Which did you enjoy more, Poe or Poe2?

[Wormerine]

7 hours ago, Moriendor said:

259 hours for the first game + WM1+2 seems a little excessive. I'm always a very completionist type of guy as far as finishing all of the content is concerned and it took me 118 hours to finish the first game on normal/classic difficulty in expert mode. I took my sweet time with it, too, so I think that for most people it would probably be more in the 100 - 110 hour range.

Yeah, I have no idea how one might get 260 of mostly gameplay on one playthrough. My total PoE1 count (and it's fairly reliable as I never leave the game running in the background and I always playd it with access to the internet so every single hour is accounted for) is 284hours, which consists of two full playthroughs (base game + expansions) one on veteran, other on PotD, reading everything, aside of the backer content. 

Deadfire is on 291h but it includes about 50h of beta, one full playthrough plus DLC, 75% of a playthrough without DLCs and 50% of turn based playthrough (and no DLCs). 

Deadfire might be more compact experience, which is interesting, as in my mind it is a much more expansive game. It is probably the lack of books - I spend a lot of PoE1 time reading, Not to mention 10 min+ wall-texts of companion introduction. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Wormerine

[bringingyouthefuture]

Interesting I have 442 hours on POE1 with just two playthroughs of all content including DLCs.  I booked close to the same without even finishing POE2 yet - on last DLC and final mission to Ukazio.  I definitely read almost everything though in POE1 and POE2 - and for POE2 I restarted almost everytime a major patch was released so many of those hours are in early game.  I don't know, I remember reading you could finish POE2 in a few hours with Berath's Blessings so you can definitely rip through it.  I think if you play PoTD it takes longer since an entire battle can take a full day especially if you lose at the last minute - one of the Survivor fights in the SSS DLC took me 3 hours for sure, if not longer - but I also don't play with an optimized party so I bet you could do them faster with a full party of custom characters - I mean I play Aloth as a Fighter/Mage lol I don't even get all the cool spells.

Edited May 7, 2019 by bringingyouthefuture

[Xenavire]

Between the two, I prefer Deadfire. Pillars was great, don't get me wrong, but Deadfire gave me the one thing that Pillars couldn't - a feeling of freedom. The exploration was never bad in Pillars, but there was never much to find - the furthest places off the "beaten path" you could go were relegated to side quests, and frequently very small or lacking any particular oomph. Plus the final act was so horribly cramped, I felt like backtracking for anything was more of a chore than just gritting my teeth and making that push for the ending. 

 

Deadfire cured that rushed feeling for me - a significant number of locations had some bite-sized adventures, and several locations had something quite significant, and all the while you are making some kind of progress. The bounties helped keep things interesting, and I didn't feel pressured to commit to rushing the story at any part (barring perhaps the intro, before having a working ship, but that can be forgiven.) Add the plenty of interesting side stories (Neketaka alone feels like it has almost as much content as Pillars had before DLC, assuming you know where to look), with better mechanics and deeper character customisation, and there is no contest for me. 

 

As for which had a greater impact, I have to give it to Pillars. I would have no investment in this piratey adventure without the grim, serious narrative of Pillars. It helps to have the ironic twist that I always played a faithful of Eothas, making Deadfire this amusing game of cat and mouse. 

[takamorisan]

Gameplay wise Deadfire is a much more refined experience, artwise too beautiful game indeed.

As for the story thats my beef I guess? The companions were all right and their stories were cool to follow but my main issue is the plot. Since the beginning you were there as the errand boy for the gods to plea a bargain for Eothas. Felt really powerless and didn't see much point since they could had sent an avatar to convey whatever political message that they were in the consensus in the pantheon. Or maybe I just wanted to fight a God. Something went missing for me in the main plot.

[RMRM]

To me PoE 1 is an overall better experience and a vastly superior game, plus a much better tribute to the old classics.

