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Outer Worlds, a mediocre Fallout

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20 minutes ago, Daidre said:

Maybe it is cultural thing? 

Obsidian's writing became laser-focused on its target, biggest financially and geographically, audience and works nicely for them.

But people rised with different gameplay preferences, social values and literary tastes noticed the shift and do not like it anymore, so we are much more attracted to European (often eastern) and CIS games.

I kinda already accepted that Obsidian no longer for me and I should move on. TOW is a true console RPG and it is not where my preferences lie.

no, its you

go play pillars of eternity then

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12 minutes ago, thearmourofGod said:

go play pillars of eternity then

It would only remind me about where franchise ended up and how doomed chances are to see the end of the story and make me more sad.

Edited by Daidre

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14 minutes ago, thearmourofGod said:

so, in essence, you are simply bemoaning consoles and returning to that tired argument

In essence, I noticed alarm that someone quoting my week-old post and decided to answer. 

Edited by Daidre

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3 hours ago, algroth said:

There used to be a time when I was a bit more confused about this perceived drop in writing quality some circles complained about, but it's increasingly obvious that most of the people that do are often either the Avellone stans that want to stick it up to the "Man" they perceive in Obsidian following his remarks around the time of Deadfire's release, or the anti-SJW crowd that froth in the mouth at the inclusion of LGBT characters and POC and so on. Mostly they hang out in the Codex and /v/, which says enough on its own. Truly, the writing and worldbuilding in The Outer Worlds and Deadfire is no weaker than that of previous Obsidian games and if anything a damn sight better than the likes of Wendersnaven Nights 2, with every conversation being filled with character and detail and offering plenty of interesting options and branches that likewise give your own "silent character" more personality than a mere choice of morality/belief, and always having strong and interesting themes and ideas guiding the story and lore.

Did people complain about Dorian in DA:I? He is my favourite character, i don't think him being gay is shoved in your face at all.

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21 minutes ago, daven said:

Did people complain about Dorian in DA:I? He is my favourite character, i don't think him being gay is shoved in your face at all.

Some people complained about it being announced as a news story but that wasn't really bioware's fault that was the games media. The writers posted like character profiles for every companion and Gaider mentioned that Dorian was gay in that (because as a gay man dorian was kind of the character he always wanted to write) and the media made it a news story.  Then a bunch of people acted like Bioware had done some kind of press release about the gay character or something. 

I've also heard people say that Dorian is too steroitypical but most of the people who say that are straight people, not gay people complaining about being steroityped. There are criticisms of his personal quest that I do actually agree with though. 

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On the topic of writing I kind of agree with the criticisms of the writing in POE and Deadfire. I love both those games but I think both games suffer from the way they are written. The problem is people often go to far with criticising these games and start making silly and unreasonable criticisms and then you notice that everything they are saying plays into some agenda they have. So I don't disagree that a lot of the hate is because of that but I don't think all the criticisms are unwarranted. 

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Count me among the people who feel that TOW is not particularly well written either. The world is nice, the ideas are there, there is so much potential in the setting but I think the writing actually holds the game back from ... I don't know, making something interesting from it all.

Some of my problems with the writing:

-For a game that is so much about humor, it's really rare that it actually is genuinely funny. It's silly, yes. Very silly in parts, but it's rare that it hits home. There are some funny bits, like Hawthorne smashed under the pod, but they are really rare in my opinion. Most of the time it is just sort of tepid silliness.

-And for a game that is so much about *dark* humor, it's really rare that it actually hits me in the feels somehow. Perhaps it is because it is such a *thing* now with Fallout's brand of humor and all of that but again... it never manages to move me in any way.

-I'm not one to need a huge plot twist or anything in my stories, I think they're often overused in fact, but there's just not much going on in the story either. There's never a "whoa" moment or a "damn, that put a new twist on this character" or "well I didn't expect that!". It feels very much like a straight shooter from the start. You never uncover anything truly interesting. It feels like you "get" what it's all about as soon as you see the sort of conflict in Emerald Vale.

-For the first time in an Obsidian game, I actually don't want to bring companions along. Parvati is an exception as I just find her extremely likeable, sort of in the same vein as Edér in a way but obviously different. But that human quality. But her quest, and the rest of the companions? They just feel  really shallow to me. With companions like Max and Felix being downright annoying (and not in an interesting way to act like a foil or bring conflict to the party). Ellie is a trained surgeon, who is also pirate, who also acts like a spoiled little girl, who also acts tough. Nyoka is a funny alcoholic who is only an alcoholic sometimes because it's kinda cool and funny and tough. They never come together as interesting, compelling characters to me.

