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The All Things Political Thread (One thread to rule them all and in the darkness bind them)


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Just now, BruceVC said:

About 85 % of the UK is white. If you look at countries like China, Russia, India, Mexico, the ME and all African countries you will notice their are also minority ethnic groups in these countries but the presidents, leaders and  prime ministers are almost always the main ethnic group 

Would you say all these countries are examples of intuitional racism because they dont have minority leadership ?

Yes, institutional racism is very much phenomenon that happens everywhere.

But the question was not if UK is somehow exceptionally bad on this front, but if UK is somehow has been able to solve such issues and minorities there don't face any disadvantages because of institutional issues.

Reading the report I noticed that they try to make things look better than they are by excluding many common factors from their study like family influence, socioeconomic background and religion, as they don't any way analyze why these factors are more common among minorities than among majority. 

But of course it is true that poor are poor because they are poor and therefore there is no need for putting any effort to analyze why people are poor in first place.

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5 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Yes, institutional racism is very much phenomenon that happens everywhere.

But the question was not if UK is somehow exceptionally bad on this front, but if UK is somehow has been able to solve such issues and minorities there don't face any disadvantages because of institutional issues.

Reading the report I noticed that they try to make things look better than they are by excluding many common factors from their study like family influence, socioeconomic background and religion, as they don't any way analyze why these factors are more common among minorities than among majority. 

But of course it is true that poor are poor because they are poor and therefore there is no need for putting any effort to analyze why people are poor in first place.

Good response, I agree with most of what you saying 8)

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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You get that fun argument on exactly how to balance things out and "level the playing field." Short term processes to resolve it can cause issues in the long term and heighten racial / ethnic divides.

You want to make sure the minorities are not put at a disadvantage, and have the same opportunities as the majority.  But depending on how you go about it, you can then end up where chunks of the population feel that the tail wags the dog.

To use the very rough metaphor;  You have a group of 10 people. 2 of them are a minority, and have suffered a history of persecution and potential unconsidered discrimination. To balance it out, in any decision they get to have 3 votes each. The 8 remaining only have 1 vote each, and because of that, start to feel aggravated with the 2, which causes them to act out on the minority.

Long-term solutions and social psychology are a bitch to work with, and there is rarely a clean and simple answer to it.

Also of note that you might find interesting @BruceVC

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-lammy-lbc-african-caribbean-english-b1824029.html

The Labour MP David Lammy has been commended for calmly explaining to someone that his African-Caribbean heritage, and the fact he is black, does not stop him also being English.
“I want my identities recognised appropriately ... I’m of African descent, African-Caribbean descent but I am English.”
“Britain, 400 years ago, started going out into the world, colonised and conquered a lot of the world, a lot of the world has ended up coming back to the mother country ... when I took a DNA test, I had Scottish in me.
“Here I am, having grown up in this country, born of this country, and actually the truth is there’s a myth there’s one English ethnicity, there’s not.”
He continued: “England has always been a country where Huguenots, Danes, all sorts have passed through ... for me, the fact that I was born here and the fact that my sensibilities are English mean I want to claim that heritage as well.”
“Just as you can be in America and be African-American, or you can be Italian-American, or you can be Irish-American, how is it that here in England, you can only claim that Englishness if you are white?”

 

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"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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1 hour ago, Raithe said:

 

To use the very rough metaphor;  You have a group of 10 people. 2 of them are a minority, and have suffered a history of persecution and potential unconsidered discrimination. To balance it out, in any decision they get to have 3 votes each. The 8 remaining only have 1 vote each, and because of that, start to feel aggravated with the 2, which causes them to act out on the minority.

Long-term solutions and social psychology are a bitch to work with, and there is rarely a clean and simple answer to it.

Also of note that you might find interesting @BruceVC

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-lammy-lbc-african-caribbean-english-b1824029.html

 

 

Raithe thanks  for participating  in this debate, I know you dont often get involved in our political debates so I appreciate the time you taking now to share your view and its important to me because you live in the UK so your lived experience, irrespective of who agrees or disagrees with it, matters. My family in the UK share my view so its also good to hear other British residents views 

That link is interesting but also annoying because of course you can be African-Caribbean and be English, English is not a race and I dont know about you but its such a stupid suggestion to make its annoying :shrugz:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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You'd be surprised, and again, a lot of government forms have English as its own ethnic tick box. So on the one hand you have that everyone knows English is not a race or ethnicity, but at the same time, it gets treated that why by certain check marks and forms.

