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The All Things Political Thread (One thread to rule them all and in the darkness bind them)


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5 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

The more people demand it, the more valuable it gets. 

 

Hence, reduce the demand. It will also work miracles on the general healthcare costs, if less people will be fat slobs. 

Yes this is the basic rule of the free market and the principle of supply and demand, when their is a demand for something it can directly impact the price. And if that service or items suddenly become scarce then the price goes up but if the item is freely available their is no market driven reason the price should go up  

You can see this directly in the oil price, when their is an abundance of oil production the oil price stays low. But when OPEC and other oil producers slowdown on oil production the oil price rises 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Dropping demand will just increase its price, because drug companies like to have steady income and they don't care if people bankrupt because they need to pay thousands of dollars for one dollar medicine because they don't have any alternatives if they want to live

Companies will not price themselves out of the market - a dead customer is not a paying one. 

If they have money (thanks gov!) and are willing to pay it, then they will not have any incentive to reduce the price. 

Sure, if there are monopolistic ractices, hit them with an anti-trust probe and fine them, and address the ability to run the monopolistic abusive practice. 

Easiest way though, is just stigmatize fatness in culture and promote healthy lifestyle. (this includes cigaretes, alcohol and drugs). 

Otherwise you will continue to have runaway healthcare costs and medicine costs... 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Companies will not price themselves out of the market - a dead customer is not a paying one. 

If they have money (thanks gov!) and are willing to pay it, then they will not have any incentive to reduce the price. 

Sure, if there are monopolistic ractices, hit them with an anti-trust probe and fine them, and address the ability to run the monopolistic abusive practice. 

Easiest way though, is just stigmatize fatness in culture and promote healthy lifestyle. (this includes cigaretes, alcohol and drugs). 

Otherwise you will continue to have runaway healthcare costs and medicine costs... 

 

 

 

 

they can't price themselves out market where they don't have competition because US government don't let new companies on the market

These two aren't even close match

image.png.9a859fdde2cacfe3aad48a4ed5c4d7bb.png

https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/pdfs/data/statistics/national-diabetes-statistics-report.pdf

Image

Edited by Elerond
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5 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Easiest way though, is just stigmatize fatness in culture and promote healthy lifestyle. (this includes cigaretes, alcohol and drugs).

Cognac excluded! 👀

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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31 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

The more people demand it, the more valuable it gets. 

 

Hence, reduce the demand. It will also work miracles on the general healthcare costs, if less people will be fat slobs. 

It's corporate ********ery and hardon for profits, a fubar healthcare system and patent system at the costs of human lives that's at hand, not inflation or supply and demand.

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken

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1 minute ago, Azdeus said:

It's corporate ********ery and hardon for profits, a fubar healthcare system and patent system at the costs of human lives that's at hand, not inflation or supply and demand.

I constantly hear this criticism about profit being a bad thing. Its not accurate and doesn't reflect how any of our societies work. Firstly you have to profitable if you are a listed company for several reasons

  • Your shareholders expect their investment to not lose money. The ability of a listed company to make its target is based on it reaching its yearly target which is normally 12-18 % of the previous yearly target. Which means it needs to " make profit " to reach its yearly target
  • You cannot pay dividends, hire new people, award bonuses or grow the company without making profit as that means you now running at a loss because your expenses cannot exceed your revenue stream

I am trying to explain why profitability matters in  a simple way. The concern needs to be unreasonable margin on goods that make the  purchasing price unfairly too high.

But their is no normal business model where we should believe " making a profit is a bad thing " 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Elerond said:

they can't price themselves out market where they don't have competition because US government don't let new companies on the market

These two aren't even close match

image.png.9a859fdde2cacfe3aad48a4ed5c4d7bb.png

Image

Sure, if you consider that in 2000 the total number would be roughly 22.5mil (quick count, not precise one), while in 2020 you'd have total number of ca 43mil then that's only near DOUBLE the demand. The price increase might not seem justified, however, with such trends, increased demand and more cash in the system, compnies do not feel they need to keep the price stable and increasing demand gives them room for price hikes of lets say 10% YoY (which over 20y would be 600%+ of the baseline). If they will make it 15 or 20 % YoY the change is even more dramatic over an extended period of time. 

 

Sure, put in some anti-monopolistic check, but also understand that increasing demand will drive prices higher. How production capabilities have changed over years? Do you know how much they can produce? 

Edited by Darkpriest
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10 minutes ago, majestic said:

Never mind, not worth it.

This is a debate, say what you think it relevant to the discussion :thumbsup:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

 

Sure, put in some anti-monopolistic check, but also understand that increasing demand will drive prices higher. How production capabilities have changed over years? Do you know how much they can produce? 

Yes but you wont generally see price increases when their is a demand and an availability of most goods

For example bread and milk is always in demand yet the price remains stable and sometimes fixed in some countries like SA

But if their was a shortage of milk and bread then the price will increase and also if the ingredients needed to make the goods becomes more expensive then the price will also go up like transport costs or when you import grain which is fixed on a global Dollar price so if your local  currency starts to weaken this will impact inflation and the price of bread when you have to import grain .....like we do in SA 

Edited by BruceVC
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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Sure, if you consider that in 2000 the total number would be roughly 22.5mil (quick count, not precise one), while in 2020 you'd have total number of ca 43mil then that's only near DOUBLE the demand. The price increase might not seem justified, however, with such trends, increased demand and more cash in the system, compnies do not feel they need to keep the price stable and increasing demand gives them room for price hikes of lets say 10% YoY (which over 20y would be 600%+ of the baseline). If they will make it 15 or 20 % YoY the change is even more dramatic over an extended period of time. 

