Outer Worlds, a mediocre Fallout

[DekarServerbot]

1 minute ago, Selnor1983 said:

TOW wasn't made when Fallout 4 came out. 

My point in showing those reviews is the absolute consensus is TOW writing is fantastic. Across the board. Both with players and reviewers. 

We aren't talking about a small amount of people who say this. It's like 90% of people who have played it rate the writing so highly. 

I was challenging the point in this thread that the writing is mediocre. 

That's fine if people really think that. But when these same people try and say the writing in Fallout 3 and 4 is better or even on a par, then I'm sorry that just Bethesda fans trolling. 

The writing in Fallout 3 and 4 was never considered that gear. Even by reviewers. 

In fact, the only good point of Dragon Age Inquisition was the writing, TOW has not only good writing, but it also makes itself approachable to persons like me who despite first person shooters, Fallout 4 did not. Fallout 4 combat is one of the worst i had seen in a RPG that i have played (i don't care about borderlands or cyberpunk, i am not touching those even with a 10 foot pole), and fallout 3 was a game i just played once and never again, due it's story setting and the lack of stupid options i could not play any Carlos Clan there, my lone wanderer was a rando and the ending was like Life is Strange: two gates.

[imitenotbecrazy]

1 minute ago, Selnor1983 said:

Again I'm going to have to disagree. Alot of players and reviewers say it is better than New Vegas. In fact quite alot say it's the best written game Obsidian have ever made. 

My other theory is there is some PS fans that will downplay this IP because the next game with a AAA budget under MS is going to be exclusive to Xbox Ecosystems. 

Personally TOW is a AA game. With a small budget like Hellblade was. 

With a AAA budget for their next games, Obsidian has the world at its feet. 

Well, Obsidian should thank god they've got such a devoted and loyal fan to speak for them. Their game certainly is not doing it for some. 

[Daidre]

8 minutes ago, Selnor1983 said:

Because the next game with a AAA budget under MS is going to be exclusive to Xbox Ecosystems.

I hate to disappoint you but there is no such thing as Exclusive Xbox Ecosystem.

All Microsoft's efforts of creating XBOX Game Pass for PC and selling it for 1$ is about creating one shared type of application that runs on Windows 10 and XBOX. It is the SAME Ecosystem.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Daidre

[Selnor1983]

18 minutes ago, Daidre said:

I hate to disappoint you but there is no such thing as Exclusive Xbox Ecosystem.

All Microsoft's efforts of creating XBOX Game Pass for PC and selling it for 1$ is about creating one shared type of application that runs on Windows 10 and XBOX. It is the SAME Ecosystem.

My point was no PS4 or Nintendo systems. It will be Xcloud, PC or Xbox Console. 

[Selnor1983]

23 minutes ago, imitenotbecrazy said:

Well, Obsidian should thank god they've got such a devoted and loyal fan to speak for them. Their game certainly is not doing it for some. 

Like every single game ever made. It might not be doing it for a very small minority. But clearly there is a majority of people it is doing alot for. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Selnor1983

[Daidre]

5 minutes ago, Selnor1983 said:

My point was no PS4 or Nintendo systems. It will be Xcloud, PC or Xbox Console. 

Releasing something on PC with its historical piracy problem and not releasing on PS4 is completely counterproductive revenue-wise. 80% of TOW console sales on PS 4.

MS lost exclusivity war in previous gen and now all bets are on multi-platform coverage.

[DekarServerbot]

6 minutes ago, Selnor1983 said:

Like every single game ever made. It might not be doing it for a very small minority. But clearly there is a majority of people it is doing alot for. 

well there are exceptions. any game here has little to no redeeming qualities. check who is the biggest offender. It's flaw list triples the "game" they ended ripping off

[yarg-gray]

1 hour ago, Selnor1983 said:

Here is a great article for all those Bethesda fanboys who can't help themselves to trolling. 

Bethesda have literally killed themselves over this generation. 

 

https://www.windowscentral.com/fallout-first-fallout-has-lived-long-enough-become-villain

 

Great article and so damn true. 

I really don't know what they're going to do to overcome this dumpster fire x100. I've been scratching my head for a few years now wondering how can Bethesda publish some gorgeous games (Doom, Wolf/Colossus, Dishonored, etc.) and still push out garbage. I thought for sure 76 would of been a huge graphic improvement but it's seriously copied-and-pasted from FO4 and FO4 is PS3 looking. I own the games mentioned above and they don't crash my PS4 every hour (without mods) at all. The worst part of Bethesda Game Studios is Bethesda Game Studios. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by yarg-gray
added text

[imitenotbecrazy]

20 minutes ago, Daidre said:

Releasing something on PC with its historical piracy problem and not releasing on PS4 is completely counterproductive revenue-wise. 80% of TOW console sales on PS 4.

