Weird, random, interesting

[Zoraptor]

Definitely time for the dead wood to be cut. All the Russian modules should be removed and then we'll see whose bits of the ISS last longest.

[rjshae]

I wouldn't mind seeing an effort at extending the longest continual human presence in space by adding new modules to the ISS, then later detaching some of those to start a new station. There's no reason it can't continue that way indefinitely, if only for historical prestige reasons.

[Gfted1]

German court sets trial date for former Nazi guard, aged 100.

[Gorth]

3 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

German court sets trial date for former Nazi guard, aged 100.

And you thought the tax authorities were persistent

[Guard Dog]

 

[Gorth]

I suppose there are hobbies and there are hobbies!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58077039

"The defendant, 84, has been handed a suspended prison sentence of 14 months and has been ordered to pay a fine of €250,000 (£213,469).

Officials found the tank and other World War Two-era military equipment at the defendant's house in the northern town of Heikendorf in 2015.

The army had to help remove the items.

On Monday, the court ordered that the defendant, who cannot be named under German privacy laws, must sell or donate the tank and an anti-aircraft cannon to a museum or collector within the next two years."

 

No constitutional rights to have tanks and anti anti-aircraft cannons at home in Germany by the looks of it

[Sarex]

23 minutes ago, Gorth said:

I suppose there are hobbies and there are hobbies!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58077039

"The defendant, 84, has been handed a suspended prison sentence of 14 months and has been ordered to pay a fine of €250,000 (£213,469).

Officials found the tank and other World War Two-era military equipment at the defendant's house in the northern town of Heikendorf in 2015.

The army had to help remove the items.

On Monday, the court ordered that the defendant, who cannot be named under German privacy laws, must sell or donate the tank and an anti-aircraft cannon to a museum or collector within the next two years."

 

No constitutional rights to have tanks and anti anti-aircraft cannons at home in Germany by the looks of it

They couldn't find what to charge him with for 4 years.

[Amentep]

So he's a collector and they're telling him he must sell or donate to a museum or a...collector?

Yes, I assume they mean a collector outside of Germany whose local laws allow them to own the items, but you'd think they'd bother to point that out...

[Sarex]

16 minutes ago, Amentep said:

So he's a collector and they're telling him he must sell or donate to a museum or a...collector?

Yes, I assume they mean a collector outside of Germany whose local laws allow them to own the items, but you'd think they'd bother to point that out...

There is interest from an US museum for the tank and some German collector wants the anti-air gun.

[Amentep]

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

There is interest from an US museum for the tank and some German collector wants the anti-air gun.

So is the issue that he just didn't have the proper permits?  Or was storing it in an disallowed area?  Why is it not okay for him to have it but a different German collector could have the anti-air gun?  

[Sarex]

9 minutes ago, Amentep said:

So is the issue that he just didn't have the proper permits?  Or was storing it in an disallowed area?  Why is it not okay for him to have it but a different German collector could have the anti-air gun?  

No clue, he had permits from the local mayor, but it's illegal to own weapons of war in Germany, so I have no clue how another collector can have it. From what I remember they caught him when there was a nation wide sting to recover stolen Nazi art, but he didn't even get the tank from Germany, it's the British variant that he salvaged from Britain and restored it.

[Amentep]

8 minutes ago, Sarex said:

No clue, he had permits from the local mayor, but it's illegal to own weapons of war in Germany, so I have no clue how another collector can have it. From what I remember they caught him when there was a nation wide sting to recover stolen Nazi art, but he didn't even get the tank from Germany, it's the British variant that he salvaged from Britain and restored it.

Weird.  Thanks for the information; the linked article was confusing, and it seems the situation itself may just be confusing even with your added information.

[majestic]

No, that's not it, the article is simply incomplete.

The extreme time it took to process the case actually came from having to figure out whether tanks and anti-aircraft guns on their own constitue a weapon of war and therefore would fall under the Kriegswaffenkontrollgesetz (lit. weapons of war control* law). Turns out they don't. He was convicted based on the other items they found at his home. Machine gun parts, ammunition, the works. 

Donating the tank and gun to a museum or some other eligible collector is part of his parole. That should clear up any confusion. If he just had the tank and the AA gun he'd been good. Hence some other German being allowed to take the AA gun.

*As in regulation.

[Sarex]

9 minutes ago, majestic said:

No, that's not it, the article is simply incomplete.

The extreme time it took to process the case actually came from having to figure out whether tanks and anti-aircraft guns on their own constitue a weapon of war and therefore would fall under the Kriegswaffenkontrollgesetz (lit. weapons of war control* law). Turns out they don't. He was convicted based on the other items they found at his home. Machine gun parts, ammunition, the works. 