Not to say that the writing in the game is all-together terrible, there are bits and pieces I like. But yeah, for the first time in an Obsidian game I was kind of feeling that feeling of "can this conversation end soon please?". And I have always been a dialogue person, to exhaust all the options and make dialogue focused characters and all of that. But I don't know, perhaps I just don't "get it" any more.

It's my biggest problem with the game along with 1) the horrible encounter design and 2 ) the horrible loot system.

Edited by Starwars
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On 11/8/2019 at 6:45 AM, Wormerine said:

I wouldn't call it "forced FPS". That would imply a conscious effort to forbid players to playing a certain way, rather then implementing only one Point of View system. 

It probably could get away without character creation but I wouldn't call it wasted. You still see your character on regular basis, and personal it did I form and help in defining my character. What's more, of they keep this engine for the sequel, they can focus on implementing Third Person View without building character creation from the ground up as well!

I agree that some aspects of the game could be more robust. Not all companions are equal and I found Bizantium to be very empty and artificial. But that's not something people who made character creation could do.

well, as i said, that personal could be dismissed and more resources could be spared on the strong points of the game so it would not look like "New Vegas Awakening". I mean, it was pretty ambitious to choose a cattlepunk setting (specially since cattlepunk is a genre that requires a lot of researching in how was life in Mexico during late XIX century, and obsidian did a great job here) so I wish there was more of THAT instead of a stupid character creator that rewards you with a character you won't ever see anymore except at menus or when you went afk.

If Obsidian ditched that and just went textual justifying that is a first person game and the stupid immersion would be better if you don't had a character builder

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Just finished the game myself. I have to seriously disagree with the Starwars' statement...

On 11/9/2019 at 7:24 PM, Starwars said:

-For a game that is so much about humor, it's really rare that it actually is genuinely funny. It's silly, yes. Very silly in parts, but it's rare that it hits home. There are some funny bits, like Hawthorne smashed under the pod, but they are really rare in my opinion. Most of the time it is just sort of tepid silliness.

Granted that there's few things more subjective than what makes one laugh, but I disagree with this on two fronts: firstly, I certainly laughed a lot through the game, I thought plenty of the jokes were witty, well-delivered and helped give even some of the most throwaway quests or encounters plenty of character. Interactions with the mechanicals in general were amidst my personal favorites, with the likes of Auntie Cleo's Groundbreaker mech attempting to feign shock and offense at your remarks against it, ADA's frequent psychopathic tendencies, or SAM's constant barrage of slogans and zingers mixed with his new violent program, all being highlights.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, is that I think the pervasiveness of the humour is deeply overstated as well, for the most part - yes, the game does feature plenty of on-the-nose satire, but when it's time for the game to delve into darker or more tragic scenarios, it doesn't shrug these off with a throwaway joke, and when applying some manner of gallows humour does so pretty sparingly and never in a fashion that is jarring. Despite your later comments about Nyoka's character and portrayal as an alcoholic, I don't recall a single joke cracked through her companion quest for example. When we read into the experiments carried out by Chartrand, or the fate of the Hope's crew, there's genuine mystery and grimness respectively that is approached with the earnest tone such scenarios need/deserve. The game certainly doesn't laugh off the colony's plight, even if the portrayal of bureaucracy, capitalism and the upper class can often be broadly satirical and infused with the absurd. In many ways the tonal balance in the game isn't unlike that of Terry Gilliam or Wojciech Has' works (think Brazil for a clear reference for example), and also fits the pulpy "sci-fi serial" feel it's clearly going for and references several times throughout its length.

On 11/9/2019 at 7:24 PM, Starwars said:

-And for a game that is so much about *dark* humor, it's really rare that it actually hits me in the feels somehow. Perhaps it is because it is such a *thing* now with Fallout's brand of humor and all of that but again... it never manages to move me in any way.

Again, what hits one is really up in the air, but I will say that several sequences and situations certainly struck a chord with me. The whole story behind the Hope's crew for example was rather vivid and horrifying, and I say this as someone who personally knows a couple of people who've had to resort to cannibalism to survive a rather extreme situation. Plenty of the bureaucratic loops and situations of sheer corporate abuse in display here I've lived in the flesh and feel pretty grimly accurate despite the satirical and silly tone the game often goes for, where even the kinds of remarks uttered by the Byzantines feel verbatim what I've heard in occasions from members of the high class in Argentina. All of which, of course, makes the whole thing funnier (to tie to the previous point) and yet also rather nightmarish.

