What I want in Avowed

[Armon]

I know there might be another post with something similar to what mine is but I wanted to start fresh.

I've heard it said on many YouTube videos that Avowed is going toe to toe with Elder scrolls and if that is ultimately true then here is my list of what I want to see done in Avowed that wasn't done right in ES.

CRAFTING -

I want to see a more expanded crafting system, if I hunt Deer or Boar then I want Deer hide/ Boar hide to be a useable crafting material offering different stats/bonuses when crafting.

The crafting system must include a far more expanded list of items, for example in ES - Here is the materials needed to craft leather armor - craft it in the one style with same materials - now you're done. There is no other style or materials that could alter the appearance or bonuses on that armor. If I kill a Dragon in Avowed and loot Dragon hide then craft Dragon hide leather armor - I want it to not only look different from bear hide leather armor and again look different from boar hide leather armor but on top of that I want the hide to offer bonuses like +str +res + major fire resist* with an armor value fitting dragon hide. Troll hide leather armor could offer me +str +con +average regen buff with an armor value fitting troll hide.

The same applies to weapons, I want to craft different weapon parts to mix and match making a 1h I craft at lvl 3 look different from the next 1h I decide to make at lvl 10 and so on ...

This system should be applied to blacksmithing offering different types of ore with different bonuses and buffs.

STORAGE & PLAYER HOMES-

I know there won't be an infinite storage box in Avowed (unless it's a magical storage box we summon at any time) and that there will be more likely player homes or temporary storage devices until we as the player get a more permanent setup.

This topic falls back on crafting as I want to be able to craft different size backpacks, satchels, bandoliers with the different types of leathers that will be available in world and again offering me different sizes and storage space.

Player homes - this is something I felt Bethesda seriously failed at with Hearthfire offering players 3 homes in identical locations with the exact same building options only through mods was I able to change locations or add further building options. ( I saw that Avowed will support mods  8D Awesome).  I want player homes to not only be in unique locations but also offer different building options that match that region. If I buy a house that is situated next to a river then I want the option to build a fishery that can supply me with a reasonable amount and different variety of fish per day. If I buy a house that is in the mountains I want the option to build a mine that I can go to each day and mine different basic - medium ore.

LIGHTING -

This is a major requirement for me in Avowed. During my playthrough of Skyrim I tried 3 different lighting mods that each improved certain aspects of lighting in different areas/zones. For example- Lighting in towns or inside buildings where lighting is present would be very different from the lighting seen in outside areas or dungeons. While using the same mod the lighting in dungeons would be almost non existent even with torches or braziers in the area. I want dungeons to give me a sense of darkness not completely blind me so I can't even see my weapon in front of me.

I would also like the inclusion of lanterns that can be equipped to my characters belt or backpack as I won't always play a character with one free hand to use a torch  and having to switch from S&S to sword and torch breaks the immersion for me. 

SOUND -

This is another major aspect for me and is very simple to summarize - I want to hear everything and I mean EVERYTHING! I want epic music.

CLASSES -

This is an epic must have no matter the cost in the game content.

If I decide to play a chanter I want to perform those songs in taverns/inns to pay for food and temporary lodging or if Obsidian is going for a make your own class while you play route then I want "perform" as a skill that can be used in taverns/Inns. I want meaningful class quests that allow me to expand my powers/abilities or offer unique loot. If I play a rogue then I want a quest to enter a town/city to be a stealth mission - If I play a warrior then the same quest becomes an assault quest. 

QUESTS & BOUNTIES - 

As stated above I want meaningful class quests that are tailored to class I'm playing. I don't want to be playing a warrior that gets a rogue quest to sneak in to a village - HOWEVER! this line of quests is still good as it encourages additional playthroughs to see the different choices I could/should/would have made if I was that class.

Bounties - I loved this aspect in PoE & PoE2 and I want to see it return in Avowed. I want bounty boards in small towns/villages and bounty npcs in all major cities. 

 

I will continue to update this as I put my thoughts together because at the moment it's all a jumble. I'm excited for Avowed a lot more than I'm for the next ES game.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Armon

[Theonlygarby]

I'm a little torn on crafting.  I mean potions/food/clothes are one thing.  But it has always felt a little weird to me that on top of everything you do, you also have time to make a sword.  At least realism wise, you shouldn't really be able to craft a sword in a minute.  

 

I think weapon "mods" in a crafting sense would be cool.  Like POE crafting where you upgrade weapons.  That makes sense.  I certainly won't be mad if you can craft things blacksmiths should only be able to make... But also I feel like just expanding on the Skyrim model isn't my first choice.