I recently finished a PoE 1 playthrough and jumped straight to PoE 2. This is what I immediately missed:

- linearity > in my opinion linearity is a trademark of classic cRPG's. semi-open / free worlds do not work for me in these games as they take away the core elements of immersion and intimacy that are inherently linked to the rest of systems (e.g. character development) in cRPG's.

- pacing > a bit related to the above, the pacing in PoE 1 is much better as it's organically embedded into the main quest development. This is a critical element where PoE 2 fails tremendously imo

- dungeon crawling > horrible in PoE 2. the hyper simplification of combat really kills this integral part of any cRPG. The injury mechanic and the rest system was what made PoE 1 good and what justifyed in my opinion a really weak character creation / develoment system. I do not know why Obsidian decided to go for a console-dumbed version for combat / dungeon crawling and a multiclassing system that is close to pointless given how simple the whole character development is.

- story > to me this is very subjective so I will not comment in detail. I honestly expected something different in PoE 2 and was very disappointed to see that it is just the same again but made worse as everything you do is loosely connected (being generous) to the main quest.

Basically the best PoE 3 experience possible to me would be PoE 1 with the technical aspects and artwork expertise from PoE 2.

[wingedchocolatecake]

10 hours ago, RMRM said:

To me PoE 1 is an overall better experience and a vastly superior game, plus a much better tribute to the old classics.

I recently finished a PoE 1 playthrough and jumped straight to PoE 2. This is what I immediately missed:

- linearity > in my opinion linearity is a trademark of classic cRPG's. semi-open / free worlds do not work for me in these games as they take away the core elements of immersion and intimacy that are inherently linked to the rest of systems (e.g. character development) in cRPG's.

- pacing > a bit related to the above, the pacing in PoE 1 is much better as it's organically embedded into the main quest development. This is a critical element where PoE 2 fails tremendously imo

- dungeon crawling > horrible in PoE 2. the hyper simplification of combat really kills this integral part of any cRPG. The injury mechanic and the rest system was what made PoE 1 good and what justifyed in my opinion a really weak character creation / develoment system. I do not know why Obsidian decided to go for a console-dumbed version for combat / dungeon crawling and a multiclassing system that is close to pointless given how simple the whole character development is.

- story > to me this is very subjective so I will not comment in detail. I honestly expected something different in PoE 2 and was very disappointed to see that it is just the same again but made worse as everything you do is loosely connected (being generous) to the main quest.

Basically the best PoE 3 experience possible to me would be PoE 1 with the technical aspects and artwork expertise from PoE 2.

I honestly enjoyed the combat in PoE2 more. I prefer having more spells than constantly resting due to the lack of abilities. Deadfire's combat was, in my opinion, more fluid and fun. There is one major disadvantage to PoE2's combat: You can easily fall into a rhythm of just using the same spells every encounter, but still — better than micromanaging and timidly casting spells/ abilities only a few times.

[Daidre]

I was really enjoying combat system when I started my new run of Deadfire.  I customized my party with all classes I wanted to try and getting through first 12 levels and early fights was extremely satisfying.

I completed bounty hunts, most of the small islands and cleaned unique ships from the sea.  All this in first 10 hours.

 

But i did not have even remotely challenging fight for 20 hours after, while doing quests in Neketaka and faction lines, all fights devolved to "switch AI on and left click". 

Any dungeon of note is hidden behind the wall of dozen or so NPC spewing their "brilliant writing" at me.  And when I actually got to Poko Kohara (one of the biggest dungeons in original game) it was whole 20 minute of adventuring with 14th level party. And then back to yapping NPC.

It is such borefest that I tempted to drop game before seeing new Megabosses and, as I heard, nice dungeon in last DLC.

There is decent system in Deadfire and brilliant itemization, but severe absence of challenging combat (or any combat at all) for long stretches of time and general density of like 1 tiny dungeon for 5 hours of play is where game falls flat on its face.

