Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

My gripe with dialogue wheels


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#1
kirottu

kirottu

    Luchador Ninja

  • Members
  • 4585 posts
  • Location:Finland
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Why don't dialogue wheels accurately reflect what the character is going to say when the voiced response is short enough to fit in the dialogue wheel? Is this because someone thought it would be confusing to have to separate between two different types of responses, paraphrased and non-paraphrased?

 

I don't think two is too much for anyone if developers would make it clear. It is just two after all.

 

Firstly lets put short responses in quotation marks. If I pick "Yes" option in dialogue wheel, my character actually says "Yes" and not "Sure". Secondly short responses should always be in the same color as the subtitles, so we could put the longer, paraphrased responses in different color. Also paraphrased options wouldn't be in quotation marks, because they aren't direct quotations.

 

Example:

 

NPC: "Will you do this thing for me?"

 

Dialogue option 1: "Sure."

Dialogue option 2: I'm not sure if I can trust you.

 

Voiced option 1: "Sure."

Voiced option 2: "Last time you escaped and left me alone. What can you say to make me to trust you again?"

 

 

Right? This should be clear enough for everyone? 


Edited by kirottu, 30 August 2018 - 11:14 PM.

  • Rosbjerg and ShadySands like this

#2
Rosbjerg

Rosbjerg

    Global Moderator

  • Global Moderators
  • 4999 posts
  • Location:The State, in which something is rotten

I imagine It's a product of two design departments not really working together, like one writing the short prose first and a writing department fleshing it out later.. or a lack of experience or unrealistic time constraints on the writers part, in general.

 

But yeah, it makes me quit a game. I liked L.A Noir's gameplay well enough, but every single dialouge pissed me off, to the point I couldn't enjoy the game.



#3
Gfted1

Gfted1

    Forum Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 5743 posts
  • Location:Chicago, IL
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

I think the only game Ive played with a dialog wheel is SWTOR. In that case I would just pick whichever response provided me Darkside points and I didn't even really pay attention to the text options.



#4
Lexx

Lexx

    Adventurer of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 3761 posts
  • Location:Germany
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

It is assumed folks don't like to read long text, so everything is shortened to the bare minimum. Not the actual dialog, though... because you can listen to it after and don't need to read it.

 

It's pretty funny in L.A. Noir, imo, when you chose a calm sounding dialog option and your character yells it in the NPCs face. :D



#5
HoonDing

HoonDing

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 9233 posts
  • Location:Absurdistan

used to be i just clicked through dialogue and read journal afterwards

 

now i just follow quest compass


  • Azdeus likes this

#6
LittleAmadillo0

LittleAmadillo0

    (2) Evoker

  • Members
  • 58 posts

The main problem with dialogue wheels is that there is a repetition that is going on. After playing a game with dialogue wheel you can pretty much spot what kind of choice is presented without even analyzing the contents of what you are about to say.


  • marelooke and Hawke64 like this

#7
GhostofAnakin

GhostofAnakin

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 11142 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

Yeah, it's incredibly annoying when the response options you're shown don't accurately reflect what the character ends up saying.

 

Option shown: "I'm unsure I can trust you."

 

Dialogue spoken after choosing this: "You're an untrustworthy lout who deserves his entire race killed in an instant!  Give me one reason why I shouldn't end your bloodline right now, heathen?"

 

Uh, what?  I went from assuming my character was just going to be skeptical of him to basically laying down an insulting challenge to his entire species?!  And I'm supposed to be on a diplomatic mission!


  • ShadySands likes this

#8
Orogun01

Orogun01

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3751 posts
  • Location:somewhere over the rainbow
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Why don't dialogue wheels accurately reflect what the character is going to say when the voiced response is short enough to fit in the dialogue wheel? Is this because someone thought it would be confusing to have to separate between two different types of responses, paraphrased and non-paraphrased?

 

I don't think two is too much for anyone if developers would make it clear. It is just two after all.

 

Firstly lets put short responses in quotation marks. If I pick "Yes" option in dialogue wheel, my character actually says "Yes" and not "Sure". Secondly short responses should always be in the same color as the subtitles, so we could put the longer, paraphrased responses in different color. Also paraphrased options wouldn't be in quotation marks, because they aren't direct quotations.

 

Example:

 

NPC: "Will you do this thing for me?"

 

Dialogue option 1: "Sure."

Dialogue option 2: I'm not sure if I can trust you.

 

Voiced option 1: "Sure."

Voiced option 2: "Last time you escaped and left me alone. What can you say to make me to trust you again?"

 

 

Right? This should be clear enough for everyone? 

Its cause people think that people don't like reading and they will tell to shorten the descriptions.

I didn't read your post BTW, don't ask me how I knew what you were asking.
 



#9
ShadySands

ShadySands

    The Guy on the Couch of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 3048 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
I hate it too but a few games did do it a little better by also adding tone icons.
  • Hawke64 likes this

#10
injurai

injurai

    (12) Mage

  • Members
  • 1992 posts
  • Location:Not the oceans
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

I'm fine with the cues being a gist of what the character says, but it needs to match the expected affect it has with the correct gravitas. I don't want my character taking something I want to be coy or subtle and making a blunt comment then doubling and tripling down with insults. I feel this was particularly bad in Mass Effect 2.



#11
Fenixp

Fenixp

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2114 posts
  • Steam:Fenixp
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!