[the_dog_days]

For crafting I'd rather see something similar to Pillars but with a dash of Gothic. You collect the materials but then have to take them to a specialist who you pay to make/upgrade the weapons and armor. As for player homes, aside from a place to stash crap I don't care for player homes.

[bradnm]

I'd like to see the ability to have companions, so I can make a team like in PoE2:Deadfire.

Effectively I want PoE3. It's what I want to spend my money on.

[Pidesco]

1 hour ago, bradnm said:

I'd like to see the ability to have companions, so I can make a team like in PoE2:Deadfire.

Effectively I want PoE3. It's what I want to spend my money on.

This isn't PoE3, though. You might as well go on Grounded's forums and say you want it to be PoE3. Avowed is not PoE3, it is something else, even if set in the same IP.

Also, that Avowed is being made doesn't mean Obsidian won't make PoE3 at some point. I certainly hope they make it.

[ovelteen]

7 hours ago, bradnm said:

I'd like to see the ability to have companions, so I can make a team like in PoE2:Deadfire.

Effectively I want PoE3. It's what I want to spend my money on.

From past experience, using companions in a first person action rpg doesn't really work. There is no way to pause the game so you can issue orders, the NPCs get in the way when you are attacking or in tight quarters, and they will suck away experience points or interfere with leveling your skills too. A horse or mule or dog to carry my goods is all I'd want in a companion.

 

Following an NPC who is involved with a side trek would be more useful in my opinion. The character has its own agenda and I'm just tagging along to help them through the tough parts. This has it's problems too. I have often spent way too much time trying to keep these characters alive, especially if they have a particularly aggressive AI.

[Pidesco]

37 minutes ago, ovelteen said:

From past experience, using companions in a first person action rpg doesn't really work. There is no way to pause the game so you can issue orders, the NPCs get in the way when you are attacking or in tight quarters, and they will suck away experience points or interfere with leveling your skills too. A horse or mule or dog to carry my goods is all I'd want in a companion.

 

Following an NPC who is involved with a side trek would be more useful in my opinion. The character has its own agenda and I'm just tagging along to help them through the tough parts. This has it's problems too. I have often spent way too much time trying to keep these characters alive, especially if they have a particularly aggressive AI.

Well, it would be fun if Obsidian pulled a fast one and made Avowed an Eye of the Beholder style game. Then you could have a proper party, and it'd still be first person.

[Undecaf]

I'm not objecting to crafting and all that, but what I would want first an fromest, before even thinking of those, is rich character systems that create the feeling that that what ever you're doing, matters some how.

One of the good things about TES games of yore, was precisely that. Even moving aroung affected character progression somehow, and the systems therein seeped into other systems, e.g. fatigue affecting chances of success in locpicking, spellcasting and hitting your targets, succesfully creating your potions, etc. That's the sort of feeling I miss in todays games. The feel of playing a PnP session where the GM means business when it comes to systems and character progression.

[kanisatha]

I'm also torn on crafting. As someone who loves "management" games, I like the idea of collecting crafting materials, and even recipes/blueprints, and then making your own things. But I also agree with the view that the PC can craft a superior-quality weapon just like that is highly unrealistic. I think crafting should be limited to consumables, and items should only be upgradable.

As for PC homesteads, I definitely love this in games. Two specific things I like is having all my companions in one place, and having a place to safely store your stuff. Relating to Skyrim, I thought the idea of being able to put on display special items or treasures or trophies was brilliant and awesome.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I want a codpiece revolver like Sex Machine in From Dusk Till Dawn.

[Daedelus451]

I'm just hoping that if it takes place before PoE 1 we'll still get our guns.

Also an actual class system instead of a bland classless one.

[the_dog_days]

3 hours ago, KaineParker said:

I want a codpiece revolver like Sex Machine in From Dusk Till Dawn.

And the ability to name weapons?

[Theonlygarby]

3 hours ago, Daedelus451 said:

I'm just hoping that if it takes place before PoE 1 we'll still get our guns.

Also an actual class system instead of a bland classless one.

If I were to guess, I'd say it will be a light class system... Though id be very happy if they actually ported classes from POE.  I imagine some wouldn't work... Bard comes to mind as it has a lot to do with buffing companions.