 

PS I am playing om PoTD, but selecting all challenges and then doing non-combat quest first to level up or some stupid things like no-pause, breaking items and body-guarding low-HP NPC are even farther from my idea of fun.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Daidre

[daven]

Maybe because you completely over-levelled everything by doing all the ship stuff so soon...?????

[gloomseeker]

I did spend too much time fighting the pathfinding in the first game and in the end I did enjoy the game despite the gameplay whereas I've enjoyed Deadfire both because of its story and its gameplay. 

The first game had a very strong story so there's that but Deadfire has a very refreshing setting and is absolutely gorgeous. The major flaw with Deadfire is that you're drawn into the game that deities are playing and are forced to act as their pawn (and either you are a willing pawn and will want to move through the plot as fast as possible or you're a reluctant one and will do your utmost to stall them). 

[bringingyouthefuture]

13 hours ago, Daidre said:

I was really enjoying combat system when I started my new run of Deadfire.  I customized my party with all classes I wanted to try and getting through first 12 levels and early fights was extremely satisfying.

I completed bounty hunts, most of the small islands and cleaned unique ships from the sea.  All this in first 10 hours.

 

But i did not have even remotely challenging fight for 20 hours after, while doing quests in Neketaka and faction lines, all fights devolved to "switch AI on and left click". 

Any dungeon of note is hidden behind the wall of dozen or so NPC spewing their "brilliant writing" at me.  And when I actually got to Poko Kohara (one of the biggest dungeons in original game) it was whole 20 minute of adventuring with 14th level party. And then back to yapping NPC.

It is such borefest that I tempted to drop game before seeing new Megabosses and, as I heard, nice dungeon in last DLC.

There is decent system in Deadfire and brilliant itemization, but severe absence of challenging combat (or any combat at all) for long stretches of time and general density of like 1 tiny dungeon for 5 hours of play is where game falls flat on its face.

 

PS I am playing om PoTD, but selecting all challenges and then doing non-combat quest first to level up or some stupid things like no-pause, breaking items and body-guarding low-HP NPC are even farther from my idea of fun.

Experience reduction mod solved this problem for me

[cokane]

23 hours ago, wingedchocolatecake said:

I honestly enjoyed the combat in PoE2 more. I prefer having more spells than constantly resting due to the lack of abilities. Deadfire's combat was, in my opinion, more fluid and fun. There is one major disadvantage to PoE2's combat: You can easily fall into a rhythm of just using the same spells every encounter, but still — better than micromanaging and timidly casting spells/ abilities only a few times.

I'm not sure how anybody can say the combat in Deadfire is more "fluid"? The combat, especially on higher difficulties, absolutely drags. And this substantially longer average length of encounters coupled with the ability to more effectively use monotonous strategies adds up to a combat system that, imo, may seem more compelling at first, but, in the long run, does not have the depth of its predecessor. At least in regards to an overall "dungeon crawl" experience.

Secondly, I'm not sure what benefit Deadfire has to "having more spells" in each combat, if said spells have to then be nerfed? You're essentially ending up with the same dynamic of "timidly" rationing out empowers and some consumables, only instead of auto-attacking, you have to engage in a more tedious micromanagement (or set an AI) to exhaust the same-ish list of spells and abilities that you use in every battle. It seems to have added a layer of complexity to the combat to have all these spells and abilities be used more frequently, but I'd argue, once players get a handle on the system, it's only added a layer of tedium.

Combat in the original (and even the IE games) is much quicker, more dramatic and more elegant.

[Techno]

I very much prefer PoE1 to 2. 

 

They're both great games but I found Deadfire combat systems more disconnected - discrete. The camp system in PoE 1 was imo better. It was more punishing but it made entire passages of play contigous. You had to manage and plan resource usage and success in your next encounter was often determined by how efficiently you handled the encounters leading up to it. This gives PoE1 strategic depth and it flows in an arc similar to the story telling itself.

 

PoE 2 by contrast is a series of seemingly disconnected encounters. Your strength resets after each encounter making each encounter distinct but also "samey". The story is told through jumping from island to island again making the story arc and gameplay seem disjointed.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Techno
Typographical error correction.

