Jedi Master D Murda

Did you not play the second game? Revan did not intend to conquer the Republic but unify against the "True Sith".

You have got to be kidding me. Disciple mentions both Kae and Revan's first master as two seperate people. He says Revan had many masters before the war Zhar, Vandar, and Kae before Kae left for the wars but went back to his first master to learn how to best leave the order. Why not say went back to Kae to learn how to leave the order.

Best items Kaiburr Crystal Jedi Master Robes Jal Shey Meditation Gloves

I believe that was the problem with Darth Revan, he seemed so confident that he could keep Malak under his thumb for as long as he needed. Like Malak said, he acted quicker than Revan had realized. And yes I was specifically referring to the fact that when the apprentice learns that his power has grown farther than that of his master that he must kill his master. The problem I am having is Revan teaching all of his underlings, especially Malak, the ways of the Sith while trying to save the Republic knowing that his apprentice would turn on him. Why not tell Malak "We have to fall to the DS to save the Republic, so that if you turn on me you can continue my war against the Republic to save it." Overconfident indeed, that arrogant son of a...

If you look at all the dialogue when it comes to the Exile and party members of the opposite sex you can tell that the Exile is true to his or her beliefs as a Jedi. When Kreia says she knows that the Exile wants 'bang' Hanmaiden or Visas the Exile never has the option of saying "Yes, I would like to 'bang' her", it's always "maybe or maybe not" like he is beating around the bush. Even when he is trying to get with Mira it seems like he is just joking around and is not that serious. The Exile really holds to the belief that a Jedi is not allowed to love, unlike Revan who thought he was a Republic soldier which made it easier for him to fall in love with Bastila.

Well the question was basically 'Why did the exile get more powerful?'

Best Jedi->Obi-Wan... nah scratch that, this is what it should be Luckiest Jedi-> Obi-Wan

Well, that's your taste. Personally, I love the music that's playing when you go back to Dantooine to meet with the Jedi, and I know I'm not the only one. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're not the only one. That music, think it's called Ruins of the Academy, is really great.

Like Kreia says at the end

They all come with you to the planet but Mira is not beat up and fell out the Ebon Hawk to follow you. The only person who didn't come was Manadalore because MV is a taboo world for him. Don't know where Bao Dur was either.

Knowing how much of a Star Wars nut I am and how much I would love to see K2 completed I would probably pay for a Re-Distribution of the game.

