Gromnir

for funsies, we did another rogue run with a level 9 party. no changes to basic character, attributes and talents from our previous rogue save for fact we almost exclusive used clubs even though sabres woulda' been getting more outta the devastating blow hits... and second-tier options for finishing blow is, well, devastating. character were female, but am not thinking such were a significant change from a gameplay pov. 'course as a level 9 character, we had access to additional talents such as the aforementioned devastating blow and deep wounds. have said it before, but scaling is not working as advertised. a level 9 party is much stronger than a level 6 or 7, even when scaling option is enabled. am thinking folks could learn much by actual bothering to play a beta 4 rogue. HA! Good Fun!

What major differences do you see that will make the rogue better then the first game ? You didn’t like them in the first game at all. Why have you changed your tune? interrupts would be a huge factor one assumes. the interrupt scheme has been complete revamped in deadfire after all. even with quicker casting times *le sigh* a rogue with two quick weapons may effective stunlock a caster, and most other foes. as far as we can tell, all rogue offensive abilities now interrupt, so choose the 1 guile cheap stuff and use with a quick weapon build for interrupting supremacy. keep in mind one may interrupt melee actions as well, so the ability to interrupt frequent is adding to survivability o' the rogue in combat as well. and it sounds as if you are basing your criticism on poe gameplay and assuming the deadfire rogue plays the same. so we return to our previous question: "am genuine wondering how many rogue pundits bothered to play a rogue in beta 4?" yes, compared to a handful o' optimized and op multiclass combos, a vanilla role-play rogue as we built will be lackluster, but compare to other op multiclass builds is stoopid-- honest. compare to game challenges. play the game and then tell us you actual struggled with beta 4 challenges on veteran difficulty. a broken op multiclass with a similarly normalized party as Gromnir used will have less impact than you imagine as such replacement in our party will simple result in combats ending a second or two sooner. HA! Good Fun!

keep in mind we didn't level-up our party. started at sixth and ended at eight, but reached eight only at the end. if folks enable scaling and level their characters to nine, then foes will similar be level'd with more health. have seen more than a few folks doing so. *shrug* regardless, is only so much damage one can do as, y'know, stuff dies after doing enough damage to kill foes. HA! Good Fun!

this were already addressed. our party were companion analogs and the rogue outclassed 'em all significant. converse, have personal played every votary, templar and contemplative combo, and particular with the return of might, many o' these combos is excessive strong. the rogue were on par with more than a few such. not the best, but not the worst. have played most ascetic combos as well. single class paladins is clear win even w/o multiclassing. etc. am not certain what comparisons you want, 'cause the most important comparison is how the rogue compares to actual game challenges. were our run with a rogue pc more challenging simple 'cause we played a rogue? is what we expected and were not the case. compared to the challenges o' deadfire, our rogue as described in the party as we described, absolute destroyed all veteran difficulty encounters save for the titan and blights. the beta run were surprising fun and the vanilla rogue were far beyond simple viable. potent. *chuckle* some folks is trying real hard. unless you are being incredibly inefficient, there is only so much potential damage in the beta. sure, you can waste big damage abilities on nameless mooks, but why? total enemies defeated were 136. so as a single target dps we accounted for over 1/3 o' all kills and did ~2000 more damage than anybody else in the party while only taking 329 damage. sure, coulda' increased numbers by going with greatsword in modal, but it didn't fit the theme and such numbers would be largely wasted. our damage observations were a response to the poster noting how squishy were rogues, but if you somehow see paucity, then am gonna admit amusement. mirror universe indeed. we got more than a few hours invested in the beta. (understatement) even so, the vanilla rogue legit surprised us with how effective it were, particular as a caster killer. HA! Good Fun! I’m not trying anything I’m just telling the truth, in my playthrough, I just did the titan fight plus 2 level of the dungeon with a 4 member team, my monk/devoted get 8k+ in record, soulblades/paladin 4k, pure ascendant 4k and chanter support so not much damage. Anyway happy you enjoy your rogue and I’m not convincing you it’s not good or anything. so one less party member and exact the kinda nonsense we were talking 'bout with trying to compare to op multiclass builds? and you do realize you are comparing a 4-man party to 5, to end up with 25% more damage? *gasp* as an important aside, am not certain why folks is arguing with Gromnir. our post were not to convince beta folks who has admitted forgone testing the beta 4 rogue but has nevertheless made up their minds 'bout it. the reason why we posted here instead of in the beta portion o' the boards were to let folks who hasn't played the beta know how rogues genuine perform. is also worth noting we ain't yet had a beta player actual share their beta 4 experience revealing how tough a slog were the veteran difficulty content with a normalized party and a rogue pc, eh? HA! Good Fun!

