Politics... US election edition (2020 almost over, read all about it!)

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Just now, IndiraLightfoot said:

For once, I am shocked. Storming Capitol Hill. What is this? Some near-future dystopic computer game? What happened with that superb security that the US usually excels in?

It only gets used on leftists and Black people.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I see, turning a blind eye. Not exactly a stellar choice of place and time for that, though? While the world is watching...

[Elerond]

Just now, IndiraLightfoot said:

For once, I am shocked. Storming Capitol Hill. What is this? Some near-future dystopic computer game? What happened with that superb security that the US usually excels in?

Last four years they have done their best that there are only Trump supporters working in all governmental organizations , so security probably is part of those who are storming in the Capitol

[IndiraLightfoot]

This is truly a sad day for US democracy. Violent protesters trying to shut down a lawful election process.

[BruceVC]

8 minutes ago, IndiraLightfoot said:

For once, I am shocked. Storming Capitol Hill. What is this? Some near-future dystopic computer game? What happened with that superb security that the US usually excels in?

The police were initially overwhelmed by the sheer numbers but they will get it under control, they also have to consider and first protect all the members of the Congress

This has nothing to do with race but an initial lack of resources and they were surprised by the level of violence and caught off-guard 

[BruceVC]

7 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Last four years they have done their best that there are only Trump supporters working in all governmental organizations , so security probably is part of those who are storming in the Capitol

Elerond !!! Im shocked by your anti-American sentiment....I thought we agreed we would only be anti-American when it was absolutely necessary ....please dont be naughty again 

[Malcador]

40 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Fair enough. But just for the record what would you call the 3 months of protests in Portland where shops were closed and some were vandalized, cops were injured and attacked, protestors were injured and some arrested for breaking the law and Federal buildings were also vandalized. What would you call that ?

Not sure if one term encompasses all of that, but isn't a city in anarchy.  

 

 

 

Uh...and some woman was shot

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Malcador

[rjshae]

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

His hard-core followers are like a physical manifestation of Trump's mental illness.

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Malcador said:

Not sure if one term encompasses all of that, but isn't a city in anarchy.  

 

 

If the National Guard needs to be deployed then they must definitely do it

One guy even got onto the floor of where they were debating, he was arrested 

[Elerond]

Just now, BruceVC said:

Elerond !!! Im shocked by your anti-American sentiment....I thought we agreed we would only be anti-American when it was absolutely necessary ....please dont be naughty again 

Sorry but I need to correct you, I am just speaking alternate patriotic truth by stating that true patriotic Capitol troops support true and only leader of America, God Emperor Trump 

 

[IndiraLightfoot]

This is not the kind of images any country wants to spread from their very heart of democracy and the moment a new president is about to be elected:

Edited January 6, 2021 by IndiraLightfoot

[HoonDing]

yeah, Amerika never gets to lecture anyone on anything again

[Hurlshort]

27 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Congratulations MAGA. You guys are as big a mob of violent animals as ANTIFI. Way to go.

Soooooo much bigger. When did ANTIFA occupy anything near this scale?

[Raithe]

 

[BruceVC]

2 minutes ago, Elerond said:

Sorry but I need to correct you, I am just speaking alternate patriotic truth by stating that true patriotic Capitol troops support true and only leader of America, God Emperor Trump 

 

Thats a clever comment and funny too 

[Zoraptor]

The US did use the Roman Republic as a model. Invading the Capitol with a mob was a pretty established tradition there especially in the later republic when the strain was showing.

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Soooooo much bigger. When did ANTIFA occupy anything near this scale?

Oh no Antifa was involved in months of violence and criminal behavior, its seems silly to compare them because they both guilty of criminal acts but Antifa is much worse because of the length of time they committed violence 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

9 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Soooooo much bigger. When did ANTIFA occupy anything near this scale?

This brings up a good comparison. When "antifa" vandalized the CNN sign in Atlanta the National Guard got called in. The MAGAs are storming the capital armed and the DOD declined a request to send in the National Guard.*see edit The gaps in relation to power (you can see prominent politicians with Proud Boys and 3%ers) and the response from authority should provide a stark comparison between antifa and MAGA.

EDIT: MSNBC got it wrong, National Guard is being deployed to DC.

Edited January 6, 2021 by KaineParker

[BruceVC]

8 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

yeah, Amerika never gets to lecture anyone on anything again

That seems like an unreasonable thing to ask for ?

[HoonDing]

This is turning into some bizarro reverse Tianmanen.

