Level cap raise

[AndreaColombo]

I thought the point of fighting was the fun of the fight itself. People have been complaining that the game’s fights were too easy and this DLC provides harder fights.

[lord_wc]

I won't buy the DLC just for the offchance that they made a working AI.

My guess that these fights are 'difficult' because the enemies have numerical superiority or overbuffed stats, it's not their approach, composition or scripting that makes the fights challenging.

 

And the base game and first DLC has enough wet sponge fights already. The base game itself is not challenging as all that enemies get are just flat more stats. The only challenge on my PotD solo run with god's challenge were not falling asleep until I dwindle the enemy hp away.

 

I'm really curious, did they do better scripting with fights or just did a 10% stat increase on the enemies?

Edited September 26, 2018 by lord_wc

[Sarakash]

For what it´s worth, I never have been a big fan of a level cap in general. It always strikes me as a lazy design choice, especially with the option to scale encounters.

 

Obsidian could have just limit the rewards past lvl. 20, including the rise in power level for multiclasses. Or work with something like diminishing returns to better simulate the plateau effect.

[asnjas]

Its seems like there are two groups of people:those that make video games for a living and wannabe armchair developers.

 

Its funny to think obsidian is well past this entire thread, already been there done that and finally settled in what they felt best regarding the whole leveling issue.

 

You must set a limit on levels. Levels cant feel hollow so why not cut out all levels where they have no skills planned for the player. Whats the point of reaching a new level if you get nothing besides stat increase? Its a boring, meaningless level.

 

If every level is meaningful then you cant designed for the player to reach it too late or else he misses the fun of using those end game skills.

[bringingyouthefuture]

Remember when the level cap was 99 because developers only made levels a two digit number??? lol I can't remember a game that didn't have a cap ... but maybe there is somewhere out there.

[Wormerine]

Huh, pointless to buy then.

A fight DLC that doesn't even give you XP, lol.

I think you have mistaken DLC with an xp boost. Those DLC give you content to play, not power to make the rest of the game even more unbalanced than it already is. 

[Tigranes]

*shrug* what I want is content that is enjoyable to experience, not some artificial set of 'rewards' that an algorithm hands out.

[Lótus Haddock]

XP nerf... 25% less xp from all sources!

[InsaneCommander]

Remember when the level cap was 99 because developers only made levels a two digit number??? lol I can't remember a game that didn't have a cap ... but maybe there is somewhere out there.

 

I think I actually counted how many levels I gained in... FFX? Iirc it was the one with no level number, you just gained the level, chose new abilities and there was no number to let you know your level. If I counted correctly, I went above 100, which was quite strange at the time.

[KDubya]

It is a structural problem with the game itself, levels mean too much. Any tough fight the best answer is to come back at a higher level. Levels get you accuracy, defense, hit points and new abilities.

 

In Baldur's Gate you hit a hit point cap at level nine or so, levels past that had a minimal impact. Additional levels also took substantially more experience which further reduced level bloat.

 

In Divinity Original Sin 2 you only get to choose a skill and some stat points which might unlock another skill slot, access to skills is fully realized at level 16 and you'll end up 18-21 or so. You'll have a fully fleshed out build at 16 or earlier but still have levels to gain which are helpful but not crucial (other than the level bloat from equipment stats but that is another animal)

 

Somehow you'd want to combine a few different game systems - Use DOS2 for the minimal impact on levels at the high end for skills and use the fixed nature of the Deadfire equipment.

 

Personally if I max out a character I get bored and seek to finish up the main quest and call it done. Perhaps better balance would change my opinion but its hard to say and probably will never happen anyway. 

[lord_wc]

 

Huh, pointless to buy then.

A fight DLC that doesn't even give you XP, lol.

I think you have mistaken DLC with an xp boost. Those DLC give you content to play, not power to make the rest of the game even more unbalanced than it already is. 

 

No, you have mistaken this DLC with content. A fight DLC is not content, there are only two reasons to buy it:

1) enjoyable and challenging fights (since for Obsidian this lately meant statbuffing enemies and keep the overly sophisticated 'let's bumrush the closest character' combat script, you are guaranteed to not get any of this)

2) rewards (as the level cap is incredibly low and you can reach it halfway into the game already XP it gives is meaningless).

 

So, why buy this DLC? Just go anywhere else on the map and fight mobs, same thing.

 

You must set a limit on levels. 