 

Sure, put in some anti-monopolistic check, but also understand that increasing demand will drive prices higher. How production capabilities have changed over years? Do you know how much they can produce? 

increase in demand from 2000 (~17 million) to 2016 (~29 million) was ~71%, but price of insulin rise about 600% even though it become easier, faster and cheaper to produce during that time.

Also

 In 2012, the average cost of insulin per diabetes patient was $2,864 per year. By 2016, it had risen to $5,705.

https://www.singlecare.com/blog/insulin-prices/

https://healthcostinstitute.org/diabetes-and-insulin/spending-on-individuals-with-type-1-diabetes-and-the-role-of-rapidly-increasing-insulin-prices (geo blocked in EU, needs US vpn to read)

image.thumb.png.5d490d1a2f45be8820b4b8517213816f.png

During this time of price doubling demand rise in US from ~25 million to ~29 million so ~16%

Also when you look how price of long-acting insulin has increased and 

insulin prices lantus levemir V2

short-acting analog insulins

insulin prices humalog novolog V2

https://www.businessinsider.com/rising-insulin-prices-track-competitors-closely-2016-9?r=UK

It is interesting how all four products prices seem to constantly stay about same price, also it doesn't seem to have any impact if the insulin is long lasting or short lasting and new competitor on market in 2005, didn't drop price even though supply increased.

Global manufacturing capacity of insulin far exceeds demand of insulin, but 90% of global insulin markets are dominated by three companies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6593686/

 

 

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I looked briefly at their reporting. 

https://e.lilly/3qPBtOE

seems their NI dwindled in 2020 compared to 2019. 

You'd probably need an access to a detailed statment AND do some YoY analysis. Maybe you can find it in full at EDGAR and do some research. 

But if their OPEX as % lowered and NI as a % also reduced, it means they are losing somewhere their margin level or some non-operating costs are higher. 

With half their income coming from diabieties, it means that they are doing less profitable business in other areas, or margins on the diabities are not as outragous as some would claim. 

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17 minutes ago, Elerond said:

image.png.ffbf60250da3d03bb307b44c4c44f6aa.png

6% revenue increase in year seems quite high 

Is it? How much of it is price increase and how much the volume? What's the associated CoS/CoGS? That does not show the Net reve increase. 

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7 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Is it? How much of it is price increase and how much the volume? What's the associated CoS/CoGS? That does not show the Net reve increase. 

Last year there was decrease of demand of insulin because of covid-19, but still their over 11 billion dollar revenue that they get from diabetic treatments increased 6%. Although they say that growth was mainly because of Trulicity (which increase body's own insulin production) and Jardiance (which decrease amount sugar that is absorbed by body). Both are meant to decrease amount of supplement insulin that diabetic needs. Trulicity is more expensive than insulin (at least here) and Jardiance doesn't work alone but also needs either insulin or Trulicity or both as part of treatment.

 

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/03/25/fact-check-false-claim-cnns-boulder-coverage-used-altered-image/7000497002/

@Skarpen

I read your post in the Jokes section and initially I was annoyed that CNN would make such a claim but it turns out that image was altered and CNN never reported on the Colorado shooting like that 

I am not sure if you know that? When we see blatant anti-white sentiment and racist  comments towards white people  its important for those of us who are concerned with these comments that we focus on the real offensive comments and not those that are made up and fabricated  8)

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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3 hours ago, majestic said:

Never mind, not worth it.

Should be the motto of this subforum.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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1 minute ago, Malcador said:

Should be the motto of this subforum.

Yet here we are with people still taking the time on seemingly inconsequential topics to say things like " never mind, not worth it " 

People want to discuss politics and will continue to discuss politics, no one is forcing you to get involved or say " I dont care about this topic" 

I hope this makes sense ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Just now, BruceVC said:

Yet here we are with people still taking the time on seemingly inconsequential topics to say things like " never mind, not worth it " 

People want to discuss politics and will continue to discuss politics, no one is forcing you to get involved or say " I dont care about this topic" 

I hope this makes sense ?

Well, it's a congress of brick walls, and he edited his post so it's clear he wrote something earlier.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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5 hours ago, Raithe said:

Well maybe not strictly political per se but at a tangent..

 

 

I was going to make a bootstraps joke about how disease is a choice, but it looks like the dip**** brigade is doing that unironically.

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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

"Get some poor minorities, that keeps WASPs away easy." - Malcador

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Every year my cycling group participates in the Tour de Cure to raise money for Diabetes research. We just started fundraising for the year. Last year I raised about $800 and as a group we broke the $30k mark. We ended up with an 80-mile ride with about 6,000 feet of climbing, so hopefully that fits DP's definition of a healthy lifestyle. Contributions are greatly appreciated: http://main.diabetes.org/site/TR?px=15363308&pg=personal&fr_id=13306

Diabetes: You are NOT alone. General Diabetes Statistics - Gluxus Health -  COMFORTAID

 

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