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The all things Political topic -In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie


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9 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

Says the completely out of touch woodsman! ;)

GD is right Comrade, you dont need wars or civil wars to see change.....yes sometimes calamitous events\wars are unfortunately necessary but their are often other alternatives 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Exactly. The stock market crash of 1929 and the subsequent slow failure of the banking system over the next three years fundamentally changed the role the US government plays in the economy. Changed for good or ill is certainly debatable. But change was definite. And no shots were fired.

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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2 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

No, I dont have any distain for the people, I have distain for the process. While others feels its "working as intended", it pisses me off to no end that we cant find our ass with both hands. Almost nothing gets accomplished and what does takes years. And it seems more and more common for one side to try to "stick it to" the other side instead of working together towards goals. Ive also been around long enough to watch the pendulum of power swing back and forth so I dont really have a "side" (Dem or Rep). I just want the best possible human or AI to execute their duties.

There is a school of thought that this is a good thing. Slow change means it's not disruptive to society or the economy, and you have an opportunity to change course when things start to go wrong. Revolutions usually make things worse for everybody.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Chauvin files appeal

It seems to me the activities of this one Jour before he got on the jury is more likely to submarine this verdict than the comments of waters and Biden. Just how it looks from my perspective.

I'm very doubtful that it will be thrown out because the linked article and another on the same site about the juror makes it seem unlikely. I'm no legal expert but that'll be 300 dollars.

Edited by ShadySands

Free games updated 3/4/21

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59 minutes ago, rjshae said:

There is a school of thought that this is a good thing. Slow change means it's not disruptive to society or the economy, and you have an opportunity to change course when things start to go wrong. Revolutions usually make things worse for everybody.

Well, not the winners. :p  But that seems to be the baked in excuse so I understand your point.

Id like to think theres some middle ground between glacial and revolution. :yes:

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

Nice going California? Want to make everyone equally dumb? 

https://reason.com/2021/05/04/california-math-framework-woke-equity-calculus/

@Hurlshot

What's this about? Or is it some sensationalism writing? 

we never bother to read dp links-- fool us once.

however, am guessing from reading the link verbiage, this has something to do with keeping kids o' different abilities in the same class until some point in high school. freshman or sophomore? whenever has been suggested, is a freshman or sophomore thing.

makes a whole lotta sense from an educational pov. kids learn as much from fellow students as teachers, and has been discovered students learn more when they explain problems to other students. is one o' the explanations as to why special needs kids and esl students is now taught in regular classes as 'posed to special settings removed from th larger student population. special help for esl and special needs actual leads to slower advancement and has been discovered that when students mentor their esl and special needs peers, those mentoring students benefit considerable.

what this means is a whole lotta extra work for teachers, 'cause those teachers won't just be teaching a math class to, in some california schools, three dozen students at the same time. gotta teach billy trig while albert is still struggling with fractions? as if teachers didn't have enough work as it is. 

'course is possible am being non responsive to dp as we didn't bother to read the link. would rather french kiss a electrical outlet than follow a dp link.

as to the chauvin trial and @Guard Dog observation, overturn a jury verdict is kinda extraordinary. however, am not having a full accounting o' voir dire and judge handling o' specific jury issues... voir dire ain't some weird sex thing btw. as often as not, failure to discover more 'bout juror pre-trial activities gets blamed on lawyers for failing to do due diligence in investigating, even if such an outcome don't feel particularly fair from a defendant/lawyer pov. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps fixed as we can't spell "read."

 

 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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43 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Not really surprising, given the last few decades.

The single biggest cited threat to democracy is economic inequality (64%)

Well that's interesting. I wonder just how bad it is country by country?

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12 minutes ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

Well that's interesting. I wonder just how bad it is country by country?

It's kind of magnified in the US as the economy is so overinflated that the wage gaps are astronomical. Other than Switzerland there is no country in the world with wages of the same level and Switzerland has very little economic inequality.

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"In perhaps the most startling finding, nearly half (44%) of respondents in the 53 countries surveyed are concerned that the US threatens democracy in their country; fear of Chinese influence is by contrast 38%, and fear of Russian influence is lowest at 28%."

Will have to look up the actual poll results by country later, curious how that goes.

"Since last year, the perception of US influence as a threat to democracy around the world has increased significantly, from a net opinion of +6 to a net opinion of +14. This increase is particularly high in Germany (+20) and China (+16)."

Surprised they'd care in China. 😛

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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when we were teaching in europe, near everybody we met wanted to talk US politics.  sure, those same folks all complained 'bout bankrupt US culture and the ludicrousness o' the US being so important to world events, but they just wouldn't shut up about the US. americans were fat and stoopid and the way minorities were treated in the US were reprehensible. am sitting there, literal arm length away from these undereducated, chain-smoking socialist brats whom we could embarrass in any physical contest you might invent or imagine after having experienced more overt racism in a few months than we had endured in decades in the US  and is as if we are sudden invisible or something. we nevertheless initial found the euro preoccupation with all things USA to be... quaint. only initially. 

our time spent in europe contributed heavily to us voting republican consistent (a few exceptions) from the early 1990s all the way to 2016. 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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2 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I'm no legal expert but that'll be 300 dollars.