Judging from the little we have seen I'm doubtful though.  Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Is it just me or does avowed almost seem more tyranny than POE from the trailer/title

Edited August 18, 2020 by Theonlygarby

[thelee]

I don't really care about the specific mechanics of storage and crafting, what I really want is for them (or any game company) to hire the best UX designers they can find because pretty much every user experience for crafting has been a b y s m a l (with console releases the worst). I'm sure they have UI experts, and maybe even a UXer, but they need some serious resources and more headcount because you can have the richest crafting system in the world but if you still make me scroll through endless lists of inscrutable items trying to remember which goes where it's still gonna be mediocre.

grounded is better than some other games, but considering how big of a role crafting plays in that game it's still a struggle.

Edited August 18, 2020 by thelee

[TheisEjsing]

I don't care about crafting either. I like unique items you find during your playthrough way more. On that note I really hope we get soul bound weapons with upgrade requirements. That was a great so far, and will be a cool addition to an AAA experience.

Edited August 19, 2020 by TheisEjsing

[Boeroer]

I'd like crafting and player homes to be as absent as loading times. Unlimited stash. No romances at all. Thank you!

 

[ovelteen]

6 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

I'd like crafting and player homes to be as absent as loading times. Unlimited stash. No romances at all. Thank you!

 

I'm curious why anyone would want to dumb down a game that at some level is intended for us play a role. Having the option to play a character who crafts his or her own weapons and armor, or wishes to create potions, scrolls, or to enchant those same weapons and armor is, for me and many others, very  important in a(n) AAA game. 

As for the presence of player homes and romances, Why not? I am not inclined to indulge in either, myself, but having the opportunity to do so is probably a good thing.

Possessing an endless inventory system means that the game is merely another shallow action shooter or hack em up. There's enough of those being produced these days. 

[Wormerine]

8 minutes ago, ovelteen said:

I'm curious why anyone would want to dumb down a game that at some level is intended for us play a role. Having the option to play a character who crafts his or her own weapons and armor, or wishes to create potions, scrolls, or to enchant those same weapons and armor is, for me and many others, very  important in a(n) AAA game. 

(...)

Possessing an endless inventory system means that the game is merely another shallow action shooter or hack em up. There's enough of those being produced these days. 

I would say it depends what role-play the game offers. I am sure there is a compelling game that could be designed around crafting items/weapons. But if the game is about, lets say adventuring and exploring, sitting in workshop and having a home, seem to be oppositve to the idea. I don't think anyone would mind an interesting crafting system, but most of the time they add nothing of worth, just potentially result in more generic and boring item design and some grind. Same with inventory. I like inventory if it serves purpose. In Bethesda games, Witcher or Kingmaker, however, it doesn't. It is a system for system sake, with nothing interesting to interact with. Same with player home/keep. 

Then of course you have stuff like BG2 which seems to be often cited as an example of an RPG with crafting, inventory and player keep, while really not having any of those. The first one is used only to assamble limited set of items, has an unlimited stash in form of containers and keeps have very little content and use. Also those were really well implimented crafting, inventory and keep systems, as they didn't stop players from having fun, while being satisfying by their very existance.

If you think that the only thing that seperates a good RPG from dumb slasher is inventory system, then you must have only played Bethesda RPGs. You are missing the good stuff.

[Boeroer]

Opps sorry, I thought this was a request programme. Didn't realize one has to justify their preferences.

I would argue that you can't dumb down a game if you remove dumb things.

Not implemeting stuff that I don't like leaves more resources for the stuff that I do like. Especially if it's resource-hungry quicksand like homes/strongholds and the pale imitation of interpersonal romantic and/or sexual relationships which usually need a ton of good writing to be somewhat non-cringeworthy.

PoE and Deadfire have an unlimited stash by the way. If an unlimited stash is enough to turn a game into a shallow action shooter then PoE and Deadfire are shallow action shooters.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Enchanting would be fine. But it doesn't need to be the character who does it.

I also like if you can bring some stuff to a proper craftsman (armorer, fletcher, weapon smith and so on) who then does the crafting for you. Only a few things, not a full-fledged crafting system with rules and ingredients and recepies and whatnot.

[Theonlygarby]

1 hour ago, ovelteen said:

I'm curious why anyone would want to dumb down a game that at some level is intended for us play a role. Having the option to play a character who crafts his or her own weapons and armor, or wishes to create potions, scrolls, or to enchant those same weapons and armor is, for me and many others, very  important in a(n) AAA game. 

As for the presence of player homes and romances, Why not? I am not inclined to indulge in either, myself, but having the opportunity to do so is probably a good thing.

Possessing an endless inventory system means that the game is merely another shallow action shooter or hack em up. There's enough of those being produced these days. 

Removing crafting isnt dumbing down.  Is kingdom come more dumbed down than Skyrim?  I personally haven't really enjoyed crafting in any games... Especially if there is a weight limit because you end up with a whole lot of garbage filling up your stash in fear you might need it for crafting.

 

I think people's hesitance towards romancing is that it is never done well.  This is especially the case when you want to choose your partner.  Witcher 3 was alright I guess in that aspect, but they gave you two choices.  Nowadays you need at least a choice for every orientation known to zerr.

 

Player homes can be cool.  Though they don't really add anything to the game IMO.  I'd imagine this game will have player homes

 

POE had no weight limits... Was that a dumbed down first person shooter?  I'm fine either way... But generally the weight limits make little to no sense anyways

 

Edit: now if they did a RDR2 camp type player home that could be really cool.  Having hideouts that your cronies hang out at

Edited August 19, 2020 by Theonlygarby

[Boeroer]

I think it's a road to nowhere to try to replicate all things you can do in a tabletop game (and which might be very nice to do there) in a video game. It's a way less reactive and less fluid environment. Player homes, strongholds, open world, tons of possible reaction, "meaningful choices", consequences, relationships and so on: stuff that is fine during a tabletop campaign might be tedious to implement and even to play in a video game - even if you put a ton of work, good will and money into it. 

Stuff like inventory management, trading, buying a donkey+cart, riding a horse, getting an old ruin and rebuilding it: easy to do during tabletop sessions because the DM can always improvise, make things up and most of all: communicate a lot until it's nice. Video games cannot do that. 

I would like if CRPGs concentrated more on what they can do best: presenting nice visuals, fitting sound and music, atmosphere, telling a great story (most professional writers do that way better than DMs), presenting satisfying challenges, good game mechanics (combat, sneaking and other ways to overcome obstacles like picking locks, charming, bribing, talking, you name it).

Open world, "realistic" companion reaction and relationship, reputation, managed inventory, crafting and all that: it can be nice but those usually end up as huge expensive systems that only work so/so and don't really add much value to the game.

There are exceptions of course. For example it can be very nice to craft anything (items, food even spells) if you can actually play a craftsman/researching wizard/chef... IF the system is easy yet deep enough. The chance to nail that: pretty low.

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by Boeroer

[Armon]

15 hours ago, ovelteen said:

I'm curious why anyone would want to dumb down a game that at some level is intended for us play a role. Having the option to play a character who crafts his or her own weapons and armor, or wishes to create potions, scrolls, or to enchant those same weapons and armor is, for me and many others, very  important in a(n) AAA game. 

As for the presence of player homes and romances, Why not? I am not inclined to indulge in either, myself, but having the opportunity to do so is probably a good thing.

Possessing an endless inventory system means that the game is merely another shallow action shooter or hack em up. There's enough of those being produced these days. 

The only problem I see with having an infinite storage space on hand is that I would never need to return to town until I've amassed a kings fortune in loot. Along side this as well is that I would never need to explore the crafting system ( if there is one ). This is why I would like a player home or home base where I can store all my loot that I want to sort out later.

[Wormerine]

4 hours ago, Armon said:

The only problem I see with having an infinite storage space on hand is that I would never need to return to town until I've amassed a kings fortune in loot.

I say, if the only reason to return to town is to do chores then there is no reason to force players to go back to town. PoE2 and BG2 have players go in and out of central town while having limiteless or almost limitless storage, and they achieve it by being well designed.

[Samugol]

Since we are talking about crafting, I would like to offer my two cents. I have some experience to offer, as I have created a few mods and I feel that since I started playing, I have experienced pretty much every crafting system there was in an RPG. I agree with people here:

1. If done poorly, it is just a resource hog and it hurts the game more than it helps.

2. I completely get, that some players love it and would die by it, and others do not care whatsoever, maybe even to a point that the existence of a crafting system insults them.

Since I have been an advocate of "try to satisfy as many people as possible", I think that crafting should be part of the game, I personally like good crafting. The question is then, how do you make a good crafting system? There are quite a few things that I believe really help:

1. Crafting needs to optional, the game needs to be perfectly beatable without spending any time on crafting. The moment you force something on someone, it does not end well. Crafting should be that little extra something some people want, to fit the build better or to maybe get a sword with a couple of unique enchantments that fit a more unique playstyle.
2. Crafting needs to be locked behind certain things. Let me explain. In an elder scrolls game, where you kill the dragon, get some bones, spend an hour or two grinding crafting and voila you have the single most powerful armor in the game. This makes exploration very much meaningless because now, you are guaranteed to never find better gear than what you crafted. Instead you lock the strongest crafting recipes behind materials, that are only obtainable through some serious exploration and conquest (you want that sweet demon sword? guess what - go kill a demon, that is probably way too hard for an early level) or get that special schematic that is guarded in a high level dungeon with lots of undead etc.
3. It cannot be a grind. Crafting stuff over and over to get better at might be the real work thing, but in a game, I would rather shoot myself. You want to craft better gear? Lock it behind a skill on a level up, make it so you can only learn it from an NPC that first needs to be found or needs to complete some quest. There are plenty of ways to progress crafting without the tedium of boredom.
4. Under no circumstance, should a player be over-burdened by thousands of ingredients found everywhere. It makes a lot more sense, to have a few key ingredients that are harder to come by and need exploration. Good example is from Gothic 2. You could create powerful alchemical potions, but the main ingredient was a very rare herb "Kings sorrel" I believe it was. You could find at only a few locations, usually either very hard to find or guarded by a tough enemy. This way, player does not have to pick up 500 flowers and other nonsense. Instead there is pure joy in finding something truly unique.
5. This may not be very high for most people, but for me "fashion souls" is extremely important. I always hated the fact that in some games I was forced to wear a ridiculously looking equipment because of this or that stat. I remember that in Dragon Age Origins the best armor for an arcane warrior was golden plate... I am sure it had its fans but GOLDEN PLATE? REALLY? I felt like a medieval pimp showing his swag. Give player options to dye armor, to put unique effects on various items of clothing and armor. Make it really possible so the players are able to express themselves. I fully realize, that this may be hard as there are many models, but at this point it is a AAA game. I saw some amazing armor on artworks already so I am sure it would be doable.
6. Make crafting accessible even to players who do not heavily invest in it. For example, if a player finds unique ore, he may choose to bring it to towns blacksmith and choose things from a crafting menu (the type of weapon, some stats, shape of the blade, pommel etc.). Of course dedicated craftsmen would be able to create a similar sword but say +20% better as a reward from the skills or talents they spend on crafting. This would create so many options for different playstyles. A mage for example would craft his scrolls and enchant items but would happily pay to create some unique armor, as he would not have the appropriate talents, but would still be able to take advantage of the system. There may be characters that would like to craft everything, bus as they would spent all talent points on crafting, they would lack in some different regard. One way to not make this too OP would be to simply increase price for some stronger late game recipes. The player would have to choose carefully how to spend their hard earned money.

I am for example not a huge fan of Dragon Age Inquisition, but crafting there was very good. And if a game such as Gothic 2 is able to make a meaningful and fun crafting system, I do not see how a AAA developers 20 years down the line would not be able to do the same.

 

13 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Stuff like inventory management, trading, buying a donkey+cart, riding a horse, getting an old ruin and rebuilding it: easy to do during tabletop sessions because the DM can always improvise, make things up and most of all: communicate a lot until it's nice. Video games cannot do that. 

 

I agree with Boeroer. Video games are different and they cannot easily do that. But even PoE1 had Caed Nua, which was a lovely addition. I am sure that it took quite a bit of time to do, but it was an amazing addition that I liked. Hiring a troll to defend my own castle YES PLEASE. It was one of the many cool moments I had in PoE1. I think it is exactly about how you manage your resources and set priorities. I think that with that specific example it was a good addition. Crafting, creating player homes, riding horse can be amazing and not so resource heavy when done well with experience (which Obsidian has).

13 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Open world, "realistic" companion reaction and relationship, reputation, managed inventory, crafting and all that: it can be nice but those usually end up as huge expensive systems that only work so/so and don't really add much value to the game.

I agree that there have not been too many games that managed to do relationships well. For me the top was Fire Emblem Awakening and Mass Effect maybe But yeah, I totally get that.

 

13 hours ago, Boeroer said:

I would like if CRPGs concentrated more on what they can do best: presenting nice visuals, fitting sound and music, atmosphere, telling a great story (most professional writers do that way better than DMs), presenting satisfying challenges, good game mechanics (combat, sneaking and other ways to overcome obstacles like picking locks, charming, bribing, talking, you name it).

This is so much true. I mean working on some crazy crafting system when combat, visuals, magic and other core systems are not done well is utterly pointless. However, if these things are done well and the team has resources. It would be a waste not to do it. Take Outer Worlds. The game had great core elements, so adding simple crafting system was a great addition. I think that choosing to only alter some statics and not make completely new things was a brilliant decision. And honestly if a game like Outer Worlds can have crafting with a FRACTION of budget Avowed has, it fills me with great hope that we will not only see great crafting but other non traditional elements, that we might not even fathom at this point.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Samugol
only typos