I'll let slip this stupid 'develop a better game' argument - I can criticize as much as I want, they can listen to it or not, just as I decide to buy their product or not.

 

I don't have problems with level cap. I have problems with a level cap that you reach in the first quest hub if you happen to solo, keeping you at max level for over 50% of the original game. If you add more content you just add more time people spend on max level, which is honestly boring due to the fact the game doesn't really offer more than the very good leveling/character building.

 

So, yeah, sure, NWN2 OC had max level of 20. Then came the first DLC and they increased it to 30. For BG:

1 was 89 000 xp

1 expansion increased it to 161 000

2 was 2 950 000 xp

2 ToB increased it to 8 000 000.

 

Hell, even poe 1st expansion gave 2 more levels and the second further 2.

 

Current DLC scheme from this game reeks of lazyness and greed.

[house2fly]

A good rule of thumb is, if someone is accusing game developers of being lazy, then you can assume their opinion is just not worth listening to without first needing them to explain why the DLC they haven't played and don't intend to "isn't content"

[Manveru123]

There are mods that slow down level progression. Use them.

[lord_wc]

A good rule of thumb is, if someone is accusing game developers of being lazy, then you can assume their opinion is just not worth listening to without first needing them to explain why the DLC they haven't played and don't intend to "isn't content"

Good rule. Like mine where I don't really care about people's whining that go all out ad hominem instead of trying to argue my points.

[baldurs_gate_2]

 

 

Huh, pointless to buy then.

A fight DLC that doesn't even give you XP, lol.

I think you have mistaken DLC with an xp boost. Those DLC give you content to play, not power to make the rest of the game even more unbalanced than it already is. 

 

No, you have mistaken this DLC with content. A fight DLC is not content, there are only two reasons to buy it:

1) enjoyable and challenging fights (since for Obsidian this lately meant statbuffing enemies and keep the overly sophisticated 'let's bumrush the closest character' combat script, you are guaranteed to not get any of this)

2) rewards (as the level cap is incredibly low and you can reach it halfway into the game already XP it gives is meaningless).

 

So, why buy this DLC? Just go anywhere else on the map and fight mobs, same thing.

 

You must set a limit on levels. 

I'll let slip this stupid 'develop a better game' argument - I can criticize as much as I want, they can listen to it or not, just as I decide to buy their product or not.

 

I don't have problems with level cap. I have problems with a level cap that you reach in the first quest hub if you happen to solo, keeping you at max level for over 50% of the original game. If you add more content you just add more time people spend on max level, which is honestly boring due to the fact the game doesn't really offer more than the very good leveling/character building.

 

So, yeah, sure, NWN2 OC had max level of 20. Then came the first DLC and they increased it to 30. For BG:

1 was 89 000 xp

1 expansion increased it to 161 000

2 was 2 950 000 xp

2 ToB increased it to 8 000 000.

 

Hell, even poe 1st expansion gave 2 more levels and the second further 2.

 

Current DLC scheme from this game reeks of lazyness and greed.

 

True. If they can not give us more PL // Talents, they should give us more deflection // acc maybe pen with level ups. I don't even have to reach neketaka to reach level 10, only maje --> deadlight ---> dunnage ---> crookspur loot ---> nemnok cloak and with the disarm traps you are 10, at least with a rogue multiclass.

[house2fly]

 

A good rule of thumb is, if someone is accusing game developers of being lazy, then you can assume their opinion is just not worth listening to without first needing them to explain why the DLC they haven't played and don't intend to "isn't content"

Good rule. Like mine where I don't really care about people's whining that go all out ad hominem instead of trying to argue my points.

 

ad ho·mi·nem

ˌad ˈhämənəm/Submit

adverb & adjective

1.

(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

"vicious ad hominem attacks"

 

For example, when something you want isn't in a game and you say it's because the people who make the game are lazy and greedy.

[Wormerine]

 

 

Huh, pointless to buy then.

A fight DLC that doesn't even give you XP, lol.

 

I think you have mistaken DLC with an xp boost. Those DLC give you content to play, not power to make the rest of the game even more unbalanced than it already is.

No, you have mistaken this DLC with content. A fight DLC is not content, there are only two reasons to buy it:

1) enjoyable and challenging fights (since for Obsidian this lately meant statbuffing enemies and keep the overly sophisticated 'let's bumrush the closest character' combat script, you are guaranteed to not get any of this)

2) rewards (as the level cap is incredibly low and you can reach it halfway into the game already XP it gives is meaningless).

 

So, why buy this DLC? Just go anywhere else on the map and fight mobs, same thing.

So... gameplay is not a content of a game? Interesting perspective.

 

I am not far into DLC but I am very impressed with encounter design so far. If the rest of it I on similar level I would say it is absolutely worth the money. Can’t think of a better designed arena content.

[PentaFlash]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, so I apologize if this is old news.

While looking through the gamedatabundles for modding purposes I came across the table managing power levels.

The table looks like this for single classes :

"SingleClassPowerLevelByCharacterLevel": [

"1",

"1",

"2",

"2",

"3",

"3",

"4",

"4",

"5",

"5",

"6",

"6",

"7",

"7",

"7",

"8",

"8",

"8",

"9",

"9",

"9",

"10",

"10",

"10",

"11",

"11",

"11",

"12",

"12",

"12"

],

This clearly shows that at some time they were considering power levels up to 12 and character levels up to 30. Doesn't mean they are still going to

do that of course. Just thought it was interesting.

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

Remember when the level cap was 99 because developers only made levels a two digit number??? lol I can't remember a game that didn't have a cap ... but maybe there is somewhere out there.

 

I think I actually counted how many levels I gained in... FFX? Iirc it was the one with no level number, you just gained the level, chose new abilities and there was no number to let you know your level. If I counted correctly, I went above 100, which was quite strange at the time.

 

I mean I don't really but I do kind of miss killing slimes for levels ... in a weird nostalgia kind of way ...

[baldurs_gate_2]

 

Remember when the level cap was 99 because developers only made levels a two digit number??? lol I can't remember a game that didn't have a cap ... but maybe there is somewhere out there.

 

I think I actually counted how many levels I gained in... FFX? Iirc it was the one with no level number, you just gained the level, chose new abilities and there was no number to let you know your level. If I counted correctly, I went above 100, which was quite strange at the time.

 

Even FFX has a max "Level", when all your stats are 255 and the HP are 99.999. But that takes ages and is just not worth it. Esp Magic was ludacris hard to get and is worthless in the end, compared to physical damage :)I played the game for 89 hours and had only magic and the hp left to max out, but that was not worth the time .s

Edited September 27, 2018 by baldurs_gate_2

[Aleh1811]

 

 

Huh, pointless to buy then.

A fight DLC that doesn't even give you XP, lol.

I think you have mistaken DLC with an xp boost. Those DLC give you content to play, not power to make the rest of the game even more unbalanced than it already is. 

 

No, you have mistaken this DLC with content. A fight DLC is not content, there are only two reasons to buy it:

1) enjoyable and challenging fights (since for Obsidian this lately meant statbuffing enemies and keep the overly sophisticated 'let's bumrush the closest character' combat script, you are guaranteed to not get any of this)

2) rewards (as the level cap is incredibly low and you can reach it halfway into the game already XP it gives is meaningless).

 

So, why buy this DLC? Just go anywhere else on the map and fight mobs, same thing.

 

You must set a limit on levels. 

I'll let slip this stupid 'develop a better game' argument - I can criticize as much as I want, they can listen to it or not, just as I decide to buy their product or not.

 

I don't have problems with level cap. I have problems with a level cap that you reach in the first quest hub if you happen to solo, keeping you at max level for over 50% of the original game. If you add more content you just add more time people spend on max level, which is honestly boring due to the fact the game doesn't really offer more than the very good leveling/character building.

 

So, yeah, sure, NWN2 OC had max level of 20. Then came the first DLC and they increased it to 30. For BG:

1 was 89 000 xp

1 expansion increased it to 161 000

2 was 2 950 000 xp

2 ToB increased it to 8 000 000.

 

Hell, even poe 1st expansion gave 2 more levels and the second further 2.

 

Current DLC scheme from this game reeks of lazyness and greed.

 

In the case of baldurs gate two, TOB was set after finishing the game which made raising the level cap rather mandatory. That is not the case with deadfire´s dlc, although maybe it should also be that way. Personally i would prefer if both the rate of gaining experience was slowed down and the next  DLC also increases the cap a little bit (and also has the difficulty to make it interesting with a higher cap). I know there are mods that can do that, but personally i feel that because slowing the rate of experience gain is such a popular request they should just apply in the base game.

 

Also they could increase the difficulty level of the main story quests to compensate for a higher level cap.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Aleh1811