*chuckle* some folks is trying real hard. unless you are being incredibly inefficient, there is only so much potential damage in the beta. sure, you can waste big damage abilities on nameless mooks, but why? total enemies defeated were 136. so as a single target dps we accounted for over 1/3 o' all kills and did ~2000 more damage than anybody else in the party while only taking 329 damage. sure, coulda' increased numbers by going with greatsword in modal, but it didn't fit the theme and such numbers would be largely wasted. our damage observations were a response to the poster noting how squishy were rogues, but if you somehow see paucity, then am gonna admit amusement. mirror universe indeed. we got more than a few hours invested in the beta. (understatement) even so, the vanilla rogue legit surprised us with how effective it were, particular as a caster killer. HA! Good Fun!

after functional finishing the beta on veteran difficulty, our 8th level rogue had inflicted 6547.7 damage while killing 49 enemies and sustained a mere 329 damage. no ship combat. we did skip a couple encounters such as extra sand blights on poko map, and we ate the mushroom from the plant lady as 'posed to fighting... and we didn't bother with the captain angwhatsits encounter in the far north portion o' the available world map. no wiping out the village for bigger damage/kill totals. no potions. not even heal potions. *shrug* sustained ranged? is not complicated. don't need spend guile to get sneak attack bonuses neither as wizards are darn good at adding afflictions... or use explosives. regardless, rare did we fight an enemy who weren't already afflicted due to our aloth analog's wizardly interference. the titan encounter we did need cheese, so we died once even though our character record don't show such as we replayed the encounter to "get it right." were our only survivability fail and as manifested notes, the developers has admitted the encounter is broken. saints? with two fast weapons, we interrupted 'em into impotence and killed 'em within seconds. yeah, there were a couple battles wherein we needed rely more 'pon our pistols than cutlass and belaying pin, but only a couple. for the most part we were a melee rogue dual wielding sabres, clubs or a combo o' the two. beyond the more generalized complaint 'bout armour pointlessness, we will observe how by 8th level we saw the terrible reality o' customization for a single class rogue in the beta 4 world-- there wasn't much from which to choose. with the additional talents provided, Gromnir were functional running out o' talents we genuine wanted and were kinda deciding which previous overlooked talents were worth taking with our surfeit o' points. am genuine wondering how many rogue pundits bothered to play a rogue in beta 4? obsidian telemetry suggest few actual is doing so, yes? oh sure, potd might be a different challenge, but developers has repeated stated the game ain't balanced for potd. perhaps folks played a rogue in the midst o' a party o' op multiclass built nonsense? 'course am suspecting most folks will actual play the game (at least their first time) with the provided obsidian companions, so why not test beta with similar characters, eh? with a plausible deadfire party, our non-min-maxed, human, deadfire raider rogue, were a dps dynamo who were able to almost complete mitigate his armourless squishiness. we don't see a need for generalized improvements o' the rogue, particular as doing so will necessarily result in the multiplication o' rogue multiclass combo power. HA! Good Fun! ps other complaint: we didn't get keen pirate clothing 'til late in the beta... and it looks better on female characters anyways. obsidian must need make certain the cliché pirate garb is available before one makes their way to the poko kohara ruins.

