

[kanisatha]

6 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Scandinavia is almost certainly right up there when considering the best places to live in this world. Of course, Russia has very recently changed this idea rather a lot for the worse, but Scandinavia is still right up there. There's this famous "blindness test": you're going to be born into this world. You don't know if you're rich or poor. You don't know if you're a man or a woman. You don't know if you're healthy or if you have some genetic problems. Where would you want to be born? Scandinavia is a good place, as good as any place can be.

A valid point, but I would argue almost entirely because the overall population sizes are so very small. People get along with one another and are nicer to one another in small groups (because having shared values and achieving consensus is sooooo much easier). They become downright onery when lumped into large groups.

[xzar_monty]

10 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

A valid point, but I would argue almost entirely because the overall population sizes are so very small. People get along with one another and are nicer to one another in small groups (because having shared values and achieving consensus is sooooo much easier). They become downright onery when lumped into large groups.

This is true. There are all sorts of reasons for why nations are the way they are, as you well know. This is one of them.

Another example: Switzerland. Why has it remained successfully neutral for such a long time? Well, look at geography. Does anyone even think the Swiss neutrality would have been possible if the country was as flat as, say, the Netherlands? Switzerland is a mini-Afghanistan right in the middle of Europe, in terms of geography. That helps!

Likewise, Russian paranoia is definitely fuelled by the fact once you start marching east from Poland, it's essentially all flat land. Hence the historical need for a buffer zone. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be any attempt to update this idea even if Russia is under no threat at all from the west.

Edited April 7, 2022 by xzar_monty

[kanisatha]

11 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

Likewise, Russian paranoia is definitely fuelled by the fact once you start marching east from Poland, it's essentially all flat land. Hence the historical need for a buffer zone. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be any attempt to update this idea even if Russia is under no threat at all from the west.

Well in Russia's case, the physical isolation of living deep inside a huge landmass also makes their people more paranoid and xenophobic, as has historically been the case with Russians.

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, kanisatha said:

Well in Russia's case, the physical isolation of living deep inside a huge landmass also makes their people more paranoid and xenophobic, as has historically been the case with Russians.

We can't say for sure, as we just don't know enough about this, but I wonder about the climate as well...

There's the old joke: if Dostoevsky had been born in Hawaii, would the world have Crime and Punishment?

I'd say pretty much everyone agrees that the answer is almost certainly: No.

[ShadySands]

10 hours ago, Azdeus said:

I'm pretty certain that I am the one more likely to be arrested, for breaking the Law of Jante

I first heard of that when I watching some show on Netflix about the music industry or something, it was just on as background. The episode was about how Sweden is a major player in the music industry but how very few people know about it because they rarely mention it as it's seen as bad form.

And on topic, war is bad.

[ComradeYellow]

3 hours ago, kanisatha said:

Well in Russia's case, the physical isolation of living deep inside a huge landmass also makes their people more paranoid and xenophobic, as has historically been the case with Russians.

Eh, most of Russia's population lives in the western part of the country, the Siberians are only ever mobilized when they get attacked (1 million Siberian troops saved the day at Stalingrad).  I think it's mostly just cultural an political differences as i'm sure Russians can travel to places like Kazakhstan and Iran and do fine. 

Go to the rural parts of China it's the same deal, some Australian tourists visited the outskirts of the Guizhou province in China and when one Chinese woman saw them as she was meditating out in the open grass she turned white and fled at the sight of them because her brain was operating on decades old perceptions of westerners due to no up to date information available.

Edited April 7, 2022 by ComradeYellow

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

There's the old joke: if Dostoevsky had been born in Hawaii, would the world have Crime and Punishment?

Cane and Pineapples by Dostoevsky.

"And the more I drink pinatas the more I feel it. That’s why I drink too. I try to find sympathy and feeling in drink.... I drink so that I may surf twice as much!"

[kanisatha]

2 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

We can't say for sure, as we just don't know enough about this, but I wonder about the climate as well...

There's the old joke: if Dostoevsky had been born in Hawaii, would the world have Crime and Punishment?

I'd say pretty much everyone agrees that the answer is almost certainly: No.

Yes indeed, definitely the climate as well. And since we're on this topic, even though it is off-topic for this thread, I just have to ask because I've heard it said so very often: Do you guys from Sweden and Finland believe that your society and your people are melancholy by nature because of the climate in which you live? That the way you are and the way you live your lives, and even the way you express yourselves, are all driven by a pervasive sense of melancholy that permeates your society? The social and behavioral scientist in me has long been very curious about this claim.

[xzar_monty]

48 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

Yes indeed, definitely the climate as well. And since we're on this topic, even though it is off-topic for this thread, I just have to ask because I've heard it said so very often: Do you guys from Sweden and Finland believe that your society and your people are melancholy by nature because of the climate in which you live? That the way you are and the way you live your lives, and even the way you express yourselves, are all driven by a pervasive sense of melancholy that permeates your society? The social and behavioral scientist in me has long been very curious about this claim.

I wouldn't say melancholy. If I were to explain it in psychological terms, it would be closer to bipolar disorder than melancholy (unipolar), although of course describing it as bipolar is taking it a bit too far. Right up in the north of Europe, there is indeed plenty of cold and darkness, but what you have to keep in mind is that there is also an overabundance of light. Many is the traveller who arrives here during summertime and cannot sleep. Going crazy about life and sex and all that during the lighter months is also not unheard of at all.

So yes, the climate and the latitudes do have an effect, but it's more complex than just melancholy.

Remember: if you have a one-night stand above the Arctic Circle, it'll last six months!

[kanisatha]

I did spend a couple of days in Barrow, Alaska, in June, many years ago. It was indeed nuts; kids playing outside at 2 am!! But it was also so very interesting as a sociological experience. Plus, now I can say I have dipped my toes in all four oceans of the world!

[Raithe]

This Ninth-grader made a video diary in Mariupol

Alona Zahreba made a video diary of life in the besieged Ukrainian port, showing how they gathered snow when water was cut off and smoke rising from nearby explosions. She spoke to Current Time about what life was like in Mariupol, and how she and her family escaped.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Raithe

[Malcador]

The way they're hyping this future Battle of Donbass, I'm expecting it to be nothing much

 

[Gorth]

4 hours ago, kanisatha said:

Yes indeed, definitely the climate as well. And since we're on this topic, even though it is off-topic for this thread, I just have to ask because I've heard it said so very often: Do you guys from Sweden and Finland believe that your society and your people are melancholy by nature because of the climate in which you live? That the way you are and the way you live your lives, and even the way you express yourselves, are all driven by a pervasive sense of melancholy that permeates your society? The social and behavioral scientist in me has long been very curious about this claim.

I don't live in Sweden or Finland, but being an old ex-pat Dane, I can tell you the 6 months of darkness in the winter half gets to you (even if the 200 annual days of rain doesn't)...

 

Edit: as @xzar_monty pointed out, the summer half has daylight until very late, even as far south as Denmark. As kids we used to laugh at tourists not being able to sleep at night (because the sun is still shining at 10 in the evening)

[Zoraptor]

The depression in winter thing has a proper medical term: Seasonal Affective Disorder. Though technically it applies if a mental illness is regularly/ cyclically worse in any season, not just winter.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Zoraptor