Two-handed (melee): Convince me

[ibanix]

Based on my admittedly not complete playthrough, I'm having a lot of trouble finding a reason to use two-handed weapons:

 

* Single-handed has the big accuracy increase;

* Shields mean abilities/buffs from shields are available;

* Dual-wield has the huge in-built speed bonus (-30%), which is even stronger if you take the -15% ability, and then you get the bonuses from two items.

 

The only thing I see going for two-handed builds is that two handed weapons have marginally better damage and penetration, and this doesn't seem to offset the other weaknesses. You can make up for pen with potions. The best 2h weapon I have has a pen of 10, and other items already have 9-10.

 

Is there some sort of huge item or class bonus that makes 2h weapons shine?

 

 

[dunehunter]

Who said 2h weapons has better penetration? Actually 2h sword has the worst penetration in this game because 1. lowest pen due to double type, 2. no +pen modal.

[ibanix]

Who said 2h weapons has better penetration? Actually 2h sword has the worst penetration in this game because 1. lowest pen due to double type, 2. no +pen modal.

 

As base items. 

[Sidushi]

I noticed that as well, the 2h are slower, lower penetration, damage is not even higher thus no real benefits from using one. They should buff it givin them more penetration at least +2 more and damage +2 in a roll.

[Silvaren]

I played bleak walker/assassin and assassin's stealth dmg, acc, pen bonuses affect only first weapon even with full atttack abilities so I was running with estock most of the time at least for initial strike from stealth.

[Rafael Braga]

2 handed is the "advanced" weapon type now.

When youre metagaming, for a solo play for example, you can as soon as you live Maje Island get a series of INCREDIBLE 2 handed weapon (one is a soulbound with incredible easy upgrade requeriments, and one of them is REALLY cool, the other bein the sword from caed nua you can reforge in the main island as soon as you arrive for just 3k gold and is the best weapon i seen in the game so far, you can steam roll the game with either weapon solo).

There is a very good helmet for 2 handers on crookspurs island that make them almost as fast as dual wielders (specially since both weapons above have some sort of speed bonus).


My first try at PotD solo, probably will be a Crusader 2 Hander using the caed nua blade.

I dont find much insentive to use 1 handed weapon with nothing to be sincere. The accuracy bonus is overshadowed by many other bonuses in the game.
 

[ibanix]

2 handed is the "advanced" weapon type now.

 

When youre metagaming, for a solo play for example, you can as soon as you live Maje Island get a series of INCREDIBLE 2 handed weapon (one is a soulbound with incredible easy upgrade requeriments, and one of them is REALLY cool, the other bein the sword from caed nua you can reforge in the main island as soon as you arrive for just 3k gold and is the best weapon i seen in the game so far, you can steam roll the game with either weapon solo).

 

There is a very good helmet for 2 handers on crookspurs island that make them almost as fast as dual wielders (specially since both weapons above have some sort of speed bonus).

 

 

I really hope that two handers don't end up as the default bad choice. 2hers in POE1 made for decent builds.

[rheingold]

2 handed is the "advanced" weapon type now.

 

When youre metagaming, for a solo play for example, you can as soon as you live Maje Island get a series of INCREDIBLE 2 handed weapon (one is a soulbound with incredible easy upgrade requeriments, and one of them is REALLY cool, the other bein the sword from caed nua you can reforge in the main island as soon as you arrive for just 3k gold and is the best weapon i seen in the game so far, you can steam roll the game with either weapon solo).

 

There is a very good helmet for 2 handers on crookspurs island that make them almost as fast as dual wielders (specially since both weapons above have some sort of speed bonus).

 

 

My first try at PotD solo, probably will be a Crusader 2 Hander using the caed nua blade.

 

I dont find much insentive to use 1 handed weapon with nothing to be sincere. The accuracy bonus is overshadowed by many other bonuses in the game.

 

Well the blade from Caed Nua is one handed? There is an excellent Poll Axe in Netekha, available fairly early - Dereo's quest.

Where is the soul bound 2 handed weapon, I haven't found it

[George_Truman]

Yeah I think the reason 2handers are good is because there are really strong uniques. Also he means the Whispers of the Endless paths that you get by combining the two broken swords.

[rheingold]

Uh Ok, thanks, missed that.

[Sifjar]

There is a poleaxe. Don’t remember where I got it

[dunehunter]

 

Who said 2h weapons has better penetration? Actually 2h sword has the worst penetration in this game because 1. lowest pen due to double type, 2. no +pen modal.

 

As base items. 

 

 

Sorry i don't get what u mean.

[Farsha]

There is a poleaxe. Don’t remember where I got it

 Souldbound poleaxe is on south-east island (there is pernament strom over it, you need to pass it, but you can get it really early)

It does slash/shock dmg as weapon types. Shock is strongest elemental dmg in the game for some weird reason. (it was corrode in first POE)

 

But Two-handers are undewhelming, they are far too slow, so combat feels lot less active with them, as they'll use far less abilites than duel-wilders. That is the biggest issue with them. They need to lower recover on them to make them fun to use.

It doesn;t make sense anyways Estocs are fast wepons to use. Two-haded swords like Claymores weight only 2.5kg, one handed arming sword is 1.5kg. Using 2 hands Claymore would be actually just as fast in a hands of proficient fencer.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Farsha

[flamesium]

Best use for 2H I’ve found so far is using the Morning Start modal to lower Fortitude. Makes them dead easy for a Barbarian with Brute Force to hit / crit against.

 

I think 2Hers need bonus damage on Full Attacks. Whatever is necessary to get them comparable to a DW full attack.