answer: cheat. well, not really cheat, but definite cheese. fight the titan around corner o' ruins near the campsite or in the small ravine just to the south east o' the campsite in the far north west corner o' the map. the titan is a pushover if fought by his lonesome. fight the titan firstest w/o the blights. is cheese, but is the only way we can manage at the moment. the blights are a bit more complicated, but not overmuch... after a few ugly initial fails-- we face planted three or four times with other parties 'fore we developed a scheme. "fight in a doorway" is almost always win, no? well, we do something similar... but the range on scirocco and ill-defined radius is what makes 'em most difficult for Gromnir to circumvent at the moment. is also no ideal doorways on the map as the narrow ravine we mentioned earlier dog legs a bit so ranged party mates need be closer to the fight than is healthy. after fight of titan, drag the blights to the "corner" o' the ruins with your tank. the blights will bunch up behind him/her and attack the tank to the exclusion o' your party. wish we actual had a shock druid in our party as the blights is weak to lightning, but an empowered fireball dropped on the bunched up blights puts a significant cramp in their style. also lay a trap o' some sort, though an empowered warding seal from our priest is keen too. traps work well as blights is bunched and will be in a predictable location. also, as the duration o' chill fog is nice, we have already dropped a chill fog on the battle location-- will not blind the blights as they is immune, but they will count as flanked, which is nice for our thief. *shrug* 'tween the empowered fireball, empowered warding seal and empowered paralyze from our herald (try bestest to paralyze before fireball and rogue sneak attack) the blights is almost wiped out before the battle actual effective starts. clean up o' the remaining almost-dead two or three blights is troublesome, but fight 'em at ranged in a large area. wizard should be able to interrupt a couple scirocco, but chances are the blights get off one or two such before you kill all remaining blights. however, pull camera back and you can see scirocco, so spread out party so no more than one member initial gets hit, and then run from scirocco aoe. other than the tank, fight 'em ranged. is not a pretty battle. am needing to resort to cheese tactics, which is wrong. even so, have not had a party wipe since we figured out a scheme. which is a good argument that a few such op multiclasses need a nerf, 'cause compared to the actual game challenges o' deadfire on veteran, rogues is powerful indeed. rogues are not only viable, but is potent.. wickedly potent. we keep having this discussion. somebody compares casters to a handful o' multiclass combos and decides caster need a generalized buff 'cause they is weak compared to assassin/_______, berserker/________, paladin/_________. we are told swift inspiration sucks 'cause compared to admitted op intuitive it is weak. is al topsy-turvy in the beta boards mirror universe. so yeah, compared to our recent helwalker/priest o' wael contemplative, the single class rogue we played were less powerful...but not nearly to the degree we expected. compared to a few optimized multiclass combos, we expect most single class builds to lag at least until later portions o' the game. however, to use obvious op builds as the benchmark to find rogues lacking is bas$ ackwards. our buccaneer were fun and felt powerful in comparison to the challenges o' deadfire at veteran difficulty. no doubt the developers see such as a win. is the way folks in non mirror universe is likely to see things. compare deadfire rogues to a few op combos and find rogues need an additional power-up makes no sense to us whatsoever as such inevitable is gonna result in a further empowering o' any multiclass which includes rogues. make problem worse, not better. regardless, for any folks who were discouraged by the anti rogue propaganda, am surprised to find our self as a voice for an alternative pov. rogues is not suck and they is surprising strong. and yes, rogues is ideal for a buccaneer role-play run o' deadfire. is no genuine downside. HA! Good Fun! ps as an aside, the last couple times we did the blight fight, we actual had our wizard use an empowered pull of eora instead o' empowered fireball. keeping the blights confined is o' prime importance. also, an initial empowered warding seal from our priest is not counting against the per encounter empowering limit as we cast pre combat-- is a nice freebie. am not sure if it makes a difference, but our parties is at 7th level when fighting the titan. am knowing some folks level-up their characters and am not certain how scaling affects the battle, if at all.

am admitted surprised by the admission, but after having played through the beta yet again at veteran difficulty with a vanilla human rogue and a non-optimized party o' deadfire companion analogs, am confident 'bout concluding rogues do not suck... in fact, they are pretty darn effective. our testing rogue were purposeful designed for rp instead o' exploitation o' the rules. as such, we created a human rogue with the deadfire culture and raider background focusing on mechanics and stealth skills. weapon proficiencies were pistols, belaying pins (clubs) and cutlass (sabre) to maximize pirate cliché. no min-max o' attributes: m 15, c9, d 15, p15, i 10, r 14. had the following abilities at level 6: escape, debilitating strike, backstab, dirty fighting, two weapon style, smoke veil, and finishing blow. the pirate rogue were part o' a similar non-optimized party meant to mimic deadfire companions. had a human tank fighter (edér) a nature godlike herald (pallegina) a human priestess o' eothas (xoti) and a wood elf wizard (aloth). no min-max attribute scores. only subclass options were xoti's necessary deity choice and our herald having kind wayfarer as part o' her herald kit, 'cause chances are she will be kind wayfarer in most o' our deadfire runs. we clear weren't playing with a party o' optimized superheroes, eh? we did numerous runs with the bb mercs previous to beta 4 and were not impressed with the single-class rogue. too limited. however, the additional talents make a big difference in overall beta 4 rogue efficacy as am now having a nice balance o' defensive and offensive talents. as such, we were the clear winner o' our party's damage and kill totals and we only died once, but the death were anomalous and kinda misleading as it were during the blight battle which is part o' the current titan encounter-- we twice misjudged the radius o' a scirocco. sure, the rogue woulda' been more potent with better weapon choices and if we had replaced mechanics with alchemy or somesuch, and am admitted disconcerted by how little use we got for any armour save for the heaviest offerings, so we ran in clothes rather than armour, nevertheless, we didn't do anything particular quirky and we still chunked most foes with startling quickness. outfitted with a combo o' pistols, clubs and sabres, we had basic damage types covered, and the modal for clubs were particular useful in a few battles as it helped soften up the will defense o' a few tougher foes... though freighted affliction seems to be bugged at the moment. regardless, have seen many complaints 'bout rogues other than assassin/_______ builds. however, having actual played through the recent beta with a vanilla rogue and a mediocre party, we can say with confidence that on difficulties less than potd, the rogue is currently a potent dps machine. the class doesn't need a general power up and it sure don't deserve the general criticism it is garnering from more than a few folks. ... in fact, if we we hadn't decided to make our first deadfire character either a contemplative or templar, we would likely choose a vanilla rogue. am not a big fan o' rogues, but our buccaneer were seeming ideal suited for deadfire, both in terms o' gameplay contribution and role play value. HA! Good Fun! ps the hold-shift bug am experiencing is more than a little annoying as am only able to get a small portion o' combat feedback.

You could wait for the Long Pain - despite being ranged it works with monk's melee abilites (as long as they didn't nerf it recently). Wait - I never tested if it works with other classes' melee abilite as well. Stupid me. I only tested it with Driving Flight (works). obvious reason to make a ranged helwalker is, as we already noted, how it synergizes well with a few casters. dance of death and the helwalker might bonuses alone make such combinations highly effective. passives such as soul mirror is nice and second tier of clarity o' agony provides smart inspiration, so your caster will be swift and smart for a large portion o' any combat while benefiting from +30 might... and as long as they ain't being hit too much, which is kinda the point o' going ranged, you is gonna be receiving increasing accuracy bonuses and generating wounds. is not difficult to figure out how a perpetual super-mighty, high dex and high int caster with a significant accuracy bonus is gonna work. is particular efficacious with priest o' wael at the moment. typical slow blast rod in modal is surprising fast when benefiting from swift strikes, +20 dex and potions which increase speed... arcane veil and llengraths displaced image is also adding survivability beyond base priestly heals for an otherwise glassy ranged build. is not brain surgery. HA! Good Fun!

as to helwalkers being "glassy," we would recommend experimenting with 'em ranged. the return of might makes ranged helwalkers silly powerful particular when combined with a dedicated caster. dance of death, scepters and a handful o' self-harming spells, is ideal development options for a ranged helwalker sage or contemplative or even ascetic. the helwaker's might bonus stacks with spells such as holy power, so within moments o' combat starting, you will have a +10ish might multiclass caster with might further increasing as combat endures. helwalker sages is a bit more difficult to micro manage than other combos as they do not self heal, but an ascetic or contemplative can manage the damage malus in most circumstances. a lightning strikes boosted contemplative dual wielding scepters in modal is hitting extreme fast, and choose an alchemy background is a too obvious choice as is gonna be taking particular advantage o' all those action speed potions as both monk and priest has alchemy skill bonuses. 'course the +30 might supported heals and offensive spells is where the contemplative genuine shines. choose wael as priest and get nice defensive spells to mitigate incoming damage and blade turning lets the helwalker ignore melee damage for a few seconds if you do get in near death situations. a ranged helwalker/priest o' wael is also able to exploit rod blast quite nice. helwalkers is glassy, and am genuine wondering how they will hold up in dragon fights or the like. +50% incoming damage at 10 wounds serious hurts, but contemplatives and ascetics is ideal fodder for combining with a ranged helwalker. HA! Good Fun!

more opposite land. the same folks telling us how they blast through encounters in sub 30 seconds is advocating additional buffs 'stead o' nerfs. given how devastating is disengagement attacks, and the advantages which come with heightened dex, am not worried 'bout admitted situational benefits of swift. intuitive, on the other hand, is extreme beneficial to many builds and is pushing the limits o' game balance. more reasonable solution is to nerf intuitive a bit 'stead o' creating a new balance problem with swift. a daom fix is a separate issue as the additional malus in addition to swift is what makes the ability absolute garbage. even so, situational useful abilities are not bad. for certain builds such abilities will be highly useful and as wizards is already benefiting from grimoires to be getting functional free talents as well as larger talent catalogs, am not particular bothered by a few situational useful abilities-- switch out the appropriate grimoire for situational benefit win. however, the repeated demand for buffs to talents and classes while using op benchmarks as the reason for such buffs is misguided. fact that such appeals is coming from people who is apparent roll-stomping through deadfire content on vet and potd difficulties is particular amusing to us. HA! Good Fun!

helwalker warning: the malus for helwalker is increased damage received per wound. helwalkers require more micromanagement than most classes. am personal considering playing a helwalker/priest of eothas for our first playthrough o' deadfire and as such have tested variations o' the build rather extensive. have personally tested every contemplative, templar and votary combo, though am admitted having only taken a brief look at bleak walker combos, and we do enjoy helwalkers. however, the helwalker malus means your character at 10 wounds is taking 50% more damage. even in the beta the helwaker drawback can lead to instadeath situations when facing mooks at veteran level difficulty. (am curious to be seeing how we will keep a melee helwalker functioning during a lengthy potd dragon battle.) on the positive side, contemplatives and votaries is ideal helwalker combos 'cause o' the ability to self heal. if you could target self with shieldbearer's lay-on-hands, such a thing would be fantastic... but you can't. even so, as a priest of magran you should be able to self heal to mitigate the extra damage you will be suffering. if you need a great sword wielder or melee helwalker, consider boosting constitution a bit. am also gonna recommend the mountain dwarf race, though such might conflict with your character build aesthetic. mountain dwarf racial offers resistance to constitution afflictions. constitution afflictions limit or even prevent received healing. as a helwalker you do not wanna suffer a constitution affliction. watchful presence and barring death's door is important priestly heals worth considering even if you wanna maximize your flamey potential. similarly, blade turning, a monk ability which allows you to complete avoid and even redirect incoming melee damage for a short time, is quasi-essential for a helwalker... particularly a melee helwalker. alchemy is the mostest powerful o' the active skills at the moment. potency o' already highly efficacious potions significant increases with levels o' alchemy. even so, athletics offers a 1-per-encounter heal, which bolstered by your helwalker heightened might will be a literal life saver. the colonist background available to numerous cultures offers a skill bonus to alchemy, athletics and survival-- good choice from a mechanics pov. am personal gonna choose background for dialog potential as 'posed to power, but colonist is a fantastic gameplay option for a helwalker contemplative. have fun with the helwalker/priest of magran. HA! Good Fun!

