theBalthazar

Totally agree. Challenge = minimal resistance. So, i think, the problem is really the "world". I wait the adjustement of POTD with impatience. Because perhaps this feeling come to this. Perhaps the problem is not totally the different trees, but more the balancing of foes stats. There is a balancing between classes, but for me, all abilities must also be viable. So Multiclass (Monk-Devoted) VS single class (Monk) Monk tree's choices (Lightning strike) VS monk tree's choices (Swift strike) Monk VS other classes. Subclasses (Napalzca) VS Subclasses (Helwalker) Not easy to balance... When I say "Beguiler" +5 accuracy for deception spells. It is because IF NOT, I can't say I will pick that more than an excellent soul blade. So it is more a balancing subclasses VS subclasses. Because in fact, the quintescence of ciper is already here, in the two cases. But dunehunter, honestly, you want choose a beguiler if you WANT a cipher for example ? (for me : never because not enough attractive actually...) Waiting, it is better to not balance too much until we can see the POTD real mode...

33 % to 40 % is not broken. It is nothing. 7 % of 50% of critical. