Level cap raise

[aleksanderqvist]

Hello everyone.

Does anyone here know if the level cap is going to be raised in future DLC?

I finished PoE 2 before any DLC and was at max level even though i didnt explore everything.

It seems a bit hollow for me to go through the DLCs without any sense of progress... I know you can do it for the story and such, but without the increase in level it doesnt really feel significant. 

 

So, does anyone know if the level cap will be raised in the future?

[house2fly]

They don't seem to be raising the level cap for the second DLC. Maybe the third? In the meantime there are soulbound weapons to upgrade, which is kind of progress, and of course you can get a mod to do it!

[InsaneCommander]

I don't think there has been any hint about a possible level cap raise. But there is always hope.

 

One way or another, you can enjoy the story of the first DLC, the combats in the second and whatever comes in the third. There should be enough entertainment to distract you from reaching the top.

[Teclis23]

There is a tremendous amount of confusion regarding the matter and it would be good if OBS could address the issue.

 

All the indicators are that they wont raise it as it would take to much resources to do it and they have run out of money

Edited September 23, 2018 by Teclis23

[house2fly]

It's trivial to raise the level cap, new abilities is what would cost. Two abilities per power level sounds pretty anemic, yet having two new power levels with a measly two abilities each per class would be 44 abilities altogether. Creating and implementing that would take time and resources away from making cool new weapons and enemies to fight.

 

Personally, what I think they should do is just get rid of the level cap- when you hit power level 9 you stay there and can keep on selecting abilities from the already-unlocked levels. Let multiclasses reach power level 9, it just takes longer so there's still a cost involved. I doubt that there'd be enough xp to get past level 25 or so, even with all the DLCs and megabosses

[InsaneCommander]

Personally, what I think they should do is just get rid of the level cap- when you hit power level 9 you stay there and can keep on selecting abilities from the already-unlocked levels. Let multiclasses reach power level 9, it just takes longer so there's still a cost involved. I doubt that there'd be enough xp to get past level 25 or so, even with all the DLCs and megabosses

 

^This. By the time multiclass characters reach level 9, there won't be much left, so it's no big deal.

[Tigranes]

I'd rather they rebalance the progression, than add meaningless levels or add more abilities than they can properly design.

[ilsendoodle]

I'd rather they rebalance the progression, than add meaningless levels or add more abilities than they can properly design.

 

 

Divinity does progression pretty well.  Not sure what the issue is here.  It's not like it's off by a little bit.  It's off by a massive amount.

[xzar_monty]

Amazing how this is such a problem in both PoEs. In PoE, I reached maximum level right at the start of the last chapter. Well, the game stopped being interesting right there and then, with maybe 25% still left undone. In an RPG, the ability the develop is so crucial.

[cokane]

Amazing how this is such a problem in both PoEs. In PoE, I reached maximum level right at the start of the last chapter. Well, the game stopped being interesting right there and then, with maybe 25% still left undone. In an RPG, the ability the develop is so crucial.

 

Yeah, there really needs to a be at least a god's challenge where the experience gain is severely nerfed, as Tigranes suggests above.

 

It's amazing going back to the original Baldur's Gate, I did a semi-completionist playthrough. The only thing I really skipped was the EE companion quests. Did everything I could possibly do before Durlag's Tower. Hit max level midway thru that. So the only parts where I was max was the remainder of that dungeon and the final stretch to face Sarevok.

 

Whereas a recent playthrough of the original PoE1, I was trying to maximize difficulty while being mostly completionist. So I did all of WM1 and then all of Twin Elms. And I hit max level at the start of WM2, with sooo much content left. This issue is worse in Deadfire and will only worsen with the DLC's. I think the best solution is an experience nerf as one of the god's challenges.

[uuuhhii]

20 should be the level cap

they may add more high level ability or 10 power level

but doesn't increase level cap will be great direction

so poe3 doesn't have to have level 30

[Wormerine]

There is a tremendous amount of confusion regarding the matter and it would be good if OBS could address the issue.

 

All the indicators are that they wont raise it as it would take to much resources to do it and they have run out of money

What confusion? At no point did Obs indicate that they are planning to increase lvl cap. The only thing is the recent Brandon Adler response to question during stream that they might look intro xp distribution once all DLCs are out, to account for extra xp.

[baldurs_gate_2]

It's trivial to raise the level cap, new abilities is what would cost. Two abilities per power level sounds pretty anemic, yet having two new power levels with a measly two abilities each per class would be 44 abilities altogether. Creating and implementing that would take time and resources away from making cool new weapons and enemies to fight.

 

Personally, what I think they should do is just get rid of the level cap- when you hit power level 9 you stay there and can keep on selecting abilities from the already-unlocked levels. Let multiclasses reach power level 9, it just takes longer so there's still a cost involved. I doubt that there'd be enough xp to get past level 25 or so, even with all the DLCs and megabosses

If you play solo, there is maybe enough xp to reach more than level 25.

[JerekKruger]

 

There is a tremendous amount of confusion regarding the matter and it would be good if OBS could address the issue.

 

All the indicators are that they wont raise it as it would take to much resources to do it and they have run out of money

What confusion? At no point did Obs indicate that they are planning to increase lvl cap. The only thing is the recent Brandon Adler response to question during stream that they might look intro xp distribution once all DLCs are out, to account for extra xp.

Indeed. Not knowing whether something is going to happen in the future is not confusion. Confusion would be if Obsidian had said "we going to raise the level cap" in one place and said "we not going to raise the level cap" in another.

 

As for why they may not raise it, it almost certainly has nothing to do with lack of money. As others have said the difficult (and costly) part of raising the cap is coming up with new abilities, but the latest beta patch has a bunch of new abilities for Rangers so clearly they aren't so cash strapped as to be unable to do so.

 

I suspect it's a matter of balancing. The classes are far less balanced than they were in PoE1 at this stage, and whether or not you care about that Obsidian do. Adding new abilities with be levels throws the balance out of whack even more, so if guess that's why Obsidian don't want to do so.

 

It could also be a case of the being nowhere to go from here. At max level a priest can summon an incarnation of their god. What exactly can you do to top that for a level 10 spell?

[AndreaColombo]

I don’t get the obsession with wanting to max out right before the end. If there’s no content left to enjoy the apex of your power, all the time you’ve spent building it was wasted.

 

I’d rather have a lot of content to go that was actually balanced for max-level parties, tbh.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I don’t get the obsession with wanting to max out right before the end. If there’s no content left to enjoy the apex of your power, all the time you’ve spent building it was wasted.

 

I’d rather have a lot of content to go that was actually balanced for max-level parties, tbh.

Yeah, so much this! ^

 

It was the same in the NWN2 OC, you hit level 20 right at the end, so that exciting power you finally attained meant almost nothing, and you didn't get to enjoy it much: a few undead dungeon encounters and the end boss.

I really wish that CRPGs were designed more like BG1, where you reach the level cap much earlier, and then you have hours upon hours of fun exploring those max levels (for the game in question). 

[JerekKruger]

I don’t get the obsession with wanting to max out right before the end. If there’s no content left to enjoy the apex of your power, all the time you’ve spent building it was wasted.

 

I’d rather have a lot of content to go that was actually balanced for max-level parties, tbh.

I can see it from both sides. I definitely agree that I want to actually enjoy my top level abilities for a decent amount of time and not just get them before the final boss, but I also enjoy the process of levelling so I'd probably get bored if, say, I reached max level halfway through the game.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yeah, there is a limit to all of this. Having played BG1 heaps of times, I can hit that level cap a bit too early, me reckons, so I get too much max level time, and that's not the sweet spot either. 

[uuuhhii]

I don’t get the obsession with wanting to max out right before the end. If there’s no content left to enjoy the apex of your power, all the time you’ve spent building it was wasted.

 

I’d rather have a lot of content to go that was actually balanced for max-level parties, tbh.

agree

max level should be achieve by half of the game content

and some level scaling make the rest still present some challenge

[Elric Galad]

I think the easiest way would be to introduce "Veteran Levels" which wouldn't change PL.

You may keep gaining +3Acc / +3 All Def / + HP / +Skill.

 

Nothing more. Too complicated to balance otherwise and it would still be a bit rewarding.

 

Alternatevely they can add a God Challenge that decrease XP gain.

[house2fly]

Amazing how this is such a problem in both PoEs. In PoE, I reached maximum level right at the start of the last chapter. Well, the game stopped being interesting right there and then, with maybe 25% still left undone. In an RPG, the ability the develop is so crucial.

It's an artificial feeling of progression, the same reason achievements and lootboxes are so popular. Maybe more RPGs could take a page from action games' book and let you "buy" abilities and upgrades with xp rather than unlocking them automatically at level-up. Choose a new ability OR an HP upgrade OR extra accuracy, etc.

[Verde]

It is a bit confusing why there hasn't been a challenge yet that nerfs XP gain. But really they should prob slightly nerf XP gain as it is, maybe a blanket -10% with the DLCs coming out AND add a challenge.

[house2fly]

The tough part of balancing this kind of thing is, if they make it so you hit level 20 right at the end of the game with only a couple of DLC quests and the megabosses left, that means you have to play through everything to get to top level. What if you don't want to run around the Gullet getting a soup kitchen started, or don't feel like bothering with Rauatai this playthrough? Well then you're only getting to level 19, sucker.

[Tigranes]

It's part of the nonlinearity problem - if you nerf XP gain, then some people miss 40% of the XP out there without even realising, and then they're level 10 at the endgame.

 

With the god challenges they have the answer on a plate. Would be delighted with options to turn off increased XP gain with less party members, and/or some kind of curved XP cut where later game XP is cut far more (or just redo the levelling table, which is probably easier).

[cokane]

The tough part of balancing this kind of thing is, if they make it so you hit level 20 right at the end of the game with only a couple of DLC quests and the megabosses left, that means you have to play through everything to get to top level. What if you don't want to run around the Gullet getting a soup kitchen started, or don't feel like bothering with Rauatai this playthrough? Well then you're only getting to level 19, sucker.

 

I think this is a perfectly fine outcome. If you don't play at least semi-completionist, you don't hit max level. I fail to see what's wrong with this outcome. I feel like the players who aren't interested in doing every single quest will be satisfied with not being the highest possible level at game's end.