Pathfinder Kingmaker is bigger then Deadfire

[xzar_monty]

I have not met Jubilost, so I cannot comment on that specifically, but absolutely everything about the writing in Kingmaker is several notches below Deadfire. It may be intentional, and I have no problem with it at all, but the differences between these two titles are so obvious and so great that there's really no comparison. The quality and variety of language used, the dialogue options, the way the story is developed and everything pertaining to stuff like this is way, way more sophisticated in Deadfire.

 

Kingmaker is all trope and cliche, it's as hackneyed as can be, whereas in Deadfire there is at least the attempt to do something a bit ambitious. And again: so far I like both titles, there seems to be nothing wrong with either, but if someone claims the writing in Kingmaker is on par with Deadfire, I seriously doubt that person's judgement.

 

If the quality of writing in Deadfire was on the level of "Hello, my name is John, who are you?", then in comparison to that, Kingmaker would operate on a "Me Tarzan. You Jane?" level.

[Fenixp]

I'd go as far as to say that both PoE games had significantly better quality of writing than both Baldur's Gate games. However, I'd also dare to say that many people playing fantasy games often won't really look for particularly great writing but instead for a chance to experience their Standard Fantasy World which'll be reactive and able to accommodate whichever character they dreamed up lately, so tropy would actually be precisely what some'll be looking for.

[xzar_monty]

I think you're absolutely right in everything you say.

 

As for your last point: the fact that some people were very unhappy about Deadfire's aquatic setting and lack of gigantic dungeons shows that plenty of fantasy gamers are incredibly conservative. Which is kind of strange: by definition, fantasy should be able to encompass just about anything, but apparently only a very narrow selection of stuff is acceptable for some.

[bringingyouthefuture]

 

 

I don't know partly just joshing - I like Pathfinder, but lets be honest the character writing isn't even half as colorful as POE1 or 2.

Bull.

 

Have you met Jubilost? :D Please, if this guy was in Deadfire, Eder would at least have some competition.

 

 

I do like Pathfinder a lot!!  Harim is my favorite so far, plus his quest was pretty cool ... but Serafan did refer her his fluffy blue balls in one conversation ... anyway I am curious where Pathfinder leads its got a lot of cool things in it.  We should revive the posts on their forum and get them to allow for taking 10 and taking 20 - am so sick of reloading on a 1 roll to open a chest with minor difficulty where I should be able to take 10 or take 20 ....

Edited December 4, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture

[Manveru123]

I think you're absolutely right in everything you say.

 

As for your last point: the fact that some people were very unhappy about Deadfire's aquatic setting and lack of gigantic dungeons shows that plenty of fantasy gamers are incredibly conservative. Which is kind of strange: by definition, fantasy should be able to encompass just about anything, but apparently only a very narrow selection of stuff is acceptable for some.

If I wanted to RP a pirate, I'd boot up Black Flag.

[Fenixp]

If I wanted to RP a pirate, I'd boot up Black Flag.

In my eyes, this sentence translates to: "I want all fantasy RPG games to be precisely the same game with no attempts at innovation or evolution." Dunno what about you, but I for one am quite glad that nowadays, both Kingmaker and Deadfire can exist, giving us all a choice in what we want to play. It's not like Deadfire pretends it's a game in a different setting than it actually is.

 

(And no, you wouldn't play Black Flag to roleplay a pirate. You wouldn't play Black Flag to roleplay just about anything.)

Edited December 3, 2018 by Fenixp

[Raithe]

I quite liked the island settings and sea-roaming idea in PoE2. Although for some reason the big city of Neketaka seems to be a slight dragging turn off that's making me struggle to get back into the game.

 

On the pathfinder side of things, I had just arrived in Pitax shortly before the big patch update... but been juggling my time and such so I haven't returned to it yet. I need to find me some gaming time and appropriate mindset to sink back into it.

[Manveru123]

 

If I wanted to RP a pirate, I'd boot up Black Flag.

In my eyes, this sentence translates to: "I want all fantasy RPG games to be precisely the same game with no attempts at innovation or evolution." Dunno what about you, but I for one am quite glad that nowadays, both Kingmaker and Deadfire can exist, giving us all a choice in what we want to play. It's not like Deadfire pretends it's a game in a different setting than it actually is.

 

(And no, you wouldn't play Black Flag to roleplay a pirate. You wouldn't play Black Flag to roleplay just about anything.)

 

Or.. I'm just not a big fan of pirates? I don't mind change but this particular setting doesn't interest me at all.

[xzar_monty]

Well, that's fair enough then.

 

I agree that sometimes a fairly small change can have drastic consequences. I'll give a personal example: after BG2, I was very much looking forward to NWN. But when it actually came out, I found the whole 3D setting was, in my eyes, utter c**p. It just didn't interest me. The graphics looked copypasted from one scene to the next, there was no immersion whatsoever, etc. (It also didn't help that the campaign was badly written.)

 

So there it was: I thought I was a huge fan of Forgotten Realms style CRPGs, but it turned out I wasn't, just. There were other factors, too.

Edited December 4, 2018 by xzar_monty

[Epaminondas]

This game is huuuuuge. The battles are trivial on normal level, which I like. I do think that the lower difficulty does mean the player can get complacent in terms of tactics, but I still have fun. The thundervine fight took a little planning because I couldn't just steamroll it. Otherwise, there aren't any painful fights for some time now. It's hugely fun. My pathetic kingdom, after hours of playing, only produces 47 BP a week. Getting enough BP to do stuff is excruciating. The kingdom building stuff is more fun when you know how to approach it and know how the Ancient Curses work. My people are at 11th level right now and I think the game caps at 20th. The size of this game is truly exceptional, especially for a single player game. I haven't been this into a new release for years now.

 

Some specific things I really like:

 

1. The occasional roll play moments where players make choices by reading text on an illustrated background. It's a nice changeup from going into an area and clearing it.

2. The Valerie romance is great. Not really for the romance part, which is like all the rest. As someone who never engages in game romances, I actually did with Valerie because she's what every man wants... damaged goods. I had no interest until she earned her cool scar.

3. The writing is generally good and sometimes quite funny. The grammar is all over the map, but I'm forgiving and the good outweighs the bad.

4. I like the camp banter. I know some might not, but the fact that they limit it to two exchanges (or sometimes one statement in two parts if only one character speaks) is great. Gives flavor while being short and unobtrusive.

5. I love how they handle evil and good. Tristan's good is over the top, but the voice actor does a great job making him believable. Gotta love someone who's combat initiation lines are things like "I shall end this suffering" and "I'll try to make this quick." Conversely, Regongar is chaotic evil done right. They did a great job showing how chaotic evil can actually function in society. Harrim depicts a chaotic neutral character that isn't simply chaotic crazy. I'm sometimes even fond of the goblin, evil little runt that he is.

[kanisatha]

The devs have a kingdom building 'guide' of sorts heading up a thread on the Owlcat forums. It is meant for people to comment on before they incorporate it into the game in a future patch to help players with their kingdom building woes.

[InsaneCommander]

As someone who never engages in game romances, I actually did with Valerie because she's what every man wants... damaged goods.

 

Are you sure? Some might prefer Amiri. Or Jaethal.

[Chilloutman]

 

As someone who never engages in game romances, I actually did with Valerie because she's what every man wants... damaged goods.

 

Are you sure? Some might prefer Amiri. Or Jaethal.

 

 

You can romance Jaethal? Is.. Is it technically.. you know.. necrophilia?

[Epaminondas]

Might want to set her on the radiator for a while first.

[Raithe]

I will admit, that my Ranger/Inquisitor playthrough somehow ended up in the middle of the bisexual threesome with Octavia and Reg. Not quite sure how it happened, but it seemed to suit the character.

[bringingyouthefuture]

I was reading about character builds last night - is it the consensus that a Aasimar rogue build with some dips into monk / fighter / paladin have the best AC / damage ratio?

 

I was looking at Paladins which would be fun too, and I was thinking about these stats for an Angelkin Aasimar:

 

18 St

12 Dex

14 Con

13 Int

8   Wis

17 Cha

 

13 INT for combat expertise but do I gain a lot?  Or would I want to go 13 Dex for Dodge?  Or should I dump them both and just do the Power Attack line.  I am just testing the waters, sorry if people have posted about this too!!

