Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Part 2

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

27 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I watched a streamer go through it so I have no issues waiting for the final edition to drop. It looks like it will be a fun game to play, still not sold on the mini game...

I think it will be like Kingmaker, ok to pretty good content but a mod to circumvent the management mini game is a requirement.

[HoonDing]

One step forward, two steps back is the Russian way.

[uuuhhii]

remember playing all those horrible janky old euro rpg hoping for a special edition to fix some of the bug

now they have weekly hotfix

and bugs still manage to get worse

[Sarex]

2 hours ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I think it will be like Kingmaker, ok to pretty good content but a mod to circumvent the management mini game is a requirement.

The story is better for whats it's worth and there are some really cool maps. All in all it's an improvement on the previous game, although not as big of a one as I would have liked it to be...

Edited November 10, 2021 by Sarex

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 minutes ago, Sarex said:

The story is better for whats it's worth and there are some really cool maps. All in all it's an improvement on the previous game, although not as big of a one as I would have liked it to be...

It looks better at least, with the major exception of the Magus outfit. With custom mythic rules (which in some ways are less intrusive than PnP mythic), custom archetypes, and mounted combat it was bound to be a cluster**** of bugs. I'll probably end up liking it much more than Kingmaker when I get around to it and everything is more stable.

[Achilles]

5 hours ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

mounted combat it was bound to be a cluster**** of bugs

Considering animal companion size requirements for mounted combat, poor pathing, and the amount of time spent in dungeon-like areas, I'm really surprised that anyone thought this was the game to introduce this feature. Also surprised that people are using it.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

47 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Considering animal companion size requirements for mounted combat, poor pathing, and the amount of time spent in dungeon-like areas, I'm really surprised that anyone thought this was the game to introduce this feature. Also surprised that people are using it.

I think size stuff in general does not play well in Owlcat's Pathfinder. Even in Kingmaker, using Enlarge Person or grown up animal companions was a pain (in TB) because they'd regularly end up blocking paths or being blocked out. From what I can tell it is a bit worse in WotR due to narrow doorways and such. So yeah, unless you build a campaign with mounts in mind I think it's going to run into serious issues with level design built for human sized characters.

Though I can see people using mounted combat if a companion's pounce applies to the rider, getting two full attacks each round sounds like it could be a boss killer. I've also seen comments that it makes the rider a much better tank, which I assume is correct because Pathfinder 1e wonkiness.

[Achilles]

1 hour ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

WotR due to narrow doorways and such

There are actually several areas in wrath where they doubled the size of doorways in between pre-release versions, if that tells you anything.

[bugarup]

14 hours ago, KP the meanie zucchini said:

I thought about giving it a shot, but it looks like Zippy Magic is badly broken and there's still a host of other bugs so I think I'm gonna wait a few more months. Maybe the "abilities work as their descriptions say they do" or "monsters with over 9000 ac were brought in line" dlcs will drop by then.

Kingmaker introduced new bugs even in definitive edition that came  a year or something after launch, and that included what appears to be their trademark, i.e. insane AC of mobs. I'm not sure it is fixed yet, quite a lot of Kingmaker bugs never were, so don't get your hopes up. 

I'm thinking about waiting for definitive edition this time, because Kingmaker's edition did away with quite a few aggravating annoyances, but then it's unlikely they'll add moar story to the barren end chapters because they didn't in KM, or implement easy one-click-autobuff because 10 minutes long buffing sessions appear to be integral part of Pathfinder experience. So I'll probably wait for some more bugfixin' and perhaps a "Skip Enigma" mod and just keep cheating. I don't think I ever cheated in any game as much as I do in WOTR, but it started first. 

[xzar_monty]

24 minutes ago, bugarup said:

I don't think I ever cheated in any game as much as I do in WOTR, but it started first. 

