My gripe with dialogue wheels

[kirottu]

Why don't dialogue wheels accurately reflect what the character is going to say when the voiced response is short enough to fit in the dialogue wheel? Is this because someone thought it would be confusing to have to separate between two different types of responses, paraphrased and non-paraphrased?

 

I don't think two is too much for anyone if developers would make it clear. It is just two after all.

 

Firstly lets put short responses in quotation marks. If I pick "Yes" option in dialogue wheel, my character actually says "Yes" and not "Sure". Secondly short responses should always be in the same color as the subtitles, so we could put the longer, paraphrased responses in different color. Also paraphrased options wouldn't be in quotation marks, because they aren't direct quotations.

 

Example:

 

NPC: "Will you do this thing for me?"

 

Dialogue option 1: "Sure."

Dialogue option 2: I'm not sure if I can trust you.

 

Voiced option 1: "Sure."

Voiced option 2: "Last time you escaped and left me alone. What can you say to make me to trust you again?"

 

 

Right? This should be clear enough for everyone? 

Edited August 31, 2018 by kirottu

[Rosbjerg]

I imagine It's a product of two design departments not really working together, like one writing the short prose first and a writing department fleshing it out later.. or a lack of experience or unrealistic time constraints on the writers part, in general.

 

But yeah, it makes me quit a game. I liked L.A Noir's gameplay well enough, but every single dialouge pissed me off, to the point I couldn't enjoy the game.

[Gfted1]

I think the only game Ive played with a dialog wheel is SWTOR. In that case I would just pick whichever response provided me Darkside points and I didn't even really pay attention to the text options.

[Lexx]

It is assumed folks don't like to read long text, so everything is shortened to the bare minimum. Not the actual dialog, though... because you can listen to it after and don't need to read it.

 

It's pretty funny in L.A. Noir, imo, when you chose a calm sounding dialog option and your character yells it in the NPCs face. :D

[HoonDing]

used to be i just clicked through dialogue and read journal afterwards

 

now i just follow quest compass

[LittleArmadillo0]

The main problem with dialogue wheels is that there is a repetition that is going on. After playing a game with dialogue wheel you can pretty much spot what kind of choice is presented without even analyzing the contents of what you are about to say.

[GhostofAnakin]

Yeah, it's incredibly annoying when the response options you're shown don't accurately reflect what the character ends up saying.

 

Option shown: "I'm unsure I can trust you."

 

Dialogue spoken after choosing this: "You're an untrustworthy lout who deserves his entire race killed in an instant!  Give me one reason why I shouldn't end your bloodline right now, heathen?"

 

Uh, what?  I went from assuming my character was just going to be skeptical of him to basically laying down an insulting challenge to his entire species?!  And I'm supposed to be on a diplomatic mission!

[Orogun01]

Why don't dialogue wheels accurately reflect what the character is going to say when the voiced response is short enough to fit in the dialogue wheel? Is this because someone thought it would be confusing to have to separate between two different types of responses, paraphrased and non-paraphrased?

 

I don't think two is too much for anyone if developers would make it clear. It is just two after all.

 

Firstly lets put short responses in quotation marks. If I pick "Yes" option in dialogue wheel, my character actually says "Yes" and not "Sure". Secondly short responses should always be in the same color as the subtitles, so we could put the longer, paraphrased responses in different color. Also paraphrased options wouldn't be in quotation marks, because they aren't direct quotations.

 

Example:

 

NPC: "Will you do this thing for me?"

 

Dialogue option 1: "Sure."

Dialogue option 2: I'm not sure if I can trust you.

 

Voiced option 1: "Sure."

Voiced option 2: "Last time you escaped and left me alone. What can you say to make me to trust you again?"

 

 

Right? This should be clear enough for everyone? 

Its cause people think that people don't like reading and they will tell to shorten the descriptions.

 

I didn't read your post BTW, don't ask me how I knew what you were asking.

 

[ShadySands]

I hate it too but a few games did do it a little better by also adding tone icons.

[injurai]

I'm fine with the cues being a gist of what the character says, but it needs to match the expected affect it has with the correct gravitas. I don't want my character taking something I want to be coy or subtle and making a blunt comment then doubling and tripling down with insults. I feel this was particularly bad in Mass Effect 2.

[Fenixp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8os2LBgSCAs

[Humanoid]

It's annoying because it's pretty much a solved problem - DXHR had a wheel but when you highlighted any of the options, the full text would be shown verbatim below the wheel. If a player wanted to ignore it, they'd be generally fine, but it was there for those who cared.

 

With that in mind, I would lean towards what Rosbjerg said above, it's not because of actual UI design concerns, but a developmental shortcut. It's a skeleton implemented without prior knowledge of the actual lines, which might not even exist in their final form at that point in development.

[Orogun01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8os2LBgSCAs

Maybe I'm unique but I really understand what a dialogue option will do, my problem is with the tone and the writing.

 

Also, what the **** did they think glassing was? Dumb****s.

[Fenixp]

Also, what the **** did they think glassing was? Dumb****s.

I'm reasonably certain that'd be a response of most people that wrote lines which then lead to something entirely unexpected by a large part of their audience. You've nailed a big part of the problem right there and then.

[Orogun01]

 

Also, what the **** did they think glassing was? Dumb****s.

I'm reasonably certain that'd be a response of most people that wrote lines which then lead to something entirely unexpected by a large part of their audience. You've nailed a big part of the problem right there and then.

 

It had brackets, how could they think that it was dialogue and not an action. They're dumb****s.

[Fenixp]

It had brackets, how could they think that it was dialogue and not an action. They're dumb****s.

'course it was an action, that's not really the issue here. 'Action' doesn't necessarily imply 'Gutting people'. The term 'Glass him' is the issue. I am certainly glad that you, good sir, are familiar with all world's languages and phrases but I, lowly dumbbutt, have never heard the term before playing The Wolf Among Us. Something like 'Attack him' or, better yet, a brief way to describe what's about to happen upon clicking the choice would be much preferrable (or even graphical representation - Dragon Age 2 at least had the right idea with putting the little icons next to dialogue options, regardless of how good the game actually ended up being.) I mean, that's the whole point of this whole discussion, eh? Edited September 2, 2018 by Fenixp

[Orogun01]

 

It had brackets, how could they think that it was dialogue and not an action. They're dumb****s.

'course it was an action, that's not really the issue here. 'Action' doesn't necessarily imply 'Gutting people'. The term 'Glass him' is the issue. I am certainly glad that you, good sir, are familiar with all world's languages and phrases but I, lowly dumbbutt, have never heard the term before playing The Wolf Among Us. Something like 'Attack him' or, better yet, a brief way to describe what's about to happen upon clicking the choice would be much preferrable (or even graphical representation - Dragon Age 2 at least had the right idea with putting the little icons next to dialogue options, regardless of how good the game actually ended up being.) I mean, that's the whole point of this whole discussion, eh?

 

Is English your second language? If so, I could understand how you might be confused.

[SonicMage117]

Example:

 

NPC: "Will you do this thing for me?"

 

Dialogue option 1: "Sure."

Dialogue option 2: I'm not sure if I can trust you.

 

Voiced option 1: "Sure."

Voiced option 2: "Last time you escaped and left me alone. What can you say to make me to trust you again?"

 

 

Right? This should be clear enough for everyone?

I actually prefer it like this...

 

I don't think gamers realize that (in most cases) this isn't a design choice but an actor making it their own. It brings life to the game/movie when the actor makes it their own. Also, I like that it's different because ot gives two different viewpoints in dialogue vs being robotic/dull. It shows just how development has evolved since they started development of the game.

[the_dog_days]

 

Example:

 

NPC: "Will you do this thing for me?"

 

Dialogue option 1: "Sure."

Dialogue option 2: I'm not sure if I can trust you.

 

Voiced option 1: "Sure."

Voiced option 2: "Last time you escaped and left me alone. What can you say to make me to trust you again?"

 

 

Right? This should be clear enough for everyone?

I actually prefer it like this...

 

I don't think gamers realize that (in most cases) this isn't a design choice but an actor making it their own. It brings life to the game/movie when the actor makes it their own. Also, I like that it's different because ot gives two different viewpoints in dialogue vs being robotic/dull. It shows just how development has evolved since they started development of the game.

 

 

Even if this were true, it would take a minim amount of effort to go back and correct the written dialog so they match.

[SonicMage117]

Even if this were true, it would take a minim amount of effort to go back and correct the written dialog so they match.

Before or after all corresponding languages have been introduced? Since there are different teams which handle this (it's never the same team), it's probably more effort and resources than we tend to think.

[the_dog_days]

 

Even if this were true, it would take a minim amount of effort to go back and correct the written dialog so they match.

Before or after all corresponding languages have been introduced? Since there are different teams which handle this (it's never the same team), it's probably more effort and resources than we tend to think.

 

 

You don't need the narrative team to do it. Assuming what you said is correct and most of the time the differences are alibiing, which I doubt, you could hire temps to do nothing but listen to the audio and change the text to match it. Its not skilled work either so you wouldn't be paying them a lot anyway.

[Vitalis]

 

 

 

Also, what the **** did they think glassing was? Dumb****s.

I'm reasonably certain that'd be a response of most people that wrote lines which then lead to something entirely unexpected by a large part of their audience. You've nailed a big part of the problem right there and then.

It had brackets, how could they think that it was dialogue and not an action. They're dumb****s.

They thought it was an action. They thought it meant buy him another glass.

Then it would have said something close to the lines of buying him another glass. There was nothing in the shortened description that would have indicated doing that.

[Fenixp]

Then it would have said something close to the lines of buying him another glass. There was nothing in the shortened description that would have indicated doing that.

You guys do realize that the whole point of this discussion is that the less information you give in a dialogue choice, the more difficult it is to correctly guess what was the writer's intent, right? Just write "Glass him" in google search to see why it's a valid example. Showing us how smart you are by telling us that you understand the intent just serves to reinforce the point.

[SonicMage117]

I don't think "Glass him" takes much intelligence to understand, even for someone who's secondary language is English or has poor English, the less wording the better. My opinion is that it is just nitpicking, I mean I can understand how it can annoy people but it's not needed, it's being made a bigger deal than what it's worth - especially since there are far more important things in rpg's which need to be fixed/worked on.

 

Edited for spelling issues (Damn these lagging smartphones).

Edited September 12, 2018 by SonicMage117

[Vitalis]

 

Then it would have said something close to the lines of buying him another glass. There was nothing in the shortened description that would have indicated doing that.

You guys do realize that the whole point of this discussion is that the less information you give in a dialogue choice, the more difficult it is to correctly guess what was the writer's intent, right? Just write "Glass him" in google search to see why it's a valid example. Showing us how smart you are by telling us that you understand the intent just serves to reinforce the point.

Second Google result after urban dictionary, which has the same thing:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glassing