[Darkpriest]

Sadly, this is not unexpected or it was even predictable. The worst part is, that this would happen no matter who won. Both sides are so heavily polarized, that they are almost at a point of no reconciliation. 

Years of demonizing each other. 

Again, we saw partisianship, when it comes to voilence before. When autonomous zones were established, when governmental property was destroyed, when citties were looted etc. it was a "right to express". It was predictable, that such stance will only enrage the other side of population as they are treated unequally. 

The long lockdowns and rules for thee but not for me also put more powder to that keg. 

Lets hope it will get diffused onstead of detonated. 

 

IHowever it already shows, that there is little united i  the USA. China and Russia will use this and fuel secretly from the sidelines. 

 

It is not yet so bad, that they could challange US openly. However in 2 decades at best 5ys at worst, there will be a significant shift of power center in the geopolitics. 

 

Paradoxically, the socialist and extreme PC culture, which claims need for tolerance (as long as it is our tolerance) led to once united and homogenous societies with clear sets of values got oblitarated. The source of their past success is damaged and with little drive to rebuild it. Too much focus on consumption and egocentrizm.

 

[Malcador]

Trumpie won a stupid prize -

 

[majestic]

 

12 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Paradoxically, the socialist and extreme PC culture, which claims need for tolerance (as long as it is our tolerance) led to once united and homogenous societies with clear sets of values got oblitarated. The source of their past success is damaged and with little drive to rebuild it. Too much focus on consumption and egocentrizm.

[Elerond]

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1346920198461419520

My **** post seems to be closer the truth than I thought

[Zoraptor]

3 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

US gave Al-Qaeda a start by funding them in the late 80's through the 90's. The Obama admiration did the same thing ISIS. They didn't even exist and until the US gave them weapons.

ISIS existed from 2005, it's a direct successor to Zarqawi's Al Qaeda in Iraq. Which was a separate entity which joined Al Qaeda as a franchisee so probably 2005 is the fairest time for its establishment. It became the Islamic State in Iraq, then ISIS, then formally 'Dawlah' IS as a 'Caliphate' once they reinvaded Iraq from Syria and took Mosul.

Now, the rest is more interesting. ISI under Baghdadi sent support to the Syrian rebels- Jabhat al Nusra, the 'Support Front', now Hayat Tahrir al Sham and supposedly independent of Al Qaeda (now officially Hurras ad Din, in Syria)- while it was still under the umbrella of Al Qaeda, its very name tells you that it did exist before the US gave them weapons, though it was not significant at the start. They had a lot of success though since they were ruthless, got support from US allies and eventually grew. In 2013/4 JaN split along the lines of Al Qaeda and ISIS loyalties, and a bunch of other groups joined ISIS, they reinvaded Iraq and took Mosul etc then became enemy #1.

In terms of support for ISIS/ JaN from the US, there was quite a lot of it though most of it was clandestine and indirect, and hence deniable. By the measure of the US itself they definitely supported ISIS- almost all the top ISIS leaders including Baghdadi were held and released by the US previously, they operated with impunity for years and were armed and trained via operations like Timber Sycamore. Ironically, these are exactly the accusations the US levels at Iran to show they support Al Qaeda... To be fair, most of the arming and training done was to 'moderate rebels' that somehow despite the no doubt careful vetting joined decidedly non moderate ISIS later, and not directly to JaN, though they certainly knew that US allies (Turkey, Qatar) were supporting JaN directly. That is also the source of the infamous 'McCain meets Baghdadi' photo, while it isn't Baghdadi the 'moderate rebels' he was photographed with went on to become senior ISIS leaders. The US never, bar one occasion, significantly bombed IS if they were attacking the 'correct' targets and infamously never targeted their main source of revenue, oil, since most of that money was going to/ from Erdogan's son. The one occasion in which they did attack ISIS on a frontline with Assad they 'accidentally' attacked Assad's troops instead, and handed ISIS the main defensive position overlooking Deir Ez Zor airport. Indeed, that attack persisted so long that the Russians allegedly only stopped it by directly threatening to shoot down the Danish and Australian planes involved, after the senior US officer on the deescalation line was for some reason absent for 45 minutes.

Overall there's no doubt in the slightest that the US under Obama was at minimum fine with ISIS, so long as it was attacking Shia militia and Assad, supported those who later joined it as 'moderate rebels' and even post Caliphate declaration tolerated it, so long as it was threatening their mutual enemies. It was only when they started threatening US interests that they became an evil that had to be stopped. It's very doubtful that Obama had any direct operational knowledge of most of this, but then if you use that excuse for him you have to use that excuse for Bush as well.