On 11/9/2019 at 7:24 PM, Starwars said:

-I'm not one to need a huge plot twist or anything in my stories, I think they're often overused in fact, but there's just not much going on in the story either. There's never a "whoa" moment or a "damn, that put a new twist on this character" or "well I didn't expect that!". It feels very much like a straight shooter from the start. You never uncover anything truly interesting. It feels like you "get" what it's all about as soon as you see the sort of conflict in Emerald Vale.

 

I'd say the whole state of the colony and the ongoing famine, the reason for it, the isolation from Earth, and plenty of other subplots like Chartrand's experiments, Cascadia's and the Hope's stories, the situation with the crashed gunship, or really the resolution of any of the acts in the story all provide interesting and striking situations, as well as twists or turns that add plenty of colour and intrigue to the story. Whilst a lot of the main quest can be summarized as "get this chemical to thaw out these dudes", there's plenty going on in the way that transforms or gives the story a cadence beyond that of a simple straight line.

Quote

-For the first time in an Obsidian game, I actually don't want to bring companions along. Parvati is an exception as I just find her extremely likeable, sort of in the same vein as Edér in a way but obviously different. But that human quality. But her quest, and the rest of the companions? They just feel  really shallow to me. With companions like Max and Felix being downright annoying (and not in an interesting way to act like a foil or bring conflict to the party). Ellie is a trained surgeon, who is also pirate, who also acts like a spoiled little girl, who also acts tough. Nyoka is a funny alcoholic who is only an alcoholic sometimes because it's kinda cool and funny and tough. They never come together as interesting, compelling characters to me.

Here my initial question would be: how much time did you spend with your companions? Did you bring them along despite not wanting to? Anyways, going down through each:

  • Parvati is indeed extremely likeable, and I would probably agree with you that her quest doesn't do much to transform her character or press further upon the aspects that define her. That said, I would also hesitate to say it's pointless, or claim it wasn't enjoyable on my end. I do think it reflects a fair bit on the kind of character that she is and where her vision is often centered in opposite to that of the other characters - her motives to join you do seem more a wide-eyed desire to get to explore the world and find a place in it, and in a way the fact that she does with Junlei seems entirely in line with what her expectations of life in the colony for her would be. She isn't a revolutionary, she isn't a privateer, she isn't haunted by past events and decisions that she feels in need to right. Maybe the game could try to challenge her naivete a little more the further we delve into the story and into the state of the colony as well as the Board's plans, but in many ways this is also what sets her aside from Felix who is likewise naive and infatuated with an adventurous/heroic notion of a 'revolution' but only grows more aware of the meaning of one the more he travels the system and so on. Generally I agree that she seems like the most static companion, not counting SAM who is his own separate thing of course (and maybe Ellie too).
  • Not sure annoying is a word I'd describe Vicar Max with though there's certainly a abrasive quality to his person that is described early on by the members of Edgewater and is also visible frequently in the way he interjects and takes command of conversations he's in, often siding with the more "system-driven" options like MSI, OSI and the Board and so on, at least until his companion quest is finished. Honestly I found him to be quite enjoyable as a companion, I appreciated his discussions on faith throughout the game which I also believe added this very strong thematic thread of the propagation of ideas and philosophies as nourishment for a society and progress, that much in the way Slavoj Zizek describes the infertility in Children of Men being an ideological and spiritual one and not just as physical one, so is the starvation in the colony one of ideology and not just one of food. My one criticism about his arc is that I do feel the resolution to his quest is the one part where the writing did completely falter for me, coming across as a bunch of empty, cliché platitudes delivered so earnestly and mechanically that they just felt like they outright belonged in r/im14andthisisdeep. This aside, however, I do think Max's arc is a strong one, I think his transformation is rather interesting if a tad abrupt, and, again, one which does explore an interesting facet of the game's central themes as well.
  • Moving back to Felix, I guess I can understand how he could come across as annoying being that he's portrayed as a naive idealistic guy with a desire for adventure largely built on the serials he's consumed in his life and so on; but I do think he's also probably the strongest-written companion as well. His companion quest seems almost moot to his arc, which really develops across and in reaction to the main story instead. I do wonder how much of his transformation is tied to our choices and so on, but speaking from my playthrough of the game, what I saw with Felix was someone who approached the spacer life with starry-eyed idealism and saw his beliefs and worldview tempered as the icons of his youth, with people like Graham or Harlow, proved to not be the people he once imagined. He first comes on board as a bit of a fish out of water playing to be a space pirate, but by the end of the game has pretty clear and passionate convictions grounded on what he's seen and experienced and not merely on some romantic idea of revolution. Like Max he's also one who takes strong and determined stances on conversations and actions that bother him and who's quick to voice his support for that which he agrees with - and in doing so I wouldn't be surprised that in a more Board-allied playthrough he'd be a strong antagonistic force in the party (though I haven't played through that path yet so I can't claim this with any certainty).
  • Ellie's pretty handily the weakest of the lot for me, and the only one which I feel nonplussed about at the end of the game. I find it curious that she was made the "face" of the game in the marketing campaign when she also feels like the companion that is the least involved in the central story, aside from SAM who I once again place in a somewhat different category to the rest. Her "rich kid with daddy issues on a rebellious/nihilist streak" theme provides a fun enough episode about the high class' two-facedness but doesn't really add anything to the story that isn't already apparent all throughout Byzantium, and in terms of interactions with other companions and NPCs seems to often act as the catalyst for situations that say more about everyone around her than herself. The Fry/Leela dynamics between Felix and herself for example are amusing and endearing more because of Felix's input than her own, and it does feel like her only mode is to act pragmatic and jaded before everything and everyone. Even if at the end of her quest you can manage to coax out an admission of sympathy or care from her, she's quick to dismiss the scene as "mushy" and it's not as if we can't see a similar concern or attachment in denial right from the start with her.
  • I'll straight-up disagree with your description of Nyoka as a "funny alcoholic", even if some jokes are played at the expense of her alcoholism (I only particularly recall two instances: her introduction at the Yacht Club and during her interactions with SAM in the ship). Generally speaking however, I don't think her arc is made light of, nor is the alcoholism trope particularly overplayed. Her story and arc may be fairly cliché inasmuch as it plays on the death of loved ones and a feeling of guilt or non-closure leading her to drink and how we eventually help her find some closure, but as far as that arc goes, I think it's pretty decently executed and makes her a pretty empathetic character. With regards about how effective her story proves to be, I also think it's in no small part that unlike Ellie, Nyoka exceeds whatever archetype one may want to file her under and doesn't lean into the more "jaded/self-concerned" side of that archetype either. She has a genuine interest in the future of Monarch and earnestly engages in political discussions with the protagonist and other characters whilst defending her own set of beliefs on these matters, which themselves are pretty interesting and idiosyncratic. She's arguably the strongest voice in the game in favour of a middle road between the unfettered capitalism of the Board and the radical, anarchist stances of the deserters and Iconoclasts. And on top of it all her hunting stories, much like Ash's for that matter, are quite evocative too.
  • Lastly there's SAM who is in something of a different category to all other companions, partly because he isn't fully sentient to begin with. He doesn't really have an arc, or is particularly in need of one either - he's certainly there for comic relief, mostly riffing on the notion of a sanitation robot being reprogrammed as a killing machine and how cleaning zingers, pre-programmed responses and so on could be absurdly twisted or weaved into violent acts or used as automated responses for all manner of questions. He's akin to this setting's Nordom, in a way (I will say that Nordom is a stronger character because he did have an actual arc across Torment, but again, he was in a position to have one unlike SAM). Again, as I've mentioned with my opening paragraph, what makes each person laugh is up in the air, but personally I found SAM to be hilarious and endearing, providing plenty of witty, absurd banter, and being performed to perfection by the voice actor.

Save Ellie and maybe Parvati I can't say I agree with your stance on them, and even ignoring the companions themselves I feel the game offers a variety of memorable NPCs elsewhere as well. Be it Phineas Welles, Martin Callahan, Zora Blackwood, Sanjar Nandi, Graham Bryant, Sophia Akande, Gladys, and more, there's plenty of characters throughout that feel colourful, insightful, funny, or simply possess their own quirks and idiosyncrasies that make them stick out in my mind. I really don't feel there's a drab moment in the game as a result.