Donating the tank and gun to a museum or some other eligible collector is part of his parole. That should clear up any confusion. If he just had the tank and the AA gun he'd been good. Hence some other German being allowed to take the AA gun.

*As in regulation.

I thought he could sell them.

[majestic]

3 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I thought he could sell them.

Right, my bad. He has to sell them as part of his parole (within the next 24 months), and probably because the court realized that they're not really get the fine from a 84 year old otherwise.

[Malcador]

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Malcador

[Raithe]

[Raithe]

 

[Amentep]

Yikes.  Puritan is a group term; it covers the protestants who felt the Church of England was too closely tied in form and function to the Roman Catholic church and should be reformed (or, literally, purified of the Catholic influence).

The Mayflower pilgrims were Brownists (aka separatist Puritans) who initially wanted to move to Newfoundland, but eventually moved to Amsterdam in 1607 when Cromwell was 8.  Their motivation for leaving was the execution of Henry Barrow and John Greenwood (who'd founded the Brownest movement after the teachings of Robert Browne).  The movement, like all puritan groups, wanted to to reform the church and in particular have repealed he Act of Uniformity (1559) that made it illegal to miss church functions.  They became prosecuted after the Act Against Puritans (1593) which made it so that not attending the functions of the Church of England could ultimately lead to execution

The Brownists actually had three going churches in Amsterdam, a protestant stronghold in Europe at the time, but had problems with supporting themselves and a desire to conduct missionary work and an internal split; part became the early Baptist church, with the others splitting between leaders with two groups ultimately leaving for the Americas ~1620, one to what is now Virginia, and one to Massachusetts.

Cromwell, meanwhile, didn't officially become associated with Puritanism until 1630, 10 years after the Brownists hit America.  For his part, Cromwell was considered part of a radical Puritan bent that arose after the persecution in England and was markedly anti-Catholic and anti-Quaker.  

That's not to say the Brownists were 'good' or 'bad', but their ties with Cromwell seem to be rather tenuous (as I recall, and a quick search didn't indicate they were part of the Puritan reverse migration with Cromwell came to power).

[Gromnir]

3 minutes ago, Amentep said:

Yikes. 

this were our first thought. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

Its seems our EU, and especially UK, members lean heavily into Twitter / Facebook / GoFundMe for their education about the US.

[Raithe]

It's more lightly amusing how things get framed.

As mentioned, puritan came in a few varieties back in the day. But yes, puritans as a whole tend to be painted with more of an extremist edge in school over here. While it isn't a huge point made, it is briefly covered that one of the key issues to puritans leaving the rolling green shores of England to head to the new world was in part because how stressed they were getting over all the religious tolerance laws that were being put in place. Not that they were universally tolerant laws, but more an attempt to tone down the various protestant/catholic squabbles and just happened to cover a few other areas.

But it's like anything taught. You get "one key element" and then they skim over a bunch of the other elements.

 

[Gromnir]

in the twitter silliness the plymouth rock pilgrims, who were as amentep observes, separatists as 'posed to reformers, is being conflated with the blanket descriptor o' "puritan" which is inappropriate on multiple levels, but to be fair, the "puritans," who were indeed being persecuted in england were, as often as not, intolerant d-bags once they got to the americas. 

America’s True History of Religious Tolerance

any kinda american religious tolerance weren't a thing until 1777 when thomas jefferson (whom we admitted criticize frequent on these boards) pushed back against an effort to make christianity the official state religion o' virginia as well as a proposed mandate to teach christianity in the "state." is first time we saw an effort at legislating state-wide religious tolerance in what eventual became the USA.  previous to 1777, the norm were cold religious bigotry punctuated by all too frequent actual bloody conflict. 1786 sees adoption o' the Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom, and if that were the only positive thing jefferson ever accomplished, from our pov it would be enough to be deserving o' monuments in his memory. 

the term religious extremist is a bit loaded. different. the puritans (again a terrible overbroad descriptor) were indeed persecuted and faced draconian punishments for even minor slights against the anglican church in england. extreme 'cause they wouldn't conform. once those persecuted people reached the americas, they immediate began persecuting indians and each other. look to the experience o' the quakers who were persecuted in england, and new england, and you are gonna have a hard time accusing them o' the great evils the twitter excerpt seems to feel justified the treatment o' the puritans. the persecution in england and the colonies had little do with extremism. different alone deserved persecution.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

[Malcador]

Wonder what the Irish learn about Cromwell.

[Raithe]

4 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Wonder what the Irish learn about Cromwell.

Pretty much this from what I've heard...

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Raithe