How could you say Malak didn't like Revan, they were best friends up until Malak turned on Revan. And from what we are given from K2 Revan did indeed fall to the DS but it is said that he "sacrificed" himself to the DS so that he can, I guess, "save" the Republic. He's like Vader who "sacrificed" himself so that he can save Padme from dying but in the end it does not work out that way. I don't understand why you would say that Malak's entire life revolved around Revan, they were just best friends. Of course there was no doubt in what Malak wanted to do... destroy the Jedi and conquer the Republic. What does Kreia want to do... destroy the force because it has a will . That's just weird. Kreia never wanted to teach the Exile to kill the Jedi Masters, she just wanted to them to see that living with out the Force is not as scary as they think it is. I think what you are saying is that if Kreia were actually evil she would be better than Malak. Thing is... she's not evil or DS for that matter. How in the world could you possibly know that? Thats pure conjecture. KOTOR1 barely told us anything about Revan's reign as Sith. Just because the game never pointed to specific instances of his use of power in such ways, doesn't mean he never did. After all, the game says specifically that he never did act in such a way either. Additionally, Malak did display tactics. You just seem to be foregetting them. He went after the Endar Spire specifically to try and take out the Republic and Jedi's most tallented battle meditator, a rather calculated strike. When they made it to Taris and were going to escape, Malak blasted the planet into oblivion to try and stop them. Use of overhwelming force, yes, but still a tactic. Waiting for the Jedi to attack Revan's ship, then betraying his master and firing on him at the right moment in an effort to take them both out, definetly tactical. And keeping the Republic fleet off balance and occupied elsewhere so that he could strike and wipe out one of the strongest Jedi bastions of Dantooine? If thats not strategy and tactics... No, no, no. She was a master nothing. We all saw it coming, and if we would've been given a legitamate opportunity to throw her off the Ebon Hawk earlier, I bet most of us would have taken it, Force Bond or not. Her "manipulations" only succeed because she was dealing with 1 and 2 dimensional characters, including the seemingly half brain dead Exile through whom we really never get the option to choose another path. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Once again Drakonnen, you and I are on the same page. Malak had a lot of foresight in his plans to take over the Republic. Not only did he basically destroy Dantooine and the Jedi Enclave there but took some Jedi so that he could feed upon them. The only problem was... Revan the Great. If not for Revan no one would have stopped Malak except maybe Nihilus. And the whole "destroy all my enemies at once", if that wasn't stategy and tactics, I don't know what is Based on what was revealed about Revan's character in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, Revan seemed to be the type who was confident enough in his own ability to control, manipulate, and steer events in the direction he wanted them to go, to the point that he would've felt that sharing his true motives at the time was simply unnecessary. The less people one has to trust for no reason, the better, I suppose. I assume Revan was a lot like Kreia, in that (during his time as the Dark Lord of the Sith) he valued his "allies" more as tools and pawns that could be used than as friends. Besides, it seemed like his ulterior motive for "falling" (sacrificing himself) to the Dark Side of the Force and leading his new legions of Sith into waging war against the Galactic Republic and the Jedi Order, seemed to be for the sake of actually strengthening the galaxy somehow, should it find itself needing the strength to defend itself against the "true" Sith Empire, whenever it actually struck. That was most likely why he actually chose to become and use the Sith specifically, given the Sith Order's strict mentality of "the strong should rule the weak" and whatnot. So, I bet Revan recognized the brutality and ruthlessness inside Malak, and actually valued it to some degree, if it could be sort of "kept in check" and controlled (since Revan was portrayed as having been much more precise and practical than Malak). Assuming Malak fell pretty much around the same time Revan fell (although Revan still obviously would've been keeping certain ancient teachings and knowledge he came across -- as well as the truth of his own "fall" -- to himself), maybe Revan recognized Malak's growing bloodlust from the very start and decided not to reveal the truth to him in favor of using him as a "trained attack dog" of sorts. Unfortunately for Revan, the brutality and ruthlessness inside Malak ultimately led Malak to betray him and usurp his rule and control over the Sith Order. Of course, with Malak leading their legions of Sith at that point, his brutality and ruthlessness obviously couldn't be "kept in check" by Revan any longer and so all of the Sith probably began to follow Malak's example, never really thinking ahead beyond simply crushing all opposition and whatnot. Revan's plans and uses for his legions of Sith were effectively ruined when Malak betrayed him, ignorant of Revan's true motives the entire time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good stuff. Revan did teach Malak one lesson and that was the strongest must survive, I think he should have kept that secret so Malak wouldn't have turned on him. Malak says that Revan knew one day that Malak would challenge him for the throne of the Sith, which is understandable, but from what we learn of what Revan's goals were in K2 it doesn't make sense why he would learn the ways of the Sith and not keep an eye on Malak knowing he would turn on him. Revan was trying to do too much too quickly in my opinion.

Nice pic Eisu! (w00t) I think I see Revan near the back... really cool. I need to start drawing again.

You can get near the beginning of the game with the Hssis glitch. I love that glitch.

Why did you post this? I'm sure people could just visit the official site.

I absolutely agree. From what we are given in K2 about Revan's actions, it seems Malak didn't know what was really going on. If Malak, who I loved by the way, was informed by Revan about what was going down with the "True Sith" Malak would not have been lost in his quest for power. Why Revan didn't trust him is something Obsidian needed to explain. K1 before K2 was Revan trying to conquer the Republic but was "killed" so Malak took over. K1 after K2 makes you wonder why Revan didn't tell Malak about the "True Sith" and screws around with what K1 was doing. I have to agree with you Drakonnen. Why do people think Kreia was better than Malak when she was never DS throughout the game and when she did take up the role as Darth Traya she was barely DS, thanks to Visas force sight thingy. Sure she was manipulative and cunning but not as a Sith but as a Grey who needed to train the Exile to follow Revan or as she said "show 'them' the way". I hope others realize we never knew what Kreia was like as Sith Lord until the endgame where we kill her.

Prepared to lose them, yes. I wouldn't say he intended to. Malachor was all-or-nothing for the Jedi on the surface (and Mandalorians) but the ones who were doing the bombarding were already perceived to be on his side. All Revan cared about was that they were successful, turning Jedi to his cause or killing the ones who wouldn't. Revan didn't want Exile to die. He argued with Malak about it, when Malak wanted to kill Exile for turning away afterward. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think Revan intended to lose some or most of the troops at Malachor V. HK says that Revan was "cleaning house" in that final battle. Those who did not die there became Revan's loyal followers, save one... The Exile, who did not die or join Revan. And where did you get that stuff about Revan not wanting the Exile to die, from what HK says Revan wasn't too fond of the Exile because he felt his strong ability to form bonds would be his downfall. Somewhere in your list you would have to mention Revan's discovery of the Star Maps and Star Forge. Hey man, lay off. This is a great discussion. Malachor V was mentioned in K1 when Mandalore tells you that he still remembers that final battle above Malachor V when both fleets blocked out the stars themself. By friend, are you on a new form of crack? Malachor was indeed created in KOTOR, and mentioned by Canderous in his war stories. And mentioned as the last battle of the war to note. and according to KOTOR, Revan was at Malachor. Canderous says that Revans and Mandalores fleet clashed there, and the Revan faught them to a stand still, and pushed them back. I just played KOTOR recently and I always listen to Canderous stories very carefully. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I did listen to him clearly too. Especially after playing K2. I think you get that "betray" stuff when you say Revan was DS. Basically after K1 Revan and Mandalore traveled together, when Revan sets off to go to the Outer Rim to fight the "True Sith" Canderous asks to go with him or her, Revan takes out his lightsaber and beats Canderous down, this is DS by the way, to make sure he is not followed and Canderous wants to reunite the clans to get revenge on Revan. But if Revan was LS Revan gives Mandalore the order to reunite the clans and get them ready for when he returns.

You need randomly kill people so that he reacts positive.

Yeah, I think you only get the Dark Jedi Master Robes off of Sion. Anyway, I like all the robes. I like to start off with Padawan and Dark Padawan Robes and upgrade accordingly with the Knight and Master Robes. I use the Hssiss glitch to get the Master Robe early on but I can never get the Dark Jedi Master Robes anywhere else but off Sion.

In the first trailer that LA let out they showed the Exile near the Ebon Hawk on that planet... I remember the reddish sky. Oh well...

A long time ago I posted that I wonder if the Sith that gave the Mandalorians the offer were leftover Sith from the war with Exar Kun. I think that it might be possible that these "True Sith" are remnants of Exar Kun's followers and because they were not trained in the ways of the Jedi that would make them "True Sith".

Did anyone one notice what Count Dooku was telling Grievous about how to beat Jedi? He was saying that you must break a Jedi before you meet them in combat and only then would you be assured victory. That sounded a lot like how Revan "broke" Jedi during the Mandalorian Wars.

It's kinda annoying when things like this are posted when I was the FIRST to post it, at least I think I was " : http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=19466&hl= I agree. The Sith started to set everything in motion once they asked the Mandalorians to attack the Republic, probably knowing the the Order would do nothing. Revan went to war to help the Republic but his plans were ruined with his mind wipe and the Exile, LS or DS, destroys the Repubic some more. Now all they have to do is take care of Revan and the Exile. All is as they have forseen. However the catch is that the Mandalorians would of conquered the Republic without Jedi Intertevention, and would of become even stronger with the combined power of their race and the Republic. So unless the True Sith were counting on Jedi, or rather Revan to intervene then it makes no sense for them to encourage the Mandalorians along. Also note that Palpatine orchestrated both wars, with the Clone wars paving the way for the Galactic war to further cement his power in every corner of known space. He planned all that, now why wouldn't Revan have the same strategic forethought? I'll go along though and assume the True Sith predicted the Jedi's involvement, however if they had enough foresight for this then surely they would had the foresight to see that by allowing the Jedi to go war they would be strengthening the Jedi Order. Revan and the Exile become the two most powerful Jedi(or para-sith, not True Sith) in the known galaxy within the span of 10 years. Imagine how much more powerful it would of become in the next 50 years with Revan and the Exile teaching hundreds of new padawans? Sure alot of Jedi died in the two wars, but most of them were the weak ones, untrained in battle. Niether Revan nor the Exile(who are niether extremist Sith or Jedi, seeing as the facts say that even being totally DS they still strive to keep the Republic intact and in fighting form) would allow new students to be unlearned in the ways of battle. So if the True Sith are responsible for encouraging the Mandalorians then either way they ****ed themselves. Regardless, you never gave any reasons why Revan wouldn't scheme the two wars the way I posted previously besides "IT sure wasn't Revan". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I absolutely know where you are coming from. I think Sith like to test their powers against the greatest, after the Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Civil War, and the "Shadow War" (Sion and Nihilus) you have created to monstrous force users in Revan and the Exile... now they say "let's have some fun". Plus this new war the "True Sith" will wage on the Republic could go either way. I just wonder what these Sith look like.

I agree. I've posted my arguments as to why this Kreia/Kae connection can not be true. From what I can gather from the game there is no connection.

I take offense to that. Pokemon is not that much of crap.