I thought you said you were not a legal expert. You sound like a lawyer I know already LOL

  • Haha 2

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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34 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I thought you said you were not a legal expert. You sound like a lawyer I know already LOL

we shoulda' gotten into the collections side o' the legal biz. on average, two hours billable equals three hours actual work, and that is in spite o' the ordinary 1/10 hourly increment shenanigans which may be exploited when some associate is facing a billable hours crunch. beware the 30-second phone call. even the enormous firms able to handpick clients never collect all fees billed. nowhere near all fees is collected. gd is in part paying for all the other folks who will never be able or willing to pay. a couple guys we knew from school got into collections almost immediate after they passed the ca bar and they made far more money than we ever made as an attorney. our understanding is their experience were not atypical.

likely won't make you feel better, but we do not envy the solo practitioner trying to pay the electric bill to keep the lights on in her office. is a tough racket, particular for those just starting. 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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11 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

we shoulda' gotten into the collections side o' the legal biz. on average, two hours billable equals three hours actual work, and that is in spite o' the ordinary 1/10 hourly increment shenanigans which may be exploited when some associate is facing a billable hours crunch. beware the 30-second phone call. even the enormous firms able to handpick clients never collect all fees billed. nowhere near all fees is collected. gd is in part paying for all the other folks who will never be able or willing to pay. a couple guys we knew from school got into collections almost immediate after they passed the ca bar and they made far more money than we ever made as an attorney. our understanding is their experience were not atypical.

likely won't make you feel better, but we do not envy the solo practitioner trying to pay the electric bill to keep the lights on in her office. is a tough racket, particular for those just starting. 

HA! Good Fun!

My lawyer is a lady named Janet. She specializes in real estate and handles all of my leases for me. I like her she hasn’t steered me wrong yet. Can’t say that about the guy I was working with before. But she bills me for absolutely everything. But you’re right she’s working on her own with just a handful of clients trying to keep the lights on and the fridge full.

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

when we were teaching in europe, near everybody we met wanted to talk US politics.  sure, those same folks all complained 'bout bankrupt US culture and the ludicrousness o' the US being so important to world events, but they just wouldn't shut up about the US. americans were fat and stoopid and the way minorities were treated in the US were reprehensible. am sitting there, literal arm length away from these undereducated, chain-smoking socialist brats whom we could embarrass in any physical contest you might invent or imagine after having experienced more overt racism in a few months than we had endured in decades in the US  and is as if we are sudden invisible or something. we nevertheless initial found the euro preoccupation with all things USA to be... quaint. only initially. 

our time spent in europe contributed heavily to us voting republican consistent (a few exceptions) from the early 1990s all the way to 2016. 

HA! Good Fun!

Sort of a small sample size to be going off of, I mean, those people are doing the same thing.  Nice that your ability to overmatch them in a physical contest is relevant, although is suitably American, I guess.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Sort of a small sample size to be going off of, I mean, those people are doing the same thing.  Nice that your ability to overmatch them in a physical contest is relevant, although is suitably American, I guess.

*sigh*

again, one o' the generalizations euros had 'bout americans were our obesity and lack o' physical fitness, so observing how we were in far better condition than literal any student or faculty with whom we interacted over a considerable period o' time is misplaced why? 

and am not sure how large a sample size would have been necessary to convince you or anybody else with their tight held preconceptions 'bout americans. Gromnir spent over a year in europe, predominant dealing with university students. am guaranteeing our sample size were a hell o' a lot larger than the one the euros we were ordinarily dealing with had used to come to their conclusions 'bout american's and their education, health and culture.

HA! Good Fun!

ps you have no idea how difficult it were to find a decent gym in spain and england in the early 90s. euros eventual picked up on that quaint bit o' american culture, but were unicorn rare at the time.

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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7 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

*sigh*

again, one o' the generalizations euros had 'bout americans were our obesity and lack o' physical fitness, so observing how we were in far better condition than literal any student or faculty with whom we interacted over a considerable period o' time is misplaced why? 

and am not sure how large a sample size would have been necessary to convince you or anybody else with their tight held preconceptions 'bout americans. Gromnir spent over a year in europe, predominant dealing with university students. am guaranteeing our sample size were a hell o' a lot larger than the one the euros we were ordinarily were dealing with had used to come to their conclusions 'bout american's and their education, health and culture.

HA! Good Fun!

ps you have no idea how difficult it were to find a decent gym in spain and england in the early 90s. euros eventual picked up on that quaint bit o' american culture, but were unicorn rare at the time.

Well a very large sample size would be and a diverse one as well, is a lot of people to form a conclusion about.  Don't think they are at all preoccupied with Americans or the USA, from the many I've dealt with.  They'll talk about it or them if they're in the news but if that's the bar for preoccupation..