is an old bug which persists in the latest build. following the creation of a pc or hireling with the ixamitl plains culture and scholar background, a reload of a saved game will result in the scholar background becoming "arcane apprentice" which provides +2 arcana. now admitted we do see the advantages o' having arcane apprentice skill bonus as 'posed to scholar, but there is a clear mismatch 'tween anticipated benefits o' the ixamitl plains scholar background and the actual character modification following a reload. our recollection is the transformative quality o' the scholar background at reload is absent with rauatai culture. HA! Good Fun!

is worth noting how powerful is the functional free talents provided by a wizard's grimoire. am suspecting by mid-late game you will have more spells than you actual typical use, but regardless, thanks to grimoires you need not actual acquire all o' your spells during the level-up process. as an aside, am suspecting grimoire location and content meta-knowledge will quickly be one o' the basic and almost unavoidable "exploits" in the game. HA! Good Fun!

goldpact knight/shifter is a fun combo and gets much o' what you want. can't turn into a demon, but can turn into a golden bear-demon, and/or some other animal totem, with flame-enhanced natural attacks further supplemented by paladin flamey abilities such as fod and shining beacon. also, as enoch noted, druids have access to numerous powerful flame abilities. is nothing to prevent your liberator from wearing robes when in human form and when shifted into hybrid animal form, worn armour is effective supplanted by the natural armour o' the critter shape. in fact, poe deflection and armour is a bit odd at the moment. as a paladin you will likely have one o' the better deflection ratings in your party. take deep faith and hands of light along with a decent resolve and wearing a robe will nevertheless leave you almost unassailable due to high deflection. benefits: whole lotta flame damage a powerful golden animal hybrid form is a strong multiclass build which allows for potent casting and weapon damage. negatives: returning storm (particular when empowered) is good enough that it would be difficult for Gromnir to recommend foregoing such a talent for pure aesthetic reasons. HA! Good Fun! ps in one o' the developer twitch plays o' the beta, a liberator (paladin/druid) were utilized. might be worth looking for the twitch session to see if is the kinda thing which might appeal to you. pps we played through the beta with an ascetic (druid/monk) which were lighting focused 'posed to fire. were fun and potent.

classic false dichotomy. HA! Good Fun!

am not certain why perceived whiners would bother a person. a bunch o' teens who sudden get asked their opinion by national news outlets in the wake o' a tragedy? not surprising such kids give an opinion, eh? those victims then feel as if they matter and can make a difference by sharing their views? not surprising when such dewy-eyed kids try and make a difference... and good for them. we want kids to believe they can make a difference. is frequent the only generation which can make a difference is the one which doesn't realize they is unreasonable or ignorant. good on them. *shrug* Gromnir is free to embrace or reject the opinions o' any given speaker. a parkland survivor, in our estimation, has no special insight regarding gun control. if cletus dunwoody's truck were hit by a small meteorite as he drove home from his wednesday night bowling league, we sure wouldn't think cletus has special insights regarding astrophysics or the great celestial tapestry. carl sagan, on the other hand... parkland survivors as self-appointed pundits regarding gun control? *snort* similar, am not bothered when tv or movie actors offer their opinions 'bout autism or global warming or whatnot. what bothers is the ignorant sheep who do give special status to victims, tv celebrities and folks who largely inherited their wealth. after all, such eye-roll worthy ignorance is how we got trump in the white house. HA! Good Fun!

I can't define balance, but I know it when I see it. Gromnir or jk defining balance is largely and academic and wasteful exercise. recognize what is obsidian balance goals for deadfire, on the other hand, is useful to those making predictions 'bout deadfire balance efforts. https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/161302725596/balance-in-single-player-crpgs as we predicted obsidian would have difficulties balancing deadfire, particularly with the introduction o' multi-classing, is no surprise we is concerned 'bout deadfire balance-- marginal concerned, but not overly worried. is any number o' abilities and synergies which is subject to exploitation or is seeming not working as designed. based on past game experience, obsidian will work before and after release to address significant balance issues. 'course each new effort to balance will no doubt create new balance problems as will new content in the form o' a likely expansion. eventual there will be a point o' diminishing returns from balance efforts which make additional changes less than cost effective. is there anybody, including obsidian developers, who can predict their sought after universal viability coupled with a recognition o' economic practicalities? doubt it. HA! Good Fun! ps as to the larger question o' the thread, am personal o' the opinion the talent "trees" were better before the recent beta changes. traditional casters, other than druids, did suffer from a lack o' passives; made it seem as if customization options beyond spell choice were limited. particular for specialist wizards, there were frequent only a couple talent/power options per level, and many such choices were slight variations o' same flavor. however, beta 4 has introduced more passives and all too many is no-brainer options. tanks will take weapon and shield. a weapon-haver will almost certainly choose a weapon style talent. as such, many o' the new choices is effective non choices as one need voluntarily gimp their character by forgoing the obvious choice talents. bad design. casters needed help with their customization options, but willful ignoring the impact o' multiclassing when discussing the talent trees would be a mistake. talent tree for a paladin player, previous to the recent beta build release, were not only encompassing the paladin talents, but any combination o' paladin/_________. get caught up in nomenclature o' paladin and see paladin customization as wholly insular while ignoring votary, templar or crusader options is at best myopic and likely tending towards obtuseness.

outgoing national security adviser h.r. mcmaster addresses atlantic council. perceptive. reflective. erudite. mcmaster's version o' the two-finger salute. snippet for the ADD crowd. and as an aside, am wondering what is the betting odds on mattis keeping his job for the rest of the year. most insiders suggest mattis is safe, but is gonna be strange for him as a near singular outlier 'mongst the trump wh personalities. HA! Good Fun!

is not as great an example as one might believe it to be. is numerous tank builds which we do not much care 'bout doing weapon damage and am preferring tactical barrage to disciplined strikes. yes, for many fighter builds intellect is o' negligible importance, but particular for multiclass tanks, or any multiclass which relies on powhaz with a duration, tactical will be the win choice over disciplined. HA! Good Fun!

complete missed the point on the beta party. beta party is a constant. we were not comparing nature godlike to the beta party but were providing damage with a relative fixed party. same nature godlike caster in a party of assassin/______, berserker/_______, or paladin/_______ would likely being doing less damage simple 'cause other party members would be doing more. woulda thought such were self evident. and we already made the point earlier that dedicated casters did not benefit much from multiclassing. "the casters typical do not benefit from multi-classing. the passive weapon damage enhancers do little for dedicated casters and multi-class casters. combine a wizard and priest also is tending to be counterproductive as you is sacrificing higher level abilities simple to access a secondary spell catalog. casters, with few exceptions, benefit little from multi-class, which is kinda what most people expected, no?" we did note however how efficacious multiclasses which include casters can be and how general improvements to the casters only magnifies the gulf 'tween multiclass power and single. as such you are chasing your tail on the weapon efficacy o' multiclass combos. but yes, am thinking an impasse were reached a couple posts previous. HA! Good Fun!