I will also say that I've heard others express disappointment in the writing following their playthrough of Disco Elysium, which I'll be tackling shortly... Yet I think this comparison isn't really fair, myself. As I've mentioned earlier, the intention behind the game's tone and feel are certainly inspired by and aiming for a particular pulp sci-fi serial feel, whereas everything I've seen of Disco Elysium strikes me almost Pynchonesque in its rambling, post-modern pop-culture collage approach. I suspect it'll be the better game of the two and the one which will stick more with me as a favorite since that's the kind of literature and feel I tend to enjoy more, but again, taken for what it's going for I think The Outer Worlds has done a superb job as well.

Edited by algroth
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That is a lot of text... will read it next week.

I'm curious what people consider 'good writing' in games. I think BG1/2 have really good writing, it suits the game and Forgotten Realms. It's funny and interesting, it's not a shining example of fine writing but it works for the game. Does every game need to strive to be War and Peace or whatever? As long as the writing works for the game, isn't that good enough? I think 'The Beach' is a fine piece of literature, my favourite book i re-read every year or so... because it serves the story and characters well not because it's something that needs to be studied in literature at university. I still Like 1984 and Brave New World but I won't re read them anytime soon.

The Sopranos has fantastic writing, it's funny and keeps you engaged. But it's mainly swearing and talking about food!


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On 10/30/2019 at 2:14 PM, Mike504thpir said:

New here also, and I have to say I could not wait to get TOW.  I even pre-ordered it, which was a first for me.  I planned my weekend out to be nothing but TOW, and started playing release night.  After starting the game, I thought the graphics are outstanding, even on my mediocre PC.  No lags, no crashes, and no FPS drops really make me happy.  I like the story line, I like that it is a silent protagonist, and I like the abundance of areas to explore.  The perk system seems ok, as does the companion system.   That being said, by Sunday evening I was playing my "Dead is Dead" FO4 character a couple of different reasons.  The first is the dialogue sessions with NPC's is excruciating to me.  I can read the dialogue, comprehend it, and craft my response long before the NPC finishes speaking.  I can't shut them up by pressing a button just shutting the voicing off.   Next it seems that everything hinges on a fetch quest, which isn't a game breaker for me, but that really gets tedious, fast.  The crafting is dull to me on the normal setting, as is there seems to be an over abundance of parts to repair with. 

Honestly, I think I got bored with slow pace of the game, and needed a little gaming excitement. I am not going to give up playing TOW, and after I finish the MQ the first time, make my next character a jackwagon and play on Supernova settings.  That may be a little more interesting, hahaha.

Yep. Some suggestions:

After finishing the MQ for first time, give it a little rest. Go play FO4 (vanilla or heavily modded) for a while. Then return and play TOW on supernova.  Play a dumb character (if you didn't do this previously. Or the opposite PC of what role you played the first time).  Try to challenge yourself by taking all the character flaws as they come up in your game progression. Make sure you're eating, drinking and sleeping frequently to keep your combat skills sharp. And this time, reading all the food descriptions will be critical. Because accidentally drinking alcohol instead of water will have consequences on character health (which will eventually lead to PC death). So  this time around, food buffs are critical to your PC health and combat readiness on this survival level of difficulty.  Also whenever your companions die in combat, mourn them for whatever RP reasons (or not) and move on. 

You could also set personal sand box goals like completing the MQ while keeping a positive rep with ALL major factions (positive meter at 95% or greater). While not offending the minor corporate and independent factions in process.   Become the most selfish, double dealing and self serving freelancer in Halcyon. Work for all factions to profit the most money.  A space faring Hans Solo privateer without a conscience. Who wouldn't hesitate to blow Pavarati's face off if her virtue signaling got in the way of your PC making a profit.  etc  etc

And for a real challenge, you could always add the restriction of DID (if you're into playing a more Dark Souls type of playthrough).

Edited by VaultBoi2077

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3 hours ago, daven said:

That is a lot of text... will read it next week.

I'm curious what people consider 'good writing' in games. I think BG1/2 have really good writing, it suits the game and Forgotten Realms. It's funny and interesting, it's not a shining example of fine writing but it works for the game. Does every game need to strive to be War and Peace or whatever? As long as the writing works for the game, isn't that good enough? I think 'The Beach' is a fine piece of literature, my favourite book i re-read every year or so... because it serves the story and characters well not because it's something that needs to be studied in literature at university. I still Like 1984 and Brave New World but I won't re read them anytime soon.

The Sopranos has fantastic writing, it's funny and keeps you engaged. But it's mainly swearing and talking about food!