By the way, this is just astonishing. I still can't figure out why they do it. In P:K, the cheating against the player was so blatantly obvious -- and it was also mean and unnecessary. Why did they do it? I'm not sure I've seen it in WotR as of yet, but I'm inclined to trust you if you say it's there. (I'm still in very early game -- I've made it to the market square in the first city, and that's about it. I mean, the game starts at the market square, and I don't mean that. I mean making it to the market square after some dungeon crawling.)

Edited November 11, 2021 by xzar_monty

[majestic]

Yeah, to consistently hit the harder enemies later in the game you'll have to aim for a 65+ attack bonus after buffs (more for unfair difficulty, but at least that is self-admittedly meant to be unfair). The entire game is set up so you need to load the dice in your favor to even stand a chance, unless you happen to have a main character Angel with spellbook merging, because in that case you're blessed with spells neither subject to saves nor spell resistance and a whole lot of casts per day.

[xzar_monty]

I wonder if the game has been a commercial success so far.

[ShadySands]

I haven't seen any numbers since they announced they sold 250k copies in the first week

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

8 hours ago, Achilles said:

There are actually several areas in wrath where they doubled the size of doorways in between pre-release versions, if that tells you anything.

I didn't know that. I do remember my regular party almost wiping when they got stuck in a doorway in the beta, so hopefully less of that will happen.

5 hours ago, bugarup said:

Kingmaker introduced new bugs even in definitive edition that came  a year or something after launch, and that included what appears to be their trademark, i.e. insane AC of mobs. I'm not sure it is fixed yet, quite a lot of Kingmaker bugs never were, so don't get your hopes up.

Well that's not encouraging lmao.

[uuuhhii]

8 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

I wonder if the game has been a commercial success so far.

seems to sold much better than kingmaker

but 1e adventure path will have a very limited player pool

and paizo would be moving on to 2e with game novel and comic very soon

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

12 minutes ago, uuuhhii said:

seems to sold much better than kingmaker

but 1e adventure path will have a very limited player pool

and paizo would be moving on to 2e with game novel and comic very soon

Given the rampant stat inflation in WotR I'm apprehensive about Owlcat doing a Pathfinder 2e game. Imagine the disaster of giving every enemy +4 to ac, attack, dc, and saves in 2e lmao.

[uuuhhii]

27 minutes ago, KP Cross Split Attack said:

Given the rampant stat inflation in WotR I'm apprehensive about Owlcat doing a Pathfinder 2e game. Imagine the disaster of giving every enemy +4 to ac, attack, dc, and saves in 2e lmao.

2e game would be unlikely to be made by owlcat

since paizo work with other developer before and owlcat already far too invested to 1e system

obsidian would be the best choice but very unlikely as well

a developer more focus on turn base will be better suited for 2e

kingmaker only come out at the end of 2e life cycle

paizo doesn't move fast on things other than books

Edited November 11, 2021 by uuuhhii

[Agiel]

Spoiler

That's my first playthrough done. Thoughts are still percolating but can contribute a few points. I rather like the narrative directions Owlcat takes with its main villains (Nyrissa for Kingmaker, Areelu Vorlesh for WotR) and I admire them for expanding them well beyond the one-dimensional baddies they were in the original Adventure Paths (a friend of mine will be participating in a Kingmaker campaign once its 2nd Edition iteration finally comes, and as he was already aware of the secret ending for the Owlcat cRPG I asked him if there was a certain Seduction check he will attempt).  I'm enticed by an Azata playthrough as it seems to be the most well received narratively speaking, and it helps that my Pathfinder PC and the characters I played in Kingmaker and WotR are followers of Desna, though I've decided for a few more patches before I come back to WoTR (or probably when the first major story DLC comes out) as from what forum members here have said many mechanics for the Azata path remain borked. 