100+ fireballs have a rather large aoe which you is clear glossing over and such is supplemented by + 100 rolling flames and interrupt fodder such as tattered veils. just ran foothills map with a 6th level nature godlike evoker as part o' a beta merc party and he did +600 damage. 1 small map and we weren't giving him cheap kills and holding the rogue back or somesuch. we already mentioned specific builds which you casual ignore it seems. take the same nature godlike mentioned multiple times and make it a sage combining helwalker monk and whatever-you-want wizard with a dual wield scepter config. will hit 10 wounds quick, so even at 15 for starting might ,you will likely be at ~30 might for most of the battle. quickened scepters, thanks to monk flurry bolstered by dance o' death, is gonna be doing consistent high damage with overpower penetration and heightened accuracy even before adding lightning lash at level 7. might is multiplicative, so the ~30 might nature godlike sage's fireballs is gonna be hitting extreme hard, with comical screen wiping damage when activating empowers. priests o' wael combined helwaker monk? *chuckle* the priestly spiritual weapons is having a rather large lash so a rod blast combined with monk flurry is devastating even before one considers how potent is the heals for such a build. don't like monk for some reason, then add paladin for fod + rod blast. warlocks can nullify the berserker penalty with wizard's infuse with vital essence. this alone makes 'em a powerful build whether is using parasitic staff or spirit lance or whatever. etc. serious diminishing return. if you ain't yet convinced, you never will be. regardless, our initial point stands that you got the issue all bas$ ackwards and inverted. you haven't identified a problem with casters and comparing 'em to multiclass exploitive builds is nothing save self-indulgent and counterproductive scarecrow beating. HA! Good Fun!

other than tanks, am doing something similar... although before the return to might, we were dumping strength on our pure casters and raising constitution by an equal amount-- were admitted a bit silly, but effective. by capping the attributes at 35 makes us even less likely to pump single attributes as am suspecting we will frequent be hitting caps by mid/late game even with 15 as a starting attribute. as an example, our beta helwalker builds, without any might boosting gear, typical get to 30+ strength early in an encounter. in poe, for rp reasons, we played virtual the same attribute spread for every character save tanks: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84838-optimal-starting-stats-and-late-game-signifficance-for-wizard/?p=1782213 with multiple potd runs in poe, we can say with some confidence that our default attribute spreads were more than adequate. attributes appear to be less frequent drivers in dialogues, so am current not skewing attributes to take dialog into account. as such, our current default spread for pc non tanks is: m15, c10, d15, p13, int 15, r 10. is some limited variation with int and per flipping depending on a build, but am typical building multiclasses which benefit from the aforementioned spread whether they is templars, contemplatives, sages, warlocks or whatnot. even so, if we discovered our assumptions 'bout deadfire dialogs being less attribute linked, we would gladly return to our poe spread w/o a moment's hesitation. might is a bit more important in deadfire than were the case in poe, but optimal attributes spreads were hardly essential even for potd runs in poe and we suspect deadfire will be the same based on our considerable gameplay hour investment in deadfire. HA! Good Fun!

irony. honest, do some homework and search board for contemplative, sage, ascetic, warlock and similar combos. am thinking you is gonna be surprised by how effective such is in deadfire. your personal experience may be insufficient at this point to be giving you a full picture if you genuine is seeing multiclass caster builds as "pretty weak." and yes, nature godlike specialist casters is one-hit wonders in the sense they is powerful damage dealers. is a pretty significant "hit." HA! Good Fun!

a single class devoted fighter? we can show you ridiculous damage totals from a beta playthru using a nature godlike evoker wizard even w/o abusing hardtack. we can play the one-ups game all day long. "Most caster multiclasses are actually pretty weak" *chuckle* do a quicky search for feedback regarding op warlocks, sages, ascetics, contemplatives and other combos. such builds has become even more potent with the return o' might. a few o' the helwalker builds we mentioned at beta release is having found new life. a ranged helwalker sage or contemplative dual wielding scepters is almost comical strong... no pun. deadfire might not be the game you believe it to be. HA! Good Fun!