The DLC talk - Favorites, dislikes, comparisons to White March etc (spoilers)

[Starwars]

Just finished up a replay of the game with all the DLC. Did most of the content in the game though there were a few things I didn't finish, bounties and I forgot to finish up the Mapping the Deadfire quest for the dude in Queen's Berth. I also didn't do any of the SSS battles that weren't part of the main quest.

 

So, how did you guys like the DLCs overall? Which one did you like the most? Do you think it compared favorably to the White March?

 

-Beast of Winter.

Prooobably my favorite of the bunch. Though, like in all the DLC's, it can be frustrating to play because battles starts to take forever. Like someone elsewhere says, it just doesn't feel that much fun when your supercharged mega empowered Missle Salvo just barely takes off a tiny sliver of health from the enemy. I also feel like the "popping enemies up behind you" or big bosses having additional adds things kinda grow stale in the DLCs.

 

I also wasn't a fan of the "puzzle" gameplay of some of the areas in this one. Teleport puzzles and stuff like... ugh. They're not headscratchers, it just becomes busywork.

 

But enough whining, I really enjoyed the lore and story that BoW explored. I think Rymrgand turned out to be one of the most well-realized gods both in terms of writing and acting. And I really liked the Bridge ablaze for the background it provided for Waidwen (very well done) as well as the bits in the Sunken Kingdom where you get the memories of how the Engwithans dealt with the king.

 

It's unfortunately the most buggy DLC for me. I had to restart the final fight with the dragon when she tried to pull my characters across those chasms you can jump across, and the characters would just get "stuck" on one side and I got the blue screen crash when Rymrgand smashes the bridge if you fight him (reported in the bug forum).

 

-Seeker, Slayer, Survivor

My least favorite of the bunch. And I knew that coming in given that it was combat focused. Now, I still enjoy some challenging fights in this game but for me, everything just gets really hard to parse with realtime w pause when you get into the high level difficult battles. There's so much going on visually that I have a really hard time "taking it in" even if I play on the slowest speed (I always do) and pause a lot.

So yeah, not a DLC for me. That said, when you finally get to the juicy storybits at the end, I really enjoyed that and was kinda sad that more of the DLC wasn't like that. Just more classic mix of story and battle. But oh well.

 

-Forgotten Sanctum

Really enjoyed the setting, am so glad they went into the weird territory. Has fun explorations of the lore, dropping cool hings here and there. And I really liked how it can tie in to the main ending of the game. 

I thought FS was a bit too... humorous. I liked that Deadfire as a whole introduced more humor but in FS I felt it went overboard in some areas, especially given the rather dark setting and situation. Seems like companions had a snarky or sassy comment to absolutely everything and there were a few areas where I even thought that I didn't have any appropriate dialogue choices for my character. Thayn didn't work for me as a character at all either personally.

 

All in all, I do like the DLCs and feel they are worthwhile. I would say I personally prefer the expansion model of the White March. Just having that connected story in one package makes the whole thing feel a bit meatier rather than the 3 "separate" stories so to speak. I have no idea how they compare in playtime but yeah, WM just feels like something you can really sink your teeth into because of how it's set up. and also because it introduced new companions. I also like that WM is something you can start fairly early on. The DLCs for Deadfire feels like they're slotted in as endgame content which kinda screws up the flow of the main story a bit. WM did that also a bit with part 2 but I find it's more noticeable in Deadfire. After FS I was like... well, it's *finally* time to go to Ukaizo, which manages to feel rather underwhelming after all the crazy stuff you've done and accomplished.

 

Sorry for the lengthy post there but just felt like writing down some thoughts. Deadfire as a whole is a tremendous game and I had a ton of fun replaying it.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Starwars

[InsaneCommander]

I prefer the WM model too. But I really liked the Deadfire DLCs. I just finished the FS and it is really good.

 

 

 

So, the Engwithans screwed with the Orlan nation and Yezuha made a deal with them and Ukaizo. Interesting.

 

 

 

I chose to

 

 

 

let the spores have Wael's body.

 

 

 

But now I'm considering replaying the battle to do as Tayn suggests. I didn't go back to the Scriptorum yet, but I hope the archmages leave the place so that I can finish "cleaning" it. Last time I tried they joined the locals.

[house2fly]

I definitely like SSS the least (the arena runs at sub-10fps on my computer on lowest settings so I couldn't actually play the fights, which make up 90% of the damn thing) but I liked the story content overall. The Seeker mentioning that Od Nua's madness was basically responsible for the creation of the gods was a nice touch, and I loved Galawain getting mad and yelling at me. SSS and BOW both have good getting-yelled-at-by-a-god feel.

 

I think Deadfire's structure lends itself better to DLCs like this than it would a big expansion like White March; I like being able to sail between smaller adventures. I wouldn't mind a DLC with no real overall story which added some quests and islands and maps to the world. And more unique warhammers.

 

I think Forgotten Sanctum is probably the best of them- the dungeoning is crazy good- but I have a soft spot for Beast Of Winter, so I'm happy to call that my favourite. The main thing is, I want to play more stuff by the DLC team, so I hope they're onto another project soon to do some cool stuff.

[uuuhhii]

bos are probably best part of the game though not favorite

the trailer of sss are some what bland

not sure why like it so much

especially liked the last part with fire titan

forgotten sanctum are everything this series need

only piece missing are a dlc about magran woedica and skaen

not just the three pieces of crown in the dlcs

[Wormerine]

I don’t know - if you put side to side WM and Deadfire’s DLC I prefer White March - a longer story arc and essentially a smaller, self contained campaign makes for a more satisfying adventure. But DLCs integrate really well with Deadfire and I think it was a right choice. Of course, I would happily pay for a standalone adventure.

 

Beast of Winter has been my favourite with a dive into a new culture and exploration of some important lore. It’s has also a benefit of being a first one and it caught be off guard by how enjoyable it was.

 

I did enjoy SSS a lot - more than I anticipated. I don’t mind a nice arena in an RPG and it was really well designed one, with interesting encounters, good story and even some unique encounters per-playthrough. As mentioned above - this area runs significantly worse than anything else in the game, which makes it especially painful considering it’s a combat heavy content.

 

Forgotten Sanctum impressed me the least - maybe it’s because it didn’t surprise me in any major way - it provides a nice mix of storytelling and encounters, but doesnt excel in one or the other like previous DLCs did. Still, a highly enjoyable dungeon.

 

Really nothing to complain except that there is nothing more to look forward to.

[house2fly]

bos are probably best part of the game though not favorite

the trailer of sss are some what bland

not sure why like it so much

especially liked the last part with fire titan

forgotten sanctum are everything this series need

only piece missing are a dlc about magran woedica and skaen

not just the three pieces of crown in the dlcs

you never know what is and isn't cut content, but I've seen hints that the next big patch may expand on the crown a little

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I'm only just now getting around to a run with SSS and FS. 

 

Beast of Winter may not be as long as White March but honestly the first game was too long and BoW feels just about "right" in terms of length, especially on replay.

 

So far in SSS I really enjoy that

one of the enemy parties is a party of bears, as per https://www.pcgamer.com/pillars-of-eternity-diary-playing-as-a-party-of-bears/ 

 

[Ophiuchus]

My main Watcher is a Pale Elf Seer who pledged to Galawain in PoE:1 so BoW and SSS spoiled me too much. FS is fun but I wish the dungeon had been a map screen longer - something about it feels "missing" in an MGS:V sort of way.

[Woopee]

I definitely like SSS the least (the arena runs at sub-10fps on my computer on lowest settings so I couldn't actually play the fights, which make up 90% of the damn thing) 

YEP, I just skip it now after the first time because the fps is so bad. It's an issue throughout the game (I guess I play on a potato?) but especially bad in the SSS arena.

[Ophiuchus]

 

I definitely like SSS the least (the arena runs at sub-10fps on my computer on lowest settings so I couldn't actually play the fights, which make up 90% of the damn thing) 

YEP, I just skip it now after the first time because the fps is so bad. It's an issue throughout the game (I guess I play on a potato?) but especially bad in the SSS arena.

 

That and the annoying backtracking for offerings makes SSS a slog on subsequent playthroughs.

[arkteryx]

I agree that SSS is the worst, disjointed fights with no real context and annoying fetch quests. The one thing they could do to redeem it would be to let us add modifiers to the fights, change the level, the terrain, special modifiers like everyone is perma-blinded or limited range. You beat one fire titan, but now can you beat three at once that are level 25 while in a slog zone but you have infinite casts? Would be unbalanced as hell but who cares, nerf xp and loot so people can't farm it, just for fun. This is after you've beaten the fights properly once of course. Make it a proper combat simulator. Would be good for playing with builds if nothing else.

 

I thought BoW was pretty good, only major complaint is giving us a companion who's special attacks are worthless against the majority of its enemies. I get thematically that an ice expansion would have a character that uses ice attacks, but it disincentives you to bring him along.

 

My favorite though was definitely FS, maybe just because I love dungeon-crawling. Big, interconnected areas are more interesting to me than so much of deadfire where you go somewhere, have one fight, then go back to the world map. Even if walking around an area map between fights like in PoE1 is functionally the same thing, it just feels more immersive, cohesive. I felt like there were more meaningful decisions too, not only which order to tackle things, but what to do with the fungus, the organs, and of course the body. I look forward to playing it again and doing things differently, see what happens. On the other hand I guess I'll make the opposite choices in SSS and BoW next time just because but I don't expect them to change much. Thematically it worked well with my irreverent Watcher though I could see how it might conflict with a more serious RP.

[anameforobsidian]

I would rank Forgotten Sanctum as my clear favorite.  The Dungeon was more complex, it offered you some fun choices that seemed like they had impact.  Tayn and Llengrath were fully developed characters and their banter was well written.  The lore was really cool, and it offered a fun mix of stealth, problem-solving, and combat.

 

Next comes Seeker, Slayer, Survivor.  The story was pretty garbage, but the combat was really, really fun.  Better yet, I love the way they pushed the challenge system.   The challenge of the Boar is one of the most memorable parts of the game.  And the setting really fit in with the lore.  The ending was rushed however.

 

I thought Beast of Winter just didn't feel finished.  St. Waidwen's prison was really cool, but the other two didn't quite match up.  The town was pretty cool, but there wasn't as much to do there.  The whole thing needed another five hours of content and explorable area.  It also was waaay too linear.

 

 

All of that said, I think White March was better than DLC any day of the week.   It told a more cohesive narrative, had many places to explore, and told several stories instead of just one.

[bugarup]

I cannot do a viable comparison -- played PoE with WM as one game -- huge advantage over disjointed bits of Deadfire's DLC (played with non bluffy, not talky Charnames to boot), but then I liked everything about Deadfire better. Still, WM brings back v. fond memories -- leaving the doom and gloom world and finding out that new one is even doomier and gloomier; getting my as$ handed out to me by goons assaulting Concelhaut's home; eerie music; that utter horrible as$hole of Bleak Walker; those little stun-happy Lagufaeth as$holes; Zahua; Vithracks (hope they return for hyphotetical PoE3). Devil's dungeon and tunnels under Dwarf Fortress were a little too long, too tedious and the ending crawl could have had a little less hammerhead monstrosities, but it did not spoil the impression. I would even say I liked WM a bit more than the main game, on account of being a bit weirder, less traditional fantasy. And, of course, gloomier. 

 

Deadfire, I loved the main campaign much more than any of DLC, but from those Forgotten Sanctum was the best. Loved characters v. much: Tayn    (and of course Aloth hated him), Bekarna was such a lovable dork, got to know Fassina better and found out she's cool, the main game's regulars had a nice quip or two as well; loved environments; loved how I couldn't zerg boss fights anymore and actually had to think what abilities of my highly unoptimized party to use; loved having to use stealth; loved messing with books of blind librarians, loved befriending mushrooms, did not love having to murder a family of bears. Again. 

 

SSS would be the second -- I love when I can solve stuff in RPGs without resorting to murder and so always go for this option, but then it has unfortunate consequence of me having a ton of most interesting murder tools in my possession but no murderables to try them on. SSS rectified that (although I'd prefer if it did it without trying to fry my PC during those big fights with many critters and special effects).

 

 

Beast of Winter's would be the least liked then (but still liked). I don't care for the god stuff much and all the backtracking between different realms/different times was annoying, so was fighting those dudes on the bridge, so was trying to beat up that titanium undead dragon in the end; liked Vatnir and being lippy to Rymrgand. Did not care AT ALL for having to murder Papa and Mama bears and steal their orphaned cub.    What the hell Obz, what ever bears did to you? 

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Ok, I've completed SSS.

 

It is what it is. I enjoy the combat and so it was a nice series of tactical battles I could mostly take or leave. Most of the unique items were pretty lackluster, which is fine. I liked that Konstanten got a larger role (and now that I've found a build I like for him, I expect him to be a mainstay of future runs; he's got great voice acting and always reminds me of

). 

 

I think the best thing about SSS is that it's very convenient if you just want to come home from work and take an hour or a half hour to do a fight without having to take the time for following a narrative. It's lots of little snack-sized encounters. It's great for testing out builds or testing party AI scripts -- when I was setting up my Fassina build for FS, it was really convenient to be able to just start up the Gul encounter and see if her AI could handle that correctly, etc.

 

Moving on to FS now.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Verde]

The BoW and FS are exceptionally done, much better written and creative than the main game. I love the options you have for dealing with the Dragon in BoW and FS is a darkly funny Lovecraftian dream. The spore colony makes it so worthwhile and had me in stitches. I may actually ask Wael to let them grow haha.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Verde

[thelee]

my thoughts as no one in particular:

The BoW and FS are exceptionally done, much better written and creative than the main game. I love the options you have for dealing with the Dragon in BoW and FS is a darkly funny Lovecraftian dream. The spore colony makes it so worthwhile and had me in stitches. I may actually ask Wael to let them grow haha.

 

I agree. I've said it before elsewhere, but BoW also has my narratively favorite pillars sequence in the entire game (the bridge ablaze sequence), which explored an area of the lore that most games and game worlds would be content to leave as mere mythos. And the lovecraftian setting in FS has surprisingly been underdone in these types of RPGs and I really liked it (the closest equivalent I can maybe think of is the illithid lair in BG2, but there wasn't much plot to that area). I totally convinced Wael to let the spore colony grow and thought the ending slide for it was great.

 

From a replay perspective, though, FS is my favorite. Better dungeoneering, high-level encounters, interesting fights (whereas BoW sometimes gets real repetitive with the umtpeenth soul collector or big beast guy, and all those burning archers that keep popping up from the ground gets old and feels a bit unfair at times). Plus, even if it doesn't have the same kicker of story that I thought BoW did (and Rymrgand got fleshed out way more interestingly than Wael I thought), well, now tayn I can get into! 

 

Ok, I've completed SSS.

 

It is what it is. I enjoy the combat and so it was a nice series of tactical battles I could mostly take or leave. Most of the unique items were pretty lackluster, which is fine. I liked that Konstanten got a larger role (and now that I've found a build I like for him, I expect him to be a mainstay of future runs; he's got great voice acting and always reminds me of

). 

 

I think the best thing about SSS is that it's very convenient if you just want to come home from work and take an hour or a half hour to do a fight without having to take the time for following a narrative. It's lots of little snack-sized encounters. It's great for testing out builds or testing party AI scripts -- when I was setting up my Fassina build for FS, it was really convenient to be able to just start up the Gul encounter and see if her AI could handle that correctly, etc.

 

Moving on to FS now.

 

I didn't care much for SSS the first time through, but I like it more on replays for this reason. It's fun having these isolated battles just to throw my parties at and see how they perform. The story is thin, but for replays that works out fine for me since I'm skimming/skipping through text anyway. I really hate the seeker challenge where you get transformed, though... just awful. You spend so much time carefully leveling your party and then they all get replaced by the same transmogrified group of creatures that any party gets, and you're expected to fight with that, not to mention that the transmogrification is imperfect so some classes do obscenely well (paladin auras, martial classes with lots of passives).

Edited February 20, 2019 by thelee

[Crucis]

I have only gotten maybe 2/3's or so through Beast of Winter, and quite honestly, I don't like the story.  I don't mind the village at all or that first couple of maps after the village, but I hate the maps after that point where you ...

 

 

go to Rymrgand's other dimensional domain.

 

 

I just didn't like that part of the story.  Too damned "god-y".  Too weird.  On top of that, the fight with the …

 

 

dracolich

 

 

has been way too difficult for my taste.  Thankfully, I save often and had saved immediately before the battle.  And was, even more thankfully, able to leave … that place … and get back to the village.  I'd originally intended to just rest up and re-organize my party for another attempt, but then I decided to heck with it and left the island entirely to finish some a couple of areas (Ashen Maw, in particular), get some more swag, earn some more coin, upgrade certain items, and possibly respec certain characters.

 

I don't know if the game will let me do SSS before completing BW, but I'd like to try.  We'll see.

 

 

Edit:  BTW, I agree with those that liked the White March better than these DLC's, even if I've only played a good portion of BW and not touched SSS or FS yet.  WM seemed much more down to earth (or rather, Eora), if you catch my drift, than BW.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Crucis

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Oh yeah for the transformation fight I just respected Pallegina to have the healing aura and reshelved her afterwards.

[house2fly]

I don't know if the game will let me do SSS before completing BW, but I'd like to try.  We'll see.

 

Yes, with each DLC you're free to come and go as you please, with the exception of one climactic area in each DLC where the only way out is through

[thelee]

 

I don't know if the game will let me do SSS before completing BW, but I'd like to try.  We'll see.

 

Yes, with each DLC you're free to come and go as you please, with the exception of one climactic area in each DLC where the only way out is through

 

 

is there one for FS? I don't remember... in fact I was on rymrgand's challenge and kept making trips out to harbinger's watch for some more of that lager and brew battered ysae.

[Verde]

Out of BoW and FS, I thought FS was harder. It certainly tested my decked out lvl 20 party.

 

For BoW I had the benefit of knowing the three main skill checks to get one of the diplomatic solutions. That Dragon fight can be a pain esp if you have to repeat it.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Verde

[house2fly]

 

 

I don't know if the game will let me do SSS before completing BW, but I'd like to try.  We'll see.

 

Yes, with each DLC you're free to come and go as you please, with the exception of one climactic area in each DLC where the only way out is through

 

 

is there one for FS? I don't remember... in fact I was on rymrgand's challenge and kept making trips out to harbinger's watch for some more of that lager and brew battered ysae.

 

 

Yeah, you have to jump down a pit to get to the final boss room, a bit like in PoE1

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Ok, yeah, forgotten sanctum was great. The only downside is it could've been a little longer, but those would probably have just been trash mob fights, so that's ok.

[Crucis]

Ok, yeah, forgotten sanctum was great. The only downside is it could've been a little longer, but those would probably have just been trash mob fights, so that's ok.

 

I guess that I just don't get all this wailing and complaining about so-called trash mobs.  They don't bother me a bit.  Every battle can't be one boss fight after another.  That's be annoying and frustrating and boring as all hell, at least to me.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

Ok, yeah, forgotten sanctum was great. The only downside is it could've been a little longer, but those would probably have just been trash mob fights, so that's ok.

 

I guess that I just don't get all this wailing and complaining about so-called trash mobs.  They don't bother me a bit.  Every battle can't be one boss fight after another.  That's be annoying and frustrating and boring as all hell, at least to me.

 

 

 

I don't mind them that much because I like the combat and play on POTD, but to the folks playing on story mode who don't like the combat, they're just a waste of time. Ideally you want every encounter to have some kind of story attached to it.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy