Ganrich

Yeah, IMHO any issues with the Monk and PotD are systemic of accuracy being removed from attributes late in the backer beta. Whiffing abilities is punishing enough, but abilities that require wounds are doubly so. I don't think anyone should expect knock backs, prone, stun etc to work consistently on PotD though. The problem I have is people on these forums are saying "The Monk is bad." This is flat out untrue. If your only considering the highest difficulty then say so. However, claiming the class doesn't work as a blanket statement isn't helping anyone. @The Josip 1) no more a liability than a melee Cipher, or other frontline squishes. The class requires positioning. 2). Don't move in with tanks, and you won't get aggro from the bulk of enemies. If you get focused use AoE CC from a caster. If you don't get aggro you can use your other characters to hit the monk. I use an archer to pop the monk once or twice to generate quick wounds, or (post level 9) Thrust of tattered veils is per encounter, or aim the AoEs so they hit the monk (not big damage AoE, but lighter damage ones). Not having enemies attack you doesn't mean you can't have wounds. It just turns into a cost vs rewards scenario. What will do more damage? That per encounter thrust of tattered veils, or 2 Torment's Reach on the cluster around the tank? 3). Fair. 4). Enervating Blows + a Rogue in party. FoA can push mobs into AoEs. It may not have a lot of synergy, but it can be made to have some. I have used my monk, with 0 wounds, as my archer's pin cushion in order to proc Rooting Pain + Use those wounds for Torment's Reach to kill the remaining enemies around my tank. All of this is in hard difficulty. I won't argue the class's value in PotD, but I think that is an issue with PotD moreso than the Monk class itself. Especially after attribute changes in BB. Class is great. You just have to play it a good bit different than any other class.

I really think Kana should have a slight edit to give him better mechanics. Chanters get a +1 to mechanics IIRC. A custom background edit for a +2 total would go a long way. He should still have a solid Lore skill to not mess with his character, but having him at 3 mechanics at level 3 with 1 point invested would be better than Durance. It would give you a companion more optimized for it. Perhaps Obsidian wants something for players that do max the skill to have like a player with high lore gets with conversation options. I dont know.

Yeah, I will say it again. Monk is a sleeper class. Everyone thinks they are underpowered, but they aren't. They do great damage.

This sums up what I have seen on these forums in every thread calling for a new engine. There have been a few. How about we let this game be what it was pitched to be, and let the future games follow up on that vision? If Obsidian's next kickstarter is for a 3D action RPG you won't see me on that forum section calling for it to be a isometric 2d RTwP RPG. So, how about we leave this game alone? It is what it is.

If you just set a chanter to using level 1 chants in order to get invocations during most of the smaller combats you will be disappointed in their power. Their high level chants are incredibly powerful, and on smaller combats they are all that is needed. During big fights you start with low level chants to get an invocation out and then switch. Make no mistake, Chanters are incredibly powerful. They are also a very passive class to play, and have very little to do other than auto-Attack unless you have a high Lore skill to cast from scrolls. Even then that gets expensive, and you can't use scrolls every combat. I agree with a few others on the Cipher. They are a bit too powerful for me to enjoy. They are a good class, though.

I think Monk's are the sleeper class. They are a little more difficult from a positioning standpoint. They require you to put a little thought into their attributes, as well. If you want to be in the middle of combat you need Perc/resolve. If you are going to move around the field an knock out the enemies at the edges of the combat then you can be more DPS in the stats. I clean the edges and keep a few wounds to move in and use a couple Torment's Reach attacks on the cluster around Eder. On whether Monks fit the setting... This isn't Europe. The Monk fits if Obsidian says it does. I think they fit in just as much as the rest of the classes. There weren't any Wizards casting Fireballs in Europe either. So I could argue they don't fit the setting. I don't believe that though.

Can you imagine a Fireball (and other AoE damage spells) proccing carnage? How about Cipher/Wizard for that AoE focus generation?

Chanter/Barbarian - High Perception, dual-wield, interrupting blows, -10 concentration chant + Carnage. Good luck other team.

It would be buggy. EDIT: I mean reaaaally buggy.

Chanters are fine in short combats. Combat going to be short, and you aren't likely to get an invocation off? Then turn on a high level chant that gives the party hefty buffs or the enemy a hefty debuff to end the too quick combat all the quicker. If the encounter is going to be long enough to get an invocation off you start with low level Chant to get the invocation and then switch to a high level chant to assist your party again. Give enemies a -10 concentration until you have 5 Chants, summon drake, switch to fire weapon chant. Now your drake and entire party has extra fire damage. Long combat. Give party extra fire damage, or hit enemies with AoE fire damage, etc. Short combat. The problem is people feel the chanter needs to use invocations. They don't. It sucks that they are as passive as they are, but their buffs are top tier at higher level, and they can be a permanent buff. They can rotate with a lower level phrase and the high level phrase has 100% up time. IMHO they need some class specific talents to make them more active while chanting, but the invocations need to take time or their power will be nerfed. I have no comments on balance as I will play what I want to play. My second go at the game is a monk, and people really underestimate them as a class. They do silly damage with proper play and positioning.

This is actually a cool idea. Being able to pick a spell to become per-encounter. Personally, I'd start it sooner. Like, at level 4, pick a level 1 spell. You gain it as a once-per-encounter ability. Schools of magic... This would be a cool way to do it.

This. I think getting spell level x made into per encounter should happen every 5th level for simplicity. 5th gives your level 1 spells per encounter. 10th your level 2, 15th level 3, 20th level 4, etc. I could even see an argument for a slower power creep.

Beware those who hunt monsters lest ye become one. Thaos spent so much time in fear of the potential chaos of a world without gods that he became something that could be seen as worse or at least equally horrific. In short, I agree.

Yeah that one and the fire weapons are the 2 level 3 phrases I used. I use my highest level chants on smaller fights. Adding fire damage to weapons or an AoE Fire damage proc is instantaneous buffs to your party to put out small fights quickly. On boss fights I start with level 1 chants, and lean on buffs from the priest spells, pally auras, etc while letting wizards and the lik debuff. When I have 5 Chants I cast The Brideman slew thirty (+5 might, con, resolve) on a chunk of the party and the switch to fire weapons phrase. That gives your party 30s of +5 might and +25 fire damage. <that is a huge damage bump. I try to time that with something blessing from a priest to increase party accuracy, and a debuff from a wizard to give a huge swing for the party. It takes some micro.

I believe Trolls regenerate as well.

I get you. I would highlight your comment "It's not an emergency". I guess that is how I think about it. At this point in time I am hesitate to knee jerk changes. I know you aren't suggesting that. I am just trying to be the voice of reason. I remember when the backer beta first released, and how insanely OP Chanters were, and I don't want that again. I think a couple things could be done mechanically to make this better. 1) One issue is that some Invocations within a spell level are less useful than others. I think most can agree that summons are among the most useful. So I think their current Chant costs are fair. However, I think the flat Chant cost dictated by level could be removed. Level 1 Invocations like Thrice was she wronged could be dropped to 1 Chant required. It does pretty low damage, but being able to be cast more quickly would make it somewhat decent. While something like the 3 grub crush invocation (which has a conditional that an emery corpse is on the ground) could require 2 Chants. Instead of solely balancing these abilities based on their numbers I think balancing their value based on how frequently you can use them is a better idea. 2) If I have 4 Chants, and I use an invocation that costs 3... I should have 1 Chant remaining. Currently, you lose all 4 chants so there is no reason to not use a level 2 invocation in most situations. They already have a dead zone after an Invocation where they are not Chanting... Couple that with having to start back at 0 is really punishing. 3). A few ideas on gaining counters faster. The current issue is you either use level 1 phrases, or you don't cast invocations as frequently. I agree that this is flawed. I have a few ideas to toss out on this. 3a) give bonus effects or chant counters for mixing different level phrases. If you use a level 3 phrase (8 seconds) and then a level 1 phrase you gain an extra chant counter. If you move from a level 1 phrase to a level 2 then the level 2 then the level 2 phrase's cast time is reduced by 2 seconds and its linger is increased by 2. This would make higher level phrases not detrimental to getting invocations, and incentivize the use of lower level Phrases. You could also give bonus buffs/debuffs for mixing phrase levels within a chant. 3b) make chant counters gain every 4 seconds. To keep players from only using higher level phrases you force the next phrase to only be of a level lower. EG I start with a level 3 phrase, then I have to use a level 2, and then a level 1. Only after a level 1 phrase will I be able to use a max level (3 in this case) phrase again. This IMHO would be easier to implement, but much less interesting. 4). I still think Chanters need some talents to make them more active in combat. These are just a few ideas. I have a few more swimming around that need a bit more time to develop. I think the major issue to speeding up how quickly the counters build is the summons. IMHO wizards and Druids should be summoning, but weaker summons than the Chanter currently has. I don't know. The class is powerful, but it has issues for sure.

Fair point on Crowns of the Faithful, but it does Perception, Intellect, and Resolve. Interrupt/DR/Reflex, AoE/Duration/Will, and Concentration/DR/Reflex. It is almost a purely defensive buff. Duration might be somewhat useful for some extra DPS, and the increase to concentration will keep them from being interrupted and that will help DPS as well. A lot of the overtime abilities are vague on how they work, but one could argue it would help a Frenzied Barbarian greatly. Also, the Priest can only do it X amount of times a day depending on level. Chanters don't get limitations like Priests. The 2 Chanter abilities either increase Might or Dex which will increase damage done in a fight. They marginally increase durability of the character and they increase damage. Not to mention the Drake summon, or the AoE Ice Invocation. The AoE revive isn't much, but it will save you on a priest spell I guess. The Chanter isn't a pure caster. That is the issue. They are a PoE equivalent to a Bard. Do Bards cast spells as powerful as Wizards, Sorcerers, or Clerics in D&D? Nope. I am not saying some tweaks aren't necessary, but I am saying that you should be careful what you wish for. The Chanters have 1 boon compared to the other casters though... they can swing a sword while chanting, they can cast from scrolls while chanting, they can fire a weapon while chanting, they can move while chanting, they can drink potions while chanting, etc. Their biggest issue isn't that they can't cast invocations often IMHO, but that they have little to do but auto-attack in between them. All the other spellcasting classes get decent amounts of active Class Specific talents. Interdiction, Holy Radiance, Arcane Assault, Grimoire Slam, the whip talents, etc. The Druids get Spiritshift. Chanters get Ancient Memory and Beloved Spirit. Basically, a mediocre passive heal, and a seriously mediocre (post 1.03) buff to the passive heal. Yawn. I personally think that Chant Counters would be fine if they gathered at a steady pace, but I think we will see the spells toned down. However, the way the class is set up at present... if the level cap gets increased... future Chanter Invocations will never happen in a fight. So, a change will be necessary. I don't know... I see both sides of this equation. I guess I feel like, at present, we would be better suiting brainstorming ideas for some Chanter class talents than trying to change the way the class works. Because right now their talents aren't good. The talent I mentioned previously that allows you to cast a Scroll once per encounter without consuming it would also make the talent Deep Pockets pretty awesome. It would give the Chanter 4-6 spells that they could cast from. Scrolls are a mix of Druid, Wizard, and Priest spells. I think the only scrolls that should be exceptions are the unique scrolls (+3 to Mechanics, +3 to Lore, etc), and the Paralysis Scroll that has the stupidly HUGE AoE.

Level 3 chants are among the most powerful spells in the game. +5 to might, con, and resolve for 30 Seconds. +5 to Dex, perception, and intellect for 30 seconds. Go into character generation and go up to 15 from 10 on those attributes and see what it does. Summon a drake. The AoE frost does great damage. So on and so Forth. I think changers need some good talents to allow them a more active playstyle. However, if you shorten their time to build too much then their invocatios will likely be nerfed. I think a neat talent idea to make them more interesting is a talent that once per encounter they can cast from a scroll without consuming the scroll.

You gain XP by completing quests, entering new maps, picking locks I believe, and filling out the bestiary. Someone can fill in if I missed something. You only get Xp from combat when you kill enough of a specific enemy to finish the bestiary. It is a small amount. So, it won't have a grand effect on leveling speed.

Ok, I see what you mean. Youre saying some amount of damage is inevitable but I should avoid the main bulk of the mob (leave that to Eder) and instead hack them along the sidelines triggering Blooded and Nature godlike ability in the process? It's one way to play. Either way, Barbarians are too squishy to run in with Eder and your other tank (if you have one). If enemies settle on the tank(s) then move in, but if there are loose enemies around that need their face pounded in in a 1v1 then go for it. Carnage is too choice to not make use of it when you can, but sometimes it can be a bit too dangerous and things can go sideways and your barbarian is taking a nap for the fight (or a dirt nap depending on difficulty). That is how I used my hireling Barbarian. I am sure there are other tactics, but I was using a heavy interrupt party for my first play through. I didn't want to melt everything on my first play through. I wanted a slow and steady party. So my barbarian build wasn't "optimal" for raw damage. He kept people occupied that is for sure, and when blooded procced he would start mopping up. I had him specced (rough guess) with 14 might, 16 dexterity, 13 intellect, 16 perception, 8 con, and 8 resolve. I may be off a few points. Definitely not optimal, but he hit fast and interrupted a whole lot. He was really squishy though. Wild Sprint is a 3 per rest ability, and sometimes I had to blow one to get away from a 2-3 vs 1 scenario as it allows barbarians to ignore engagement attacks as well as fly across the battlefield.

Barbarians are pretty good at getting behind enemy lines to the casters and archer/gunners. Wild Sprint, although, many don't like it... makes them really good at it. So they can be really instrumental to cleaning up the sidelines, and taking damage is going to happen when they do. Getting below 50% with blooded and a Nature Godlike's racial ability will make tearing down the people on the edges of the field quicker. They also can get some enemies on them when they are pounding the main bulk of enemies for the carnage damage because of pathing and phantom teleport shenanigans. So, their taking damage isn't uncommon in my experience at least.

Great game. I would put it as my RPG of the year. No, I don't think the Witcher 3 will top it but YMMV, and I doubt Torment Tides of Numenera will be out this year and InXile will have to up their game IMHO. < no pun intended.

I don't believe it does interrupt, and I think it does damage 1 time. I could be wrong. I didn't pay much attention to it on my Chanter tank play as by the time I was really having to pay attention to the combat log I was using other Phrases. However, Thick grew their tongues works wonders with a high dex high Perception Barb or wizard with blast talents. Both need the interrupting blows talent though. I had Thick grew their tongues on loop, and once I got to 5 chants (toward end game), I would hit the party with the Invocation that increases Dex/Perc/Int by +5. Then switch to thick grew their tongues. So, you had "Thick" giving enemies -10 concentration An interrupter Barb with Carnage (dual Wield) Wizard using wand and spells that also was solid at interruption Cypher using spells that have higher interrupt Then I would increase their perception by +5 to give them +10 interrupt (IIRC), and they got more dex so they attacked faster, and they got bigger AoEs so they hit more guys. The other 2 classes were Priest and Fighter. It definitely slowed down the enemy damage when you could get it all rolling. I would also toss out anything that increased Accuracy (Blessing) for the party. Barbarian was squishy though, and he was hard to keep alive if you weren't careful. In bigger fights I switched from dual wield to a Pike, and tucked him behind the tanks. If he got in trouble I used the Priest spell Withdraw. EDIT: I wanted to add: I have seen people dump on Wild Sprint for the Barbarian. The one issue I had was when I got a mix of melee and spell casters, and wasn't keen on moving my Cipher and Mage up to hit them. Wild Sprint made by Barbarian the Caster killer. He did a number on Archers/Gunners as well.

So, I just noticed that today's update also added the real names to the songs, and more songs in the soundtrack file. It includes the track from the trailer as well. :D It also added Brackenbury and Burial Isle. I believe Burial Isle is the one you seek, Longknife. EDIT: Combat Songs are named after Chants... I approve.

Ok. All 4 classes you listed are powerful. They are all good. Some will say the Wizard is weak, and I won't argue, but it is far from useless. It isn't the typical powerhouse that it was in the IE games (2nd/3rd edition D&D), but it can get the job done. It can only have 4 spells in its grimoire per spell level. However, it has more spells options as a whole. It is pretty diverse. It can be a CC machine, or a damage dealer, and has self buffs. I wouldn't recommend building it with expectations of melee... it works, but isn't efficient. By the time you have buffed up the combat can be near over. Wizards use rods, scepters, and wands... and those weapons have an AoE component called blast. This means when you have to conserve spells you have a way to deal damage. You also get stuff like Arcane Assault which is an AoE that can be used 2 times an encounter. Druids are silly good. They have debuffs that work in tandem with their AoE damage. They have 8-9 spells per spell level, and they have a cast limit based on its level. However, you always have the ability to cast all your spells of a level as long as you have casts for the day remaining. They have Spiritshift which is per encounter and is good for mopping up at earlier levels to conserve your per day spells. Spiritshift doesn't scale so it becomes somewhat useless at later levels. So, spending talents to augment Spiritshift at present isn't recommended. Ciphers are silly good. They have 5ish spells a level, and get access to 3 of each level by 12 IIRC. They have unlimited casts a day, but require focus to fuel those spells. They do great damage, and have good control. They just require you to be aware of their focus in order to use them optimally. Monks are also good, but are trickier. They need to be hit to get wounds, and they use those wounds to fuel their abilities. IMHO they are a class that needs some tankiness, but can still dish out damage. You can't be too tanky because not getting hit means you do less damage. However, if you aren't tanky enough you can fold like a cheap suit if you put the monk out of position. Points in Perception or resolve are probably wise to make you a bit harder to hit. In PoE the harder to hit you are the less likely you are to be crit. Crits can really hurt a monk. A well played monk is a wrecking ball. A lot of classes have dialogue for them in the game, but I am unsure if all classes do. Ciphers and monks I remember seeing pop up here and there. I wouldn't worry about races with particular classes. They will all work. Some are better than others. For example: Wood Elves get a boon to accuracy, defense, an reflex (i think it is reflex) as long as they are at a range over 4 meters from the target. So they will be better as a Druid, Wizard, or Cipher than a Monk. Monks are pretty much melee. I am making a Monk for my second game right now. My first play through was a Chanter, and they are support, but they are super awesome at it. They are worth a play on a second or 3rd play. They are pretty "hands off" for a caster, but they can melee, fire guns/bows/xbows, cast from scrolls, etc while chanting. So, you aren't just standing around if you don't want to.