[dejarik]

Whispers of the Endless Paths + Flames of Devotion = full FoD attack on all enemies in the cone, including two full FoD attacks on the primary target. That’s the allure for two-handers for me, that they can offset the slow attack speed by attacking more than one enemy at the same time. It requires some microing, but I like that.

[Raven Darkholme]

Whispers of the Endless Paths + Flames of Devotion = full FoD attack on all enemies in the cone, including two full FoD attacks on the primary target. That’s the allure for two-handers for me, that they can offset the slow attack speed by attacking more than one enemy at the same time. It requires some microing, but I like that.

Full attacks are the reason dual wielding is much better than 2h.

Add the ridicolous power of cleaving stance at PL 2 to any early full attack class like pala or rogue and you will do a LOT less damage with 2h compared to dw.

[ibanix]

I think the easiest fix for 2H might be to just give all of them +3 pen vs. their 1H counterparts. Since pen is essentially mitigating armor, they'd be good against heavily armored targets, or just cause increased damage on lesserer armored targets. It would also be available from the beginning of the game.

[Elebhra]

Two Handed weapons don't need a fix.

 

For example Great Sword to Sword - GS has 30% more BASE DAMAGE, while using Swords as one-handed gives you 12 accuracy. Assuming best circumstances (accuracy=target's deflection, crits result in overpenetration, no other damage bonuses) +12 accuracy gives you roughly 28%* average damage increase. Dual wielded swords have as I recall 30% more action speed. Action speed increase = damage increase more or less.

 

It is almost pedantically balanced.

 

What needs fix is mob stance and charge being full attacks.

 

*math might be tiny bit off

[Thormind]

Based on my admittedly not complete playthrough, I'm having a lot of trouble finding a reason to use two-handed weapons:

 

* Single-handed has the big accuracy increase;

* Shields mean abilities/buffs from shields are available;

* Dual-wield has the huge in-built speed bonus (-30%), which is even stronger if you take the -15% ability, and then you get the bonuses from two items.

 

The only thing I see going for two-handed builds is that two handed weapons have marginally better damage and penetration, and this doesn't seem to offset the other weaknesses. You can make up for pen with potions. The best 2h weapon I have has a pen of 10, and other items already have 9-10.

 

Is there some sort of huge item or class bonus that makes 2h weapons shine?

 

Because some 2h weapons have a nice look or for rp reasons? The game is not that hard that you are forced to use the absolute best possible items. Ive put a big 2H sword on Serafen (pure Barbarian) and he usually use the best 2H with reach i can find as a back up for when my tank is door stacking. Maybe he could do better with dual wield but hes still doing well. And thats on POTD.

[Keldaur]

Based on my admittedly not complete playthrough, I'm having a lot of trouble finding a reason to use two-handed weapons:

 

* Single-handed has the big accuracy increase;

* Shields mean abilities/buffs from shields are available;

* Dual-wield has the huge in-built speed bonus (-30%), which is even stronger if you take the -15% ability, and then you get the bonuses from two items.

 

The only thing I see going for two-handed builds is that two handed weapons have marginally better damage and penetration, and this doesn't seem to offset the other weaknesses. You can make up for pen with potions. The best 2h weapon I have has a pen of 10, and other items already have 9-10.

 

Is there some sort of huge item or class bonus that makes 2h weapons shine?

Any class that doesn't have full attacks are decent with two handed.

My biggest problem with two handeds is the delay to be honest, it's not only that they are subpar dps with full attacks, it's that they are also terrible to use panic buttons when you need them.

[Voltron]

2h is only good if you take the AOE one (Endless Path or Phagai poleaxe) and stack it with AOE subclasses or subclasses procing effects or rehitting enemies on hits. So Fighter with Cleave Stance, Monk with Swift Flurry + Heartbeat Drumming, Berserker with Carnage. If you mix any of those (especially Fighter with Monk) 2h with AOE profile becomes a meat grinders vs group of enemies.

 

But that is not because of 2h being good, but because of Swift Flurry, Cleave and Heartbeat Drumming being broken. Without those- all 2h are meh.

 

Two weapons are better right now because:

1. Higher Pen

2. Higher Speed with Two Weapon Style

3. Full Attacks deal DOUBLE dmg : FoD, Charge, Barbarian Blow etc. 

4. Higher ACC

5. Stacking 2 enchantments to create superb combos like Scordeo Sabre + Fin's, Magran Favor + Sun and Moon/Sungrazer, Unique Parayzing Hatcher + Paralyzing Sabre for perma paralyzing etc etc. 

6. Access to Sabres which are strongest melee weapons now due to high pen, dmg,  lot of uniques, low attack speed on some (2.2 sec).

7. A lot of uniques when you go dual wield: Sabres and Swords have a lot of good options, same daggers and silletos, 2 unique rapiers, 4 unique Flails etc. 2h weapons have limited selection of good ones.

 

Overall I think Obsidian droped balls on this one and 2h are just weak.

 

2h weapons vs 1h should have imo:

 

1. Higher Penetration

2. Higher Alpha damage but lower recovery and speed

3. Small Cone damage profile (by default what Endless Path have on standard attack)so you can hit 2, max 3 targets with one swing.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Voltron

[giftmefood]

I'm surprised no one has mention the super OP Nemnok staff yet. That's the only reason I would go two handed right now

[dudex]

there are a couple of incredibly powerful 2handers.

 

that is the only reason why u should u use them over other styles

 

if u are just looking at plain weapons then sure there is no reason to use it.

[Enoch]

The fix I expect is weakening Full Attack for dual-wielders.  E.g., make it [Primary weapon damage] + [0.5*(Secondary weapon damage)]. 

[dunehunter]

Players just talk about how OP one or two weapon is here, but it's more fair to just compare plain unenchanted weapons. In that case 2h weapons are inferior to dual wielding for sure.