[Ouroboros226]

I like PoE2 better than PoE1, thanks to PoE1. Because the build-up, story and worldbuilding of the first game - made my enjoyment of the 2nd game that much better. I love both games, but PoE2 has vastly more replay value. I just completed it for the first time and I'm starting a 2nd playthrough right away, and can see me doing maybe 3-4 playthroughs of the 2nd game. While the first game I completed it twice and felt there wasn't more to do.

[kanisatha]

On 5/5/2019 at 3:38 PM, Boeroer said:

As long as steam is running and the game is not exited it will count it as playtime. Even if you to other software, your browser etc.

So if the source of gaming hours is Steam: it's not very reliable. If you suddenly realize you have to go shopping or left the stove on at you mum's place and rush off without exiting competely - it will count that as playtime.

Yup. It's what I do, and why my Steam hours counts are all at least a little inflated, though I also spend quite a bit of time in my games messing around with my inventory and equipment.

Edited September 4, 2021 by kanisatha

[xzar_monty]

14 hours ago, Techno said:

The camp system in PoE 1 was imo better. It was more punishing but it made entire passages of play contigous. You had to manage and plan resource usage

Agreed. The camp system in PoE1 was also illogical beyond reason. You had an infinite inventory, and in fact it was impossble to simply drop items (there had to be something to drop them to), but you could only carry 2 or 4 sets of camping supplies, depending on your difficulty mode. Makes no sense whatsoever.

[Eydn]

Sorry I'm a little bit late with my opinion, but I've just recently played PoE 2 for over 50 hours. Anyway, here's a little opinion about both games from me.

When I played PoE 2 I thought that there is something missing there. I mean the graphics were gorgeous (in my opinion this one of the best looking isometric cRPG's and maybe even the best), combat and leveling were way better (in my opinion) than in PoE 1... and yet something didn't clicked with me. I gave it some thought and I think I understand what didn't worked for me.

First of all I think it was the story. PoE 1 plot was interesting and I was curious what will happen next. Where will I go this time? What will I learn in this new location? I also think that the story was more personal than PoE 2. In both games we need to save ourselves, but in the first game it was more interesting and I wanted to discover new things. In sequel it's just... I don't know, not that compelling? It's like those four factions are much more important than this huge reincarnated God, who wants to do something that can change a lot of stuff. I also liked the atmosphere of PoE 1. It was darker, more melancholic and I had a feeling that something is not right with this world, like something messed it up or something is out of place, but in a good way. And story of The White March was also really interesting. Zahua and Maneha were really nice additions too.

Speaking of companions, I think in the first game they had more to say and were more fleshed out. I wanted to know more about Durance, Eder, Aloth, Grieving Mother or simply help Kana. Also I can mention only two compaions that I didn't liked in PoE 1: Devil of Carroc and Pallegina. When it comes to rest... well, what can I say? Eder was a bro and I wanted to help him. Aloth was interesting and I wanted to learn more about him, his problem and help him set things right. Grieving Mother was fascinating and her relationship (not romantic of course) with the Watcher was really something else. Plus discovering her story and knowing her better was simply put awesome. Durance? Must I say anything about him? That Magran Priest was the reason why in my first playthrough I rested as often as I could, so I could talk to him again. Kana Rua had this great personality and was a fun companion. I can write the same about Sagani, Maneha, Zahua or Hiravias (that crazy little druid). I even had problem with party composition, because I really liked them and I couldn't take all of them (except Pallegina and Devil of Carroc) with me.

In PoE 2... well... emm... I don't feel the same way about companions. Serafen was ok, Teheku I didn't like and Pallegina was even worse than she was in PoE. Eder was great, Aloth too, but Xoti and Maia were missing something. Xoti had a side quest which I helped her with, but it didn't changed her that much and it didn't involved learning something new about her. It was... meh. Maia also had a quest that didn't changed anything, and while I've learned something new it was just that, nothing more. It's like those quest lost something special, which was there in PoE 1. Not only quests, but companions too. I appreciate party banter though, it's nice to hear them talk to each other.