Hot tips for those wanting to do a Trickster playthrough in the future. Max out your Persuasion on every level-up and take Persuasion Trick 2, which Paralyzes creatures that fail a Will check DC your ranks of Persuasion +10 and Shakens those that succeed. Next, pick up the Ring of Boreal Might and slap it on your go-to spontaneous caster. As the Paralyze status reduces a creature's Dexterity to 1 (one) the stat drain from Polar Ray will guarantee one-shot a Paralyzed enemy (incredibly the Vavakia Vanguard rolled a 1 for the Will check, and Ember was able to one-shot his first stage with this method, and even Balors failing this check aren't wholly uncommon). Be advised that this ability is slightly bugged in that in some saves the Paralyze status can be inflicted on some of your own party members at the start of combat. Mobility Tricks for a melee-based Rogue are also hilarious, as you can simply micro your MC around crowds of dudes to blender them with AoOs (get Mythic Vital Strike to finish off your turn).

Postcript: I got a chuckle out of this image floating around:

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Agiel

[uuuhhii]

1 hour ago, Agiel said:

  Hide contents

That's my first playthrough done. Thoughts are still percolating but can contribute a few points. I rather like the narrative directions Owlcat takes with its main villains (Nyrissa for Kingmaker, Areelu Vorlesh for WotR) and I admire them for expanding them well beyond the one-dimensional baddies they were in the original Adventure Paths (a friend of mine will be participating in a Kingmaker campaign once its 2nd Edition iteration finally comes, and as he was already aware of the secret ending for the Owlcat cRPG I asked him if there was a certain Seduction check he will attempt).  I'm enticed by an Azata playthrough as it seems to be the most well received narratively speaking, and it helps that my Pathfinder PC and the characters I played in Kingmaker and WotR are followers of Desna, though I've decided for a few more patches before I come back to WoTR (or probably when the first major story DLC comes out) as from what forum members here have said many mechanics for the Azata path remain borked. 

Hot tips for those wanting to do a Trickster playthrough in the future. Max out your Persuasion on every level-up and take Persuasion Trick 2, which Paralyzes creatures that fail a Will check DC your ranks of Persuasion +10 and Shakens those that succeed. Next, pick up the Ring of Boreal Might and slap it on your go-to spontaneous caster. As the Paralyze status reduces a creature's Dexterity to 1 (one) the stat drain from Polar Ray will guarantee one-shot a Paralyzed enemy (incredibly the Vavakia Vanguard rolled a 1 for the Will check, and Ember was able to one-shot his first stage with this method, and even Balors failing this check aren't wholly uncommon). Be advised that this ability is slightly bugged in that in some saves the Paralyze status can be inflicted on some of your own party members at the start of combat. Mobility Tricks for a melee-based Rogue are also hilarious, as you can simply micro your MC around crowds of dudes to blender them with AoOs (get Mythic Vital Strike to finish off your turn).

Postcript: I got a chuckle out of this image floating around:

  Reveal hidden contents

really hated the serect ending in wotr

areelu as boss feels like the biggest narrative failare in the game

cannot kill baphomet without areelu are certainly disappointing

use polar ray to kill that super crystal with crazy stat but 1 dex

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Agiel said:

Ring of Boreal Might

spontaneous casters get all the good stuff. is one reason why our second choice for azata were gonna be an oracle, but the blackened curse was (is?) bugged. nevertheless, there is a ring which allows you to cast all the best offensive fire spells... if you are a spontaneous caster. there is also bracers which allow you to cast all the best electricity spells... if you are a spontaneous caster. the fire spell ring is available kinda earlyish, and the bracers is chapter three in what were a difficult area before recent patches. 

am actual going hard for ice spells with our current (extreme slow) azata sorcerer run as the feyspeaker we were envisioning and shadow spells in general is busted at the moment resulting in a fubar intended concept... and as we noted, oracle weren't working neither, though am admitting oracle woulda' been fine even w/o blackened. therefore am going with our third choice which is the not the least bit unique sorc/arcane trickster. also, am taking one level o' crossblood sorcerer (silver dragon and water) for sosiel which sounds odd, but there is an azata spell which makes foes vulnerable to cold, so sosiel with the white dragon armour and the relic shield which buffs ice spells is actual decent as more than a dedicated healbot and buffer late game. the white dragon armour woulda' been perfect for our druid build, but oh well. 