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"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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18 hours ago, BruceVC said:

So I am  definitely not concerned with all young people, I just am concerned with the large groups of young people who seem to lack direction or focus on things and crusades that are Internet based but dont lead to real change. How do we reach out to these young people...what motivates them?

 

You are wrong though to be concerned with young people, millennials are the best generation, they're just not yet ready to make their mark on the world as a whole, I mean most industries and whatnot are still run by boomers or gen-x.

Edited by ComradeYellow

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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1 hour ago, ComradeYellow said:

millennials are the best generation

🤣

 

(sorry)

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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4 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Seems overly dramatic, but how does the public safety look in US now? 

Is it really going more into direction of a Third World country? 

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/americas-cities-are-being-turned-into-crime-ridden-war-zones-and-murder-rates-are-way-up-again-in-2021/

It's getting so bad, they limit attendance to soccer games. Heh.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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9 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

I didnt click the link, but "the economic collapse blog dot com" made me lol. :lol: 

You gotta monitor every info stream and filter out bull**** from facts. Yeah, the blog sounds ridiculous. 

 

However, you can't ignore what a portion of populace thinks and what they weight their rationalle on, otherwise you miss out on certain behavioral patterns. (and then get Trump as president for example) 

 

This piece though does highlight some items, which seem to be less visible, like crime rates etc. hence a questiion, how visible that is to residents. 

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 Hm, Megadeth should be banned for all the mass murderers that posted their songs.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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9 minutes ago, Malcador said:

 Hm, Megadeth should be banned for all the mass murderers that posted their songs.

And because they suck.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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3 minutes ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

And because they suck.

Hey now, Rust In Peace is art. 

 

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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5 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

There is some real mental gymnastics happening on that one. What is your point in posting this?

Don’t ask questions you don’t really want to hear the answer to!

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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This is the age of cults of disbelief.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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54 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

What is your point in posting this?

Probably some variation of "they will not replace us".

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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So anyone have an idea how close to accurate this is? The 'wants' get cheaper, the 'needs' get more expensive...

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"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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I don’t believe food or beverage has actually become more expensive. Not for staple tape stuff anyway. Cell phone service has definitely become cheaper. That’s more due to competition, decrease in equipment cost to provide service, definite decrease in power requirements for service providers, and in general they are moving away from a macro cell concept to a micro cell-concept. All of these are reaping savings in provider cost which translate into savings and user costs. TVs are cheaper because they are a lighter, use far less material, are less expensive to mass produce, etc. it completely screwed the pooch on the cost of new cars. That is going nowhere but up. For the most part it’s right but not for any reasons you might infer from the presentation

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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I have to admit, its my lazy. I could spend an hour researching it properly on the internet.

Or I can go "that might be interesting, I'll throw it on the forum, and watch the arguments to find out more detail"...    ;)

"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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39 minutes ago, Raithe said:

So anyone have an idea how close to accurate this is? The 'wants' get cheaper, the 'needs' get more expensive...

Ex5tJUyWYAMYscz?format=jpg&name=900x900

Technically, housing is an asset, which holds value and usually appreciates in value faster than regular goods, however it should still not outpace inflation more than other asset classes like value stocks or precious metals, otherwise it becomes an investment asset, which is wrong in principle. 

Also the components for building a house comprise many different cost classes (materials, labor, transport, land, etc.) 

 

What should be looked at, in terms of housing inflation is the rate of rent cost increases. 

 

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47 minutes ago, Raithe said:

I have to admit, its my lazy. I could spend an hour researching it properly on the internet.

Or I can go "that might be interesting, I'll throw it on the forum, and watch the arguments to find out more detail"...    ;)

I did that too sometimes. But then Gromnir comes after me with a rolled up newspaper and it turns into a page long argument that become too tedious to continue. The chuckles were not worth the aggravation! :lol:

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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