  • Lexx, InsaneCommander and LittleAmadillo0 like this

#12
Humanoid

Humanoid

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3829 posts

It's annoying because it's pretty much a solved problem - DXHR had a wheel but when you highlighted any of the options, the full text would be shown verbatim below the wheel. If a player wanted to ignore it, they'd be generally fine, but it was there for those who cared.

 

With that in mind, I would lean towards what Rosbjerg said above, it's not because of actual UI design concerns, but a developmental shortcut. It's a skeleton implemented without prior knowledge of the actual lines, which might not even exist in their final form at that point in development.


  • Hawke64 likes this

#13
Orogun01

Orogun01

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3751 posts
  • Location:somewhere over the rainbow
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Maybe I'm unique but I really understand what a dialogue option will do, my problem is with the tone and the writing.

Also, what the **** did they think glassing was? Dumb****s.



#14
Fenixp

Fenixp

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2114 posts
  • Steam:Fenixp
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Also, what the **** did they think glassing was? Dumb****s.

I'm reasonably certain that'd be a response of most people that wrote lines which then lead to something entirely unexpected by a large part of their audience. You've nailed a big part of the problem right there and then.

#15
Orogun01

Orogun01

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3751 posts
  • Location:somewhere over the rainbow
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

Also, what the **** did they think glassing was? Dumb****s.

I'm reasonably certain that'd be a response of most people that wrote lines which then lead to something entirely unexpected by a large part of their audience. You've nailed a big part of the problem right there and then.

 

It had brackets, how could they think that it was dialogue and not an action. They're dumb****s.



#16
Fenixp

Fenixp

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2114 posts
  • Steam:Fenixp
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

It had brackets, how could they think that it was dialogue and not an action. They're dumb****s.

'course it was an action, that's not really the issue here. 'Action' doesn't necessarily imply 'Gutting people'. The term 'Glass him' is the issue. I am certainly glad that you, good sir, are familiar with all world's languages and phrases but I, lowly dumbbutt, have never heard the term before playing The Wolf Among Us. Something like 'Attack him' or, better yet, a brief way to describe what's about to happen upon clicking the choice would be much preferrable (or even graphical representation - Dragon Age 2 at least had the right idea with putting the little icons next to dialogue options, regardless of how good the game actually ended up being.) I mean, that's the whole point of this whole discussion, eh?

Edited by Fenixp, 02 September 2018 - 06:49 AM.


#17
Orogun01

Orogun01

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3751 posts
  • Location:somewhere over the rainbow
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

It had brackets, how could they think that it was dialogue and not an action. They're dumb****s.

'course it was an action, that's not really the issue here. 'Action' doesn't necessarily imply 'Gutting people'. The term 'Glass him' is the issue. I am certainly glad that you, good sir, are familiar with all world's languages and phrases but I, lowly dumbbutt, have never heard the term before playing The Wolf Among Us. Something like 'Attack him' or, better yet, a brief way to describe what's about to happen upon clicking the choice would be much preferrable (or even graphical representation - Dragon Age 2 at least had the right idea with putting the little icons next to dialogue options, regardless of how good the game actually ended up being.) I mean, that's the whole point of this whole discussion, eh?

 

Is English your second language? If so, I could understand how you might be confused.



#18
SonicMage117

SonicMage117

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 2355 posts
  • Location:Texas, United States
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Example:

NPC: "Will you do this thing for me?"

Dialogue option 1: "Sure."
Dialogue option 2: I'm not sure if I can trust you.

Voiced option 1: "Sure."
Voiced option 2: "Last time you escaped and left me alone. What can you say to make me to trust you again?"


Right? This should be clear enough for everyone?


I actually prefer it like this...

I don't think gamers realize that (in most cases) this isn't a design choice but an actor making it their own. It brings life to the game/movie when the actor makes it their own. Also, I like that it's different because ot gives two different viewpoints in dialogue vs being robotic/dull. It shows just how development has evolved since they started development of the game.

#19
the_dog_days

the_dog_days

    (8) Warlock

  • Members
  • 1028 posts
  • Location:Over yonder.
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer

 

Example:

NPC: "Will you do this thing for me?"

Dialogue option 1: "Sure."
Dialogue option 2: I'm not sure if I can trust you.

Voiced option 1: "Sure."
Voiced option 2: "Last time you escaped and left me alone. What can you say to make me to trust you again?"


Right? This should be clear enough for everyone?


I actually prefer it like this...

I don't think gamers realize that (in most cases) this isn't a design choice but an actor making it their own. It brings life to the game/movie when the actor makes it their own. Also, I like that it's different because ot gives two different viewpoints in dialogue vs being robotic/dull. It shows just how development has evolved since they started development of the game.

 

 

Even if this were true, it would take a minim amount of effort to go back and correct the written dialog so they match.



#20
Sharp_one

Sharp_one

    (6) Magician

  • Members
  • 756 posts
  • Location:Poland

 

 

Also, what the **** did they think glassing was? Dumb****s.

I'm reasonably certain that'd be a response of most people that wrote lines which then lead to something entirely unexpected by a large part of their audience. You've nailed a big part of the problem right there and then.

 

It had brackets, how could they think that it was dialogue and not an action. They're dumb****s.

 

 

They thought it was an action. They thought it meant buy him another glass. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users