while am not the aivu fan some people appear to be, azata does a fair job with providing whimsical and good options. there is a few azata path relevant characters and quests which we wish woulda' been better developed, but relative speaking the highpoints for azata is solid compared to the other wotr options. additional, am thinking part o' the reason why azata gets general approval is in part due to the wotr alignment system, as curious as such sounds. an angel character who selects "good" every single dialog is gonna shift to neutral good and away from lawful, so you frequent choose the lawful choice. wotr lawful is functional, "what would regill do in this situation?" paladin makes the good choice every time and falls from grace. is also nothing particular clever or surprising with angel-- is by the numbers heroic fantasy stuff. the evil mythic paths suffer from the usual crpg problem regarding the need to make evil options insular. oh sure, bill gates may be as evil as they come, but is not as if he kicks puppies whenever he gets the chance. crpg evil is usual a bit cartoonish and wotr is hardly providing a creative or unique approach to crpg evil. azata is nothing special, but it don't punish you for playing your character and it has a handful o' genuine chuckleworthy moments. 

HA! Good Fun!

is ~2:00am pst and am getting a 2.4gb update, but not patch notes are available via steam or owlcat at this time. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Gromnir

[uuuhhii]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

spontaneous casters get all the good stuff. is one reason why our second choice for azata were gonna be an oracle, but the blackened curse was (is?) bugged. nevertheless, there is a ring which allows you to cast all the best offensive fire spells... if you are a spontaneous caster. there is also bracers which allow you to cast all the best electricity spells... if you are a spontaneous caster. the fire spell ring is available kinda earlyish, and the bracers is chapter three in what were a difficult area before recent patches. 

am actual going hard for ice spells with our current (extreme slow) azata sorcerer run as the feyspeaker we were envisioning and shadow spells in general is busted at the moment resulting in a fubar intended concept... and as we noted, oracle weren't working neither, though am admitting oracle woulda' been fine even w/o blackened. therefore am going with our third choice which is the not the least bit unique sorc/arcane trickster. also, am taking one level o' crossblood sorcerer (silver dragon and water) for sosiel which sounds odd, but there is an azata spell which makes foes vulnerable to cold, so sosiel with the white dragon armour and the relic shield which buffs ice spells is actual decent as more than a dedicated healbot and buffer late game. the white dragon armour woulda' been perfect for our druid build, but oh well. 

while am not the aivu fan some people appear to be, azata does a fair job with providing whimsical and good options. there is a few azata path relevant characters and quests which we wish woulda' been better developed, but relative speaking the highpoints for azata is solid compared to the other wotr options. additional, am thinking part o' the reason why azata gets general approval is in part due to the wotr alignment system, as curious as such sounds. an angel character who selects "good" every single dialog is gonna shift to neutral good and away from lawful, so you frequent choose the lawful choice. wotr lawful is functional, "what would regill do in this situation?" paladin makes the good choice every time and falls from grace. is also nothing particular clever or surprising with angel-- is by the numbers heroic fantasy stuff. the evil mythic paths suffer from the usual crpg problem regarding the need to make evil options insular. oh sure, bill gates may be as evil as they come, but is not as if he kicks puppies whenever he gets the chance. crpg evil is usual a bit cartoonish and wotr is hardly providing a creative or unique approach to crpg evil. azata is nothing special, but it don't punish you for playing your character and it has a handful o' genuine chuckleworthy moments. 

HA! Good Fun!

is ~2:00am pst and am getting a 2.4gb update, but not patch notes are available via steam or owlcat at this time. 

electric bracer seems to covert damage for prepare caster too

and the metamagic turn spell full round thing really give blaster spontaneous some trouble compare to prepare

best blaster seems to be arcanist with a lot of metamagic and mythic metamagic

[bugarup]

2 hours ago, Agiel said:

Hot tips for those wanting to do a Trickster playthrough in the future. 