Pretty much as you say, the Baldur's Gate games work really well for what Forgotten Realms ought to be. It's a fun, pulpy adventure, with plenty of character and personality throughout. It also has one advantage over many other RPG series in that every part of the "trilogy" (so far as we assume Throne of Bhaal to be a third part of the story) also feels like its own part in a greater, seamless overarching narrative as opposed to a series of addendums made to a stand-alone story simply because the first game in the series sold well. The game isn't especially deep but there's a decent thematic core at the centre that lends the story enough purpose and focus throughout to make the trilogy feel like a unit, which is more than can be said for a lot of videogame sagas out there. But Baldur's Gate II also especially shines with its quest design, really: off the top of my head there isn't a single quest throughout the game that feels like a mere fetch-quest or bounty or the likes, whilst some of the longer quests feel themselves like really compelling adventures that could have easily acted as the main plot to countless other games. I don't think there's any game since that's quite succeeded at making every quest within it act as an interesting short story of its own and not merely a task to get some gold, items or experience from. Even Deadfire, which I think is a superior game in many respects, has plenty of quests which also reduce themselves to being mere bounties or two-step tasks. Whilst sure, the choice and consequence can be a bit lacking, the morality behind the options available can often be very clear-cut (I don't recall a single complicated choice I had to make as a "good character" in the entire Baldur's Gate saga, or any situation where I felt I had to deliberate between several morally-grey options), several of the quests can be pretty inflexible and unrewarding for evil or neutral playthroughs, and plenty of the dialogue can come across as "flat" or merely functional, the game is just brimming with immensely enjoyable stories, and that is absolutely a triumph of the narrative team.

As you say, it doesn't need to be War and Peace. Same for The Outer Worlds really, which I'd argue is the better-written game as well, even when it falls short in that aspect I mentioned Baldur's Gate II excells at. What I would add as a small caveat here, and why Disco Elysium seems like such an exciting game for me at least, is that it's extremely rare that a game will *want* to be its own Gravity's Rainbow, or its own War and Peace or Moby ****. I feel that level of ambition is often lacking in the medium and I would like to see more of it. Obsidian has pressed beyond mere escapism several times before (it's why I rate them so highly, really) and I do think The Outer Worlds presents one of its pulpiest products thus far, even if it also takes itself seriously enough to overcome being just that; but I guess where I would agree with others is that I would love to see them take this setting to stranger places and delve deeper into more provocative themes and interesting ideas in the future.

Edited by algroth
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8 hours ago, algroth said:

As you say, it doesn't need to be War and Peace.

Your posts also do not need to be a War and Peace, and rumbling one at this.

 

It is really hard to take critique about game literary qualities seriously when it is written by someone who does not know what his big shiny "Enter" button on the keyboard is for and tries to communicate in what is technically pseudo-intellectual pulp. 

It awakens my Post-Numenera-TD and reminds me about horrible modern misconception in some creative circles that wordy = well-written = "deep".

 

I really hope that writing is not what you do for living or at least not in English.

Edited by Daidre

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On 10/27/2019 at 6:26 AM, Reffy said:

When this game was released, I was pleasantly surprised. It looked like a combination of Fallout and Mass Effect.
But after a few hours of playing, I started to see the mediocrity that Obsidian is known for.

My biggest complaint is that the main character is an emotionless husk. Why spend all my time at the character creation, making a human being, while I can only act as an eunuch?
No flirting, no camaraderie (besides fetch quests for your team), no romance and barely any friendship. Why surround me with characters, if I can barely interact with them anyway?

Whatever I can do in Outer Worlds, I can also do in Fallout 4 and more. And I know Fallout 4 doesn't have the best dialogue in the Fallout series. But Outer Worlds isn't better either. That and Fallout 4 has so many mods, and isn't Epic Store exclusive.

When I compare Pillars of Eternity 1 to 2, I can see so many improvements. Maybe Outer Worlds 2 would be better, but currently I see more roleplaying in GTA online, and I don't even own that game.

Outer Worlds. 4/10 

Hey, so you had every emoji reaction besides the cat.

 

So I gave you a cat emoji reaction. Enjoy.

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6 hours ago, Daidre said:

Your posts also do not need to be a War and Peace, and rumbling one at this.

 

It is really hard to take critique about game literary qualities seriously when it is written by someone who does not know what his big shiny "Enter" button on the keyboard is for and tries to communicate in what is technically pseudo-intellectual pulp. 