MS lost exclusivity war in previous gen and now all bets are on multi-platform coverage.

A correction here at least. 82% of PHYSICAL sales for TOW were on PS4. I'm sure Gamepass affected xbox/pc sales but that 82% was not including digital, and I can't tell you the last time I purchased a physical game. 

 

Being a Microsoft Studio, it's a guarantee future Obsidian games will be Microsoft exclusives. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by imitenotbecrazy

[Selnor1983]

23 minutes ago, Daidre said:

Releasing something on PC with its historical piracy problem and not releasing on PS4 is completely counterproductive revenue-wise. 80% of TOW console sales on PS 4.

MS lost exclusivity war in previous gen and now all bets are on multi-platform coverage.

Of course its Gamepass. MS have lost nothing. To write them off next Gen with 15 First party studios now is not wise. 

Gears 5 was played more in its first week than any PS exclusive. Thanks to Gamepass access on PC and Xbox. Forza Horizon 4 has been played by 13 million players. As a comparison GT Sport is 7 million. And that came out before FH4. 

 

With Gamepass providing all MS 15 first party studio games free. And the fsct MS have upped their studio portfolio for next Gen 15 means next Gen is anyone's game. Add to that Xcloud launch (which already has some glowing hands on from the beta being pretty lag free) and Sony hasn't won anything. 

Don't be surprised if Gamepass subscribers absolutely takes off with MS first party games all releasing day and date on the service. It's already over 10 million subscribers at last count. I haven't bought a MS first party game in 16 months. Because I have Gamepass at £10.99/month which includes Live Gold in that Price. And PC Gamepass included as well. So I enjoy Football Manager 19 on there as well as Age Of Empires among others. All free. 

 

Remember Sony was on a much much better position with PS2. And look at what happened with PS3. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Selnor1983

[Selnor1983]

19 minutes ago, DekarServerbot said:

well there are exceptions. any game here has little to no redeeming qualities. check who is the biggest offender. It's flaw list triples the "game" they ended ripping off

I have no idea why you posted all that. Every game in existence has someone that doesn't like it. Even the almighty Zelda Ocarina of Time. 

That was my point. But in TOW case the minority is those who don't like it. Not the other way around. 

[Mikeymoonshine]

1 hour ago, DekarServerbot said:

In fact, the only good point of Dragon Age Inquisition was the writing,

I dunno about that to be honest. I think the main cast were really well written, they obviously put a lot into companions and there are some really strong arcs there. The overall plot and main quest line tho was......messy. Plus you had to buy a dlc to get a proper ending with closure and a proper explaination as to what was going on. 

[DekarServerbot]

47 minutes ago, Selnor1983 said:

I have no idea why you posted all that. Every game in existence has someone that doesn't like it. Even the almighty Zelda Ocarina of Time. 

That was my point. But in TOW case the minority is those who don't like it. Not the other way around. 

True that, sorry for showing the other side of the coin

2 minutes ago, Mikeymoonshine said:

I dunno about that to be honest. I think the main cast were really well written, they obviously put a lot into companions and there are some really strong arcs there. The overall plot and main quest line tho was......messy. Plus you had to buy a dlc to get a proper ending with closure and a proper explaination as to what was going on. 

 

Well, i remember that my ending was Anders (THAT Anders as PC) marrying that sexy ebony strategist or implying it. I am dubious on buying DLC, replaying it and do videos or just sit my fat ass with the outer worlds and see how many outcomes i can get.

Edited October 30, 2019 by DekarServerbot

[Wormerine]

Ha! In Trump's voice:

5 hours ago, Selnor1983 said:

Alot of players and reviewers say it is better than New Vegas. In fact quite alot say it's the best written game Obsidian have ever made. 

But taking piss aside: What does it matter? It's not a competiton. ToW is a good game, worth playing. Does it matter how it stacks up compared to other games? 

[DekarServerbot]

On 10/30/2019 at 7:25 PM, Wormerine said:

Ha! In Trump's voice:

But taking piss aside: What does it matter? It's not a competiton. ToW is a good game, worth playing. Does it matter how it stacks up compared to other games? 

Well, comparing ToW with New Vegas is like comparing Dragon Age Awakening with Dragon Age Inquisition (and comparing New Vegas against fallout one, would be like comparing Dragon Age Inquisition against Dragon Age Origins). There were a few pet peeves IMO:

first, as i had always complain about, the forced first person cammera.

second, if it was a forced first person game, i think that a character creator is just useless, why not just doing pronouns like in shovel knight and put that time, gigabytes and resources on expanding the universe or some other companion's quests, I mean, Felix and Ellie ones were pretty lackluster compared against Parvati and Nyoka.