[Epaminondas]

Aw, who cares if they've posted it? I say ask away! I guess you want int for feat choices and skills? Don't get me wrong. Others have much more experience with the game, but I don't see a tremendous amount of utility for int for a pally. On the other hand, I'm such a noob I'd wait for more learned voices.

 

 

Meanwhile, in my game, I have renewed love of Tristan. Not romantic love, but a hearty "You glorious bastard, you're even better with flaws!" However, I'm pissed that I'm currently denied his services. The thing is, I'm not too pissed off. I'm playing a good guy. For that to mean anything in the game, it requires that I take my lumps when they come my way. As an aside, I also *never* steal from villages and inns and random houses. I *do* take stuff from barbarian camps, but only after they pick and leave and say they're not coming back.

[Manveru123]

I was reading about character builds last night - is it the consensus that a Aasimar rogue build with some dips into monk / fighter / paladin have the best AC / damage ratio?

 

I was looking at Paladins which would be fun too, and I was thinking about these stats for an Angelkin Aasimar:

 

18 St

12 Dex

14 Con

13 Int

8   Wis

17 Cha

 

13 INT for combat expertise but do I gain a lot?  Or would I want to go 13 Dex for Dodge?  Or should I dump them both and just do the Power Attack line.  I am just testing the waters, sorry if people have posted about this too!!

Not even close lol. Where did you get that idea :D

 

You only dip in Monk and Pally for saves and AC, there is no point to 17 CHA. You build this character DEX, not STR. You only need enough Knife Master Rogue levels for Finesse feats (4 IIRC), then Vivisectionist gives you more damage. Also, Halfling is the best race for this.

 

Also I hate this build because it restricts you to Lawful Good :/

Edited December 6, 2018 by Manveru123

[bringingyouthefuture]

Sorry should have been more clear it is actually two questions, or maybe I am not understanding your answer.  I am also looking for builds that let you play on harder difficulty and up, that aren't such a slug fest The only post I ever found of someone kicking butt on hard was with a dual wielding knife fighter, with some dips into monk / fighter / and it mentioned maybe paladin for some +2 saves.  The high charisma gives it the added AC .... just wondering if that build gives you the highest damage to AC ratio for mopping up.  I don't really play casters often, or ranged players, prefer melee characters.  I read this knife wielder was a popular Icewind Dale 2 build.

 

I am really not looking for standard PnP builds, I am more looking for builds that are viable to get through the early levels on Hard and the Insane difficulty with the bloated enemy stats. The above knife wielder was separate from my thoughts just to make a Paladin.  I want to just play with the NPCs as companions, and getting some synergy with Valerie's Tower Shield early on to allow for better tanking hence the somewhat unorthodox choice of Shield Wall and taking outflank to somewhat neutralize fighting defensively, but will on easier fights switch to a two-hander for damage.  I literally know little about Pathfinder - but I am assuming Shield Wall will stack with Fighting Defensively, etc.

 

18 str

12 dex

14 con

12 int

9 wis

17 cha

 

And I was thinking doing a 17 levels in Paladin and 3 level in Figher (or if the level cap is around 18 right now with full party 16 Paladin / 2 Fighter):

 

1: Paladin - Power Strike

2: Paladin

3: Fighter - Shield Wall / Extra Lay On Hands

4: Fighter - Outflank

5: Paladin - Weapon Focus

6: Paladin 

7: Paladin - Couragan Smash

8: Paladin

9: Paladin - Dazzling Display

10 Paladin

11: Paladin - Wings

12: Paladin

13: Paladin - Critical Focus

14: Paladin

15: Paladin - Blinding Critical

16: Paladin

17: Paladin - Persuasion (which I added late and will probably move up

18: Paladin

19:  Fighter- (open to suggestions) maybe armor focus for added AC

20: Paladin- (open to suggestions) maybe shield focus for added AC

 

I feel like my choices maybe out of order and maybe I am missing some good abilities to make this a lot more fun!  Also any other cool builds people are mangling the game with?  Or any good threads to read?  I keep searching but not finding much.

 

 

EDIT:  basically this is a call for ... HELP!!!!!

Edited December 6, 2018 by bringingyouthefuture

[ShadySands]

Dear Pathfinders,

 

we have an important update for you today: we have made the decision to move the release date of “The Wildcards” DLC to next week. The last two months have taught us a good lesson – it is always better to take some extra time to make sure everything is ready, and we feel like we should not rush our first major DLC. To ensure we deliver the experience and quality you deserve, we will dedicate additional time and effort to “The Wildcards”. We hope you can understand our decision - it was not one that was made easily, however, we believe it was the right one.

 

Thank you for bearing with us, and thank you for your patience!

[Azdeus]

Goddammit. Was looking forward to that now that I have a completely free weekend.

[Manveru123]

Sorry should have been more clear it is actually two questions, or maybe I am not understanding your answer.  I am also looking for builds that let you play on harder difficulty and up, that aren't such a slug fest The only post I ever found of someone kicking butt on hard was with a dual wielding knife fighter, with some dips into monk / fighter / and it mentioned maybe paladin for some +2 saves.  The high charisma gives it the added AC .... just wondering if that build gives you the highest damage to AC ratio for mopping up.  I don't really play casters often, or ranged players, prefer melee characters.  I read this knife wielder was a popular Icewind Dale 2 build.

 

I am really not looking for standard PnP builds, I am more looking for builds that are viable to get through the early levels on Hard and the Insane difficulty with the bloated enemy stats. The above knife wielder was separate from my thoughts just to make a Paladin.  I want to just play with the NPCs as companions, and getting some synergy with Valerie's Tower Shield early on to allow for better tanking hence the somewhat unorthodox choice of Shield Wall and taking outflank to somewhat neutralize fighting defensively, but will on easier fights switch to a two-hander for damage.  I literally know little about Pathfinder - but I am assuming Shield Wall will stack with Fighting Defensively, etc.

 

18 str

12 dex

14 con

12 int

9 wis

17 cha

 

And I was thinking doing a 17 levels in Paladin and 3 level in Figher (or if the level cap is around 18 right now with full party 16 Paladin / 2 Fighter):

 

1: Paladin - Power Strike

2: Paladin

3: Fighter - Shield Wall / Extra Lay On Hands

4: Fighter - Outflank

5: Paladin - Weapon Focus

6: Paladin 

7: Paladin - Couragan Smash

8: Paladin

9: Paladin - Dazzling Display

10 Paladin

11: Paladin - Wings

12: Paladin

13: Paladin - Critical Focus

14: Paladin

15: Paladin - Blinding Critical

16: Paladin

17: Paladin - Persuasion (which I added late and will probably move up

18: Paladin

19:  Fighter- (open to suggestions) maybe armor focus for added AC

20: Paladin- (open to suggestions) maybe shield focus for added AC

 

I feel like my choices maybe out of order and maybe I am missing some good abilities to make this a lot more fun!  Also any other cool builds people are mangling the game with?  Or any good threads to read?  I keep searching but not finding much.

 

 

EDIT:  basically this is a call for ... HELP!!!!!

Oh.. ohh. Now I get it lol. Okay.

 

Basically just use this.

[bringingyouthefuture]

Yeah Hospital Paladin looks cool, thanks : ) anyone else with some suggestions?

?

[Chilloutman]

obligatory few levels of thug if you going for high charisma char

[Epaminondas]

So I came to a fork in the road. One was to pursue a traitor and the other was to follow an idiot. The traitor left me wondering what happened. The idiot just pissed me off. Of course, the idiot pisses me off every time she speaks, but I guess at least she's in character. I went through this whole thing to check out the traitor and then went up to the idiot. The quest log tells me that I need to hurry, but there's no timer. When I get there, I'm getting grief for getting there too late. So, I reload from before I go to the traitor and instead head to the idiot. There was one very big difference in the idiot's outcome when I went there first. I'm currently doing the traitor's path next and *so far* everything seems to be the same. I hope I don't get screwed out of his services because I need him as advisor. I'll have to redo it if I can't get him back.

 

Also, I think it was Manveru who said I should make Octavia an arcane trickster. I don't see a huge difference in battles so far, but she's way more generally useful as an arcane trickster. Thought I would give that a shout out.