Thanks! Does bombardier have good synergy with the Trickster? Cause it looks like there's no mythic path that's ideal for bombardiers, though I remember reading here it goes well with Lich and I cannot see how exactly, but then I have zero knowledge in Pathfinder tabletop...

As for Big Bads, as someone who hated both of them I am v. happy that Owlcat also provided means to give them a colossal middle finger.  

Edited November 12, 2021 by bugarup
Speling und puncktuashion

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, uuuhhii said:

electric bracer seems to covert damage for prepare caster too

and the metamagic turn spell full round thing really give blaster spontaneous some trouble compare to prepare

best blaster seems to be arcanist with a lot of metamagic and mythic metamagic

am not really looking for "best blaster," and have already mentioned the shortcomings o' metamagic feats + spontaneous casters earlier in this thread. the goal for our build were a charisma-based caster which thematically we could fit with azata. a gnome feyspeaker were perfect and a bit ridiculous. ideal. is where we got the idea for sosiel as we were planning to make our feyspeaker take one level o' crossblood sorc to take advantage o' ice powhaz. we also had plans for a nature oracle, but those were bugged. so sorc it is. heck, we went human for the bonus skill points even though half-elf with the charisma boost heritage were the obvious choice. "best" weren't the goal. am quite willing to settle for highly effective. 

is a few bardish builds which we considered for an azata run but skalds are still kinda wonky and the court poet in particular, while useful, felt a bit emasculated after the big patch/nerf, and is not as if it were sooper powerful before the nerf. owlcat noticed features weren't working for the court poet so it looks like instead o' trying to fix, they simply changed the court poet description to match the broken status... while also removing rage stances. *shrug* if am doing court poet is probable as levels tacked onto seelah. bard songs is kinda replicated with azata, so a significant feature o' the path gets wasted a bit on a bard. a dirge bard intimidator is incredible effective in wotr.  am genuine a bit surprised we don't see more people glomping onto intimidation builds save for recognition that support classes is never particular popular, and dirge bard doesn't exact have a natural thematic mesh with azata anyway... 'though all it takes is a little imagination to explain such curiosities. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps on our azata run we got lann doing the three levels o' zen + divine hunter... and possible one level o' demonslayer at some point. ordinarily is dogs, wolves and leopards exclusive for our animal companion classes, but the velociraptor has a charisma of fourteen... because? whatever. a celestial divine hunter animal companion gets smite evil once per day, and smite stacks with everything. so if we got seelah eventual taking eight levels o' court poet, and we stick a +4 or +6 charisma boosting item on lann's velociraptor, in boss battles the little dino is gonna be kinda impressive and utter ridiculous. win.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Gromnir

[uuuhhii]

53 minutes ago, bugarup said:

Thanks! Does bombardier have good synergy with the Trickster? Cause it looks like there's no mythic path that's ideal for bombardiers, though I remember reading here it goes well with Lich and I cannot see how exactly, but then I have zero knowledge in Pathfinder tabletop...

As for Big Bads, as someone who hated both of them I am v. happy that Owlcat also provided means to give them a colossal middle finger.  

tried a brown fur 10 arcane trickster 10 trickster

take perception 2 and umd 3

great blaster and buffer with ridiculous amount of spell slot

the most powerful part of low level trickster would be perception 2 feat

which make martial companion into crit machine

also make prepare caster much more powerful

[xzar_monty]

So now, holy moly, I have made it to where I have to defend the tavern against an onslaught of enemies. It seems to me that if there ever was bad game design, this is it.

1) Irabeth and her folks just stand around, doing nothing.

2) I am defending this tavern against an apparently endless amount of invaders without any indication as to whether something else is going to happen at some point. I've destroyed an awful lot or arsonists, cultists, dretches and what have you, and nothing else seems to happen. Obviosly I'm going to be running out resources, namely hit points, in the end.

Incidentally, I just reached level 5 before this fight began. I have no idea whether this is a good level or not. But the game design surely doesn't look in this battle.

Anyone has any thoughts on this?