Third, won't somebody please think of the children? there were mythical creatures here, I thought i was playing lillith's throne instead of an obsidian game

[Wormerine]

8 hours ago, DekarServerbot said:

Second, if it was a forced first person game, i think that a character creator is just useless, why not just doing pronouns like in shovel knight and put that time, gigabytes and resources on expanding the universe or some other companion's quests, I mean, Felix and Ellie ones were pretty lackluster compared against Parvati and Nyoka.

I wouldn't call it "forced FPS". That would imply a conscious effort to forbid players to playing a certain way, rather then implementing only one Point of View system. 

It probably could get away without character creation but I wouldn't call it wasted. You still see your character on regular basis, and personal it did I form and help in defining my character. What's more, of they keep this engine for the sequel, they can focus on implementing Third Person View without building character creation from the ground up as well!

I agree that some aspects of the game could be more robust. Not all companions are equal and I found Bizantium to be very empty and artificial. But that's not something people who made character creation could do.

[VaultBoi2077]

On 10/28/2019 at 4:43 AM, Daidre said:

I played TOW for a couple of hours and just could not force myself to proceed. I never touched Fallout 3-4, but TOW has the worst writing I have seen in Obsidian game ever. Not technically bad, but utterly mediocre and hopelessly tryhard in its attempts to be snarky and funny in every sentence (and always fails). 

It is so meh so soon after brilliant Disco Elysium.

I never thought I'd see the day when Spiders (Greedfall) would make more enjoyable game than Obsidian.

....So apart from the "couple of hours" you invested in TOW, you've NEVER played another Obsidian game. And yet appear to be the resident expert with subjective game critic adjectives like "utterly mediocre" and "hopelessly tryhard" ??   

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by VaultBoi2077

[jonathansanity]

Nice try Todd Howard

[VaultBoi2077]

On 10/29/2019 at 3:42 AM, Daidre said:

Much closer comparison would be Cyberpunk 2077 and I do not think there is any possible universe where it would work in TOW's favor.

 

And no, I am not a CD Project fan and yet to play Witcher 2&3.

Alright I'll bite. If you're really being genuine here and truly not trolling, then please do yourself a favor.  Try playing at least ONE of the legacy 3rd gen games you've written off as "mediocre" aka Witcher, FO3, and especially Fallout New Vegas (developed by Obsidian).  But NOT Fallout 4 which is 4th gen and completely different single player FPS design btw.

Best yet, play FO3 and compare it to Fallout NV game play.  And really, really try to play AND comple Fallout New Vegas on survival mode (hopefully this will be the PC version so you can add all the critical PC mod community bug fixes Bethesda wouldn't let Obsidian do when they forced them to release NV prematurely). Play the VANILLA version of New Vegas with ALL vanilla NV DLC. Commit yourself to an RP role. And it doesn't matter if you find yourself wanting to evolve/change your original RP PC. Just commit to the complex RP adventure you'll get from playing a NON LINEAR adventure. BEFORE trying to add any emergent game play mod content from the Nexusmods site. 

Now if you can discipline yourself to play a 3rd gen game, with 3rd gen graphics (with or without having to install graphic overhauls like NMCs re-textures, Project Nevada, Vurt's Flora Overhaul, Nevada Skies Weather mod, or epic scope PC mod community DLC that add scores more hours in new world space game play the likes of New California) then please return after the 70+ or so hours from your vanilla play through. And honestly share your first play through experiences here. 

That is the point where I'll seriously take any negative feedback on your part against the original Fallout franchise devs. Because without even having played a shallow Bethesda title, you have ZERO point of comparison for this or any game developed by Obsidian. Period.  And regardless of whether you played a Fallout title or not, you would have noticed Obsidian belongs to an elite, shrinking minority of devs with high integrity in the industry to date. The other two devs that immediately come to mind are White Horse Studios (Mafia 2 and Kingdom Come Deliverance), and CDPR (Witcher and CP2077). NONE of these devs agree with adding cancerous micro transactions or loot boxes into the single player game. And ALL of these devs wanted to have a PUBLIC NON EXCLUSIVE release of their game. And NOT put their fan bases through the tomf*ckery BS that is Epic Games Store. 

Finally, recognize that Obsidian is one of few dev studios left in the game industry to date who understand how to truly design a real RPG game. And how to implement CONSISTENT world building, franchise lore, creative story writing, PC and NPC development into every aspect of their games i.e. MQ, side quests, whatever sand box/free roam activities a player can do in the game world.  

Edited November 8, 2019 by VaultBoi2077

[Daidre]

22 hours ago, VaultBoi2077 said:

Finally, recognize that Obsidian is one of few dev studios left in the game industry to date who understand how to truly design a real RPG game. And how to implement CONSISTENT world building, franchise lore, creative story writing.