It awakens my Post-Numenera-TD and reminds me about horrible modern misconception in some creative circles that wordy = well-written = "deep".

 

I really hope that writing is not what you do for living or at least not in English.

It is, in part, though not in English. I break paragraphs when I need to, i.e. when I've finished developing a central idea and move on to a different one - y'know, just the way paragraphs are meant to be split up. Some will be longer, some will be shorter. I certainly don't have to break for every sentence the way you seem to be doing here, though fair enough, I could've broken my paragraphs further at precisely two instances. So I've gone ahead and done so, cheers.

Edited by algroth
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On 10/27/2019 at 8:39 AM, ndakota79 said:

That's just like ... your opinion man. But I'm sure everyone here is greatful for your critique. 

However, my opinion is that it's the best Fallout like game since Fallout New Vegas. My opinion is that the writing is brillant. My opinion is that Obsidian is not known for mediocrity but for some of my favourite games ever. 

I agree.  I got the game after seeing it in development months ago and knew that when it did release I'd have to get it.  It hasn't disappointed.  I'm sharing my time between a lot of games now and TOW's will be more after playing for 5 hours last night.  So much like Fallout but so different as well.  The story so far is fabulous and the dialogue is equally awesome.  I'm loving it as I'm sure a lot of people are.

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On 10/27/2019 at 2:08 PM, D. Fuller said:

Comparison, not competing. Each game has its strengths and weaknesses. Compared to other games, O.W. is in my opinion a more laid back, slower paced game than something like Borderlands 3, with emphasis on story.

You can't compare Borderlands with TOW, or Fallout for that matter, the games are so totally different, polar opposites in fact.  I love Borderlands, Fallout and now TOW so I can say this having played them all.  Story takes a backseat in BL's where it excels in Fallout and even more so in TOW.  I'm only 7-8 hours into TOW but so far the character interactions and speech decisions have been outstanding.  Run and gun rampant killing is the name of the game for the shooter BL's and I think we can all agree.  It just isn't the focus with RPG games at all, especially not Fallout or TOW.

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I have to say I’ve just bought Outer Worlds. 
 

So far somewhat underwhelming. Combat and stealth are kinda meh. The enemies are even tethered to the their spawn locations, so run 20-30ft away and suddenly they have a mind wipe and forget about you and run back to the spawn location. 
AI is pretty dumb and can’t seem to spot the player (standing) at 20ft away. 
 

hopefully the game will come into its own. 

I think what a lot of folks clearly like is the dialog options and choices...

but the rest of the game is so far pretty average.

 

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1 minute ago, LaMOi said:

I have to say I’ve just bought Outer Worlds. 
 

So far somewhat underwhelming. Combat and stealth are kinda meh. The enemies are even tethered to the their spawn locations, so run 20-30ft away and suddenly they have a mind wipe and forget about you and run back to the spawn location. 
AI is pretty dumb and can’t seem to spot the player (standing) at 20ft away. 
 

hopefully the game will come into its own. 

I think what a lot of folks clearly like is the dialog options and choices...

but the rest of the game is so far pretty average.

 

hub-style and nearby enemy placement means a large radius would equal oblivionesque enemy queues following the pc across the entire hub, lol

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13 hours ago, thearmourofGod said:

hub-style and nearby enemy placement means a large radius would equal oblivionesque enemy queues following the pc across the entire hub, lol

Rather that than after 20ft they go “Oops! Better run back to my spawn point!”

Breaks immersion. And just looks so stupid, and can be used as a cheese tactic. 

 

Edited by LaMOi

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I like the outer worlds, although the hype was huge and I was expecting something more. Fallout NV is my favorite FO 3D and I expected TOW to be even better. Dialogues are very poor, same when it comes to missions. Will The Oter Worlds be further developed?


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7 hours ago, LaMOi said:

Rather that than after 20ft they go “Oops! Better run back to my spawn point!”

Breaks immersion. And just looks so stupid, and can be used as a cheese tactic. 

 

lol, cmon man!

those oblivion enemy queues are one of the most ridiculous things to ever happen in the history of gaming!  funny as all heck but absolutely garbage development

lol, yes, human enemies (creatures makes sense to me) turning on a dime and returning to their spots is funny looking but the alternative in a hub setting i will assume (im no programmer lol) is unacceptable to everyone not named bethesda

Edited by thearmourofGod

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