I also didn't liked the open world. It's huge and naming islands is nice and all, but to be honest there is a lot of space that is just not used. Nothing happens there, just long voyage to the target. Plus Aloth's Quest involved triggering a random encounter and that really sucks when you have bad luck. I was looking for this one little ship and I spent a lot of time on it. Didn't got it. After two days I tried again and got in 1 minute. I mean... why? Why do this? If I need to get a certain random encounter to complete a quest that is not a good quest design. It's just frustrating when you swim from point to point and nothing happens.

Anyway I have this weird problem with Deadfire. I like the leveling system, multiclassing, combat... but the story and rest is just not as good a the first game. I want to like it, but I can't unfortunately. Right now I do not want to play PoE 2 again. I just don't. Instead I want to go and replay either PoE 1 or Tyranny... and I think I will do just that.

[xzar_monty]

On 4/8/2022 at 11:20 PM, Eydn said:

Anyway I have this weird problem with Deadfire. I like the leveling system, multiclassing, combat... but the story and rest is just not as good a the first game. I want to like it, but I can't unfortunately. Right now I do not want to play PoE 2 again. I just don't. Instead I want to go and replay either PoE 1 or Tyranny... and I think I will do just that.

The story in Deadfire is deeply flawed in the sense that

1) you're told you are in a hurry to stop Eothas, but

2) this isn't true at all, you can take all the time you ever want, and more.

And so everything is all over the place, storywise. The world is about to be destroyed, or something, and you can just sail around the archipelago. It's weird. I love the game, but it's weird.

[Eydn]

On 4/11/2022 at 11:09 AM, xzar_monty said:

And so everything is all over the place, storywise. The world is about to be destroyed, or something, and you can just sail around the archipelago. It's weird. I love the game, but it's weird.

We also hear, that Eothas is walking around the archipelago, but there are only... two islands, where you can see what his presence caused? There is this urgency, but it doesn't seem to affect anyone. You only hear people talking about it.

Now let's take a look at PoE 1. You reach Gilded Vale and you can see corpses on the tree. Well, that doesn't sound good at all. I guess this curse has some serious impact on the people in this land. Then we go to Defiance Bay in order to stop something. There is this big mess after visitng the king and we can see how tense the world is and how easily everything can collapse. I didn't got that feeling in Deadfire. I visited many villages, some weird temples and to me this conflict between factions doesn't make sense, when you have this giant statue walking and supposedly wrecking stuff in the world. What happened in Defiance Bay made much more sense, at least for me.

[Trius]

I know I’m in the minority, but I really dislike how they moved away from the vancian magic system. I like how in the vancian system you can have spells that are only really useful in niche situations. I find it more flavorful, wizards coming up with magics for all sorts of specific things. It works in a vancian system  since most classes aren’t locked into specific ones. I think most games with it never went far enough on the rp side by not adding spells that are more useful outside of combat. 
 

Enemies can also be tailored to have immunities to a wider variety of status effects or elements. Spells can specifically target enemies like the undead. 
 

I guess what it comes down to for me is how it removed a lot of the playfulness and experimentation I would get with magic. From the start I had to look at all the spells and really plan out what this character will do. Made all the spell casters feel like sorcerers from BG or other dnd games.

 

Aside from that there is a certain story point which triggers a point of no return with the different factions which I found extremely annoying since I hadn’t finished their side content yet. I can’t even speak to the respective faction leaders without triggering a choice siding with them. I didn’t even think I was that far at all into the main story and  figured that at level 14 and after more than 10 hours of mucking about I should go ahead and do another story quest. Big mistake and I didn’t have a back up save to fix it. It just wasn’t really telegraphed at all before that point and it was so soon into the main story. I never thought it would really be that short. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Trius