I don't really have tightly held preconceptions about Americans, myself.  Hm, suppose they do get testy when you mock their nation though, more than others.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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12 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Well a very large sample size would be and a diverse one as well, is a lot of people to form a conclusion about.  Don't think they are at all preoccupied with Americans or the USA, from the many I've dealt with.  They'll talk about it or them if they're in the news but if that's the bar for preoccupation..

 

you do realize how this issue came up yes? is particular funny as multiple non americans on an american game developer message board were discussing the relevance o' results o' a poll posted in an english paper which found,

"In perhaps the most startling finding, nearly half (44%) of respondents in the 53 countries surveyed are concerned that the US threatens democracy in their country;"

you cannot hear us, but assume we is chuckling.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Well, two non-Americans counts as multiple, yes.  But the underlying poll ran off 50k, not sure if that's all that useful though.  Sort of funny we don't have a statistician here, you'd think cRPGs would be right in their wheelhouse (then again, having to do their work outside of work may be unappealing).

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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4 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Well, two non-Americans counts as multiple, yes.  But the underlying poll ran off 50k, not sure if that's all that useful though.  Sort of funny we don't have a statistician here, you'd think cRPGs would be right in their wheelhouse (then again, having to do their work outside of work may be unappealing).

*sigh*

so now 50k (statistics) is not useful. year in europe (anecdotal and used in comparison to europeans making similar conclusions regarding americans w/o benefit o' anything like a year in the US) were not useful. becoming kinda clear any observation which don't match your preconception will not be useful. 

and since you have obvious never posted here previous, welcome to the politics thread, but be aware that a significant % o' posts in this thread will be focused on US politics and not only US citizens will be driving the abundance o' contributions in the thread. sure, all those disinterested europeans and canadians and people from other parts o' the globe is no doubt being forced to post against their will. is not 50k posters, or anything near, but neither statistics nor anecdotal sways you from your established position, so...

*insert eye-roll*

HA! Good Fun!

 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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2 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

*sigh*

so now 50k (statistics) is not useful. year in europe (anecdotal and used in comparison to europeans making similar conclusions regarding americans w/o benefit o' anything like a year in the US) were not useful. becoming kinda clear any observation which don't match your preconception will not be useful. 

and since you have obvious never posted here previous, welcome to the politics thread, but be aware that a significant % o' posts in this thread will be focused on US politics and not only US citizens will be driving the abundance o' contributions in the thread. sure, all those disinterested europeans and canadians and people from other parts o' the globe is no doubt being forced to post against their will. is not 50k posters, or anything near, but neither statistics nor anecdotal sways you from your established position, so...

*insert eye-roll*

HA! Good Fun!

 

I wrote I am not sure if it is, 53 nations involved and only 50k surveyed, I wasn't very good in statistics so while I can assume it's not a wank sample size that'll be an assumption.  Not sure what my supposed preconception is, either.  But as for non-Americans commenting on US affairs, is that what you consider preoccupation ? 

 

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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5 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I wrote I am not sure if it is, 53 nations involved and only 50k surveyed, I wasn't very good in statistics so while I can assume it's not a wank sample size that'll be an assumption.  Not sure what my supposed preconception is, either.  But as for non-Americans commenting on US affairs, is that what you consider preoccupation ? 

 

the lack o' self-awareness, particular given how the issue started and where and how you is discussing the topic, is exact what we were dealing with while in europe. 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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It should be fine for sample size. IIRC 95% confidence with +/- 3% for a country size typical population requires only ~1000 people, so long as you're able to weight respondents properly.

4 hours ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

Well that's interesting. I wonder just how bad it is country by country?

You can download the report if you want and have a look. Don't think they charge for it, but I haven't downloaded it myself to check.

Certainly can't accuse the Alliance of Democracies of deliberately commissioning a survey to give the answers they wanted, they're an impeccably pro western lot founded by a former NATO secgen. Not really something that you can accuse Teh Grauniad of though:

Quote

The survey was carried out by the Latana polling company between February and April, so a hangover effect of Donald Trump’s “America first” foreign policy may linger in the findings.

As an explanation for why the perceived threat of the US to democracy went up decently from last year that isn't exactly great, when the survey period started 3 months after Trump was voted out and a month after Biden was inaugurated. It would be more likely to be distrust of the thoroughly interventionist people surrounding Biden than that.

(More realistically, and since by most of the other metric perception of the US improved, it may well be an out of confidence result, since for 95% confidence 1/20 responses will be 'wrong'. Still even if it is rogue it's still unlikely to be massively wrong, just outside the 3% or whatever)

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

You can download the report if you want and have a look. Don't think they charge for it, but I haven't downloaded it myself to check.

Time to put the support inbox email to good use (they seem to block free email addresses). I'll spare everyone else the trouble and chuck it on a share later today.

But for KP's question

image.thumb.png.7d3a5603607363e6b40dce7596e16b5d.png

Something amusing about KSA being so low there

Also

image.thumb.png.61f56d0bdb240c626e88c041a7b46d9c.png

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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