I think that is where are views differs.  Obsidian is not that kind of the studio anymore. I was resisting this knowledge after Deadfire but now I understand how that was nothing but a wishful thinking.  They'd be glad to become "new not-****ed up Bethesda"

For me TOW  is what they made with years of development and complete creative freedom. It is obvious writers that made my favorite games moved on. And what I loved were NWN 2 MotB, KOTOR 2, Alpha Protocol and first PoE.

 

But where these games shined TOW is lacking: world and dialogues are so naive, repetitive and trope-y in all the wrong places that make it look like an epitome of "mass market RPG". 

Plot is horrendous, from the very beginning and 20 hours in I am still on the same mission to get chemicals to revive colonists,  and every time I open terminal I know that I'd be fed yet one another story about how inhumane and incompetent some corporation is. Read about their crimes, enjoy a "dark" humor and glow in your moral superiority! Rejoice!

 

I barely have a willpower to start the game after arriving at Monarch and tempted more than ever (and I've played my share of lackluster RPGs) just rush the main quest and be done with it.

And I am not inflicting FO 3&4 on myself after this.  But I own newer Witchers and KC: Deliverance and intend to play some of them really soon (long games and free time could be an issue). I am sure that I'd find:

Quote

CONSISTENT world building, franchise lore, creative story writing, PC and NPC development into every aspect of their games i.e. MQ, side quests, whatever sand box/free roam activities a player can do in the game world.  

There.  An with level of quality and nuance Obsidian's oh-my-gosh-so-Creative team could never dream about. 

 

PS: TOWs looting and shooting also sucks. 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Daidre

[daven]

TOW's combat is better than Fallout 3/NV/4 IMO. Not that it's saying much as the combat in those games were pretty awful.

[Daidre]

9 minutes ago, daven said:

TOW's combat is better than Fallout 3/NV/4 IMO.

TOW's combat is not bad per se, its main problem that there are no new enemy or weapon types beside couple of science weapons after 1/3 into game. On Monarch I am shooting dozens of the same copy-pasted enemies (with a better stats) with a same copy-pasted Plasma Rifle I had from Emerald Vale (with a better stats) and opening the same copy-pasted containers with random-generated loot (with a better stats!) en-masse.  

 

It is maddening.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Daidre

[algroth]

There used to be a time when I was a bit more confused about this perceived drop in writing quality some circles complained about, but it's increasingly obvious that most of the people that do are often either the Avellone stans that want to stick it up to the "Man" they perceive in Obsidian following his remarks around the time of Deadfire's release, or the anti-SJW crowd that froth in the mouth at the inclusion of LGBT characters and POC and so on. Mostly they hang out in the Codex and /v/, which says enough on its own. Truly, the writing and worldbuilding in The Outer Worlds and Deadfire is no weaker than that of previous Obsidian games and if anything a damn sight better than the likes of Wendersnaven Nights 2, with every conversation being filled with character and detail and offering plenty of interesting options and branches that likewise give your own "silent character" more personality than a mere choice of morality/belief, and always having strong and interesting themes and ideas guiding the story and lore.

Edited November 9, 2019 by algroth

[thearmourofGod]

1 hour ago, Daidre said:

TOW's combat is not bad per se, its main problem that there are no new enemy or weapon types beside couple of science weapons after 1/3 into game. On Monarch I am shooting dozens of the same copy-pasted enemies (with a better stats) with a same copy-pasted Plasma Rifle I had from Emerald Vale (with a better stats) and opening the same copy-pasted containers with random-generated loot (with a better stats!) en-masse.  

 

It is maddening.

thankfully, i dont play rpgs for the combat, weapons and enemy types

tho, TOW does the job just fine

ironically, on consoles, almost every game has the same, if not, worse combat and differing weapon and enemy types

could they be better? lol, of course

but, ill take the new world, new enemies, new weapons, great dialogue, choice and consequence, blocked content and other actual rpg mechanics over that of other so-called rpgs every time (pc games excluded obviously, lol)

 

[Daidre]

21 minutes ago, algroth said:

Truly, the writing and worldbuilding in The Outer Worlds and Deadfire is no weaker than that of previous Obsidian games

Maybe it is cultural thing? 

Obsidian's writing became laser-focused on its target, biggest financially and geographically, audience and works nicely for them.

But people rised with different gameplay preferences, social values and literary tastes noticed the shift and do not like it anymore, so we are much more attracted to European (often eastern) and CIS games.

I kinda already accepted that Obsidian no longer for me and I should move on. TOW is a true console RPG and it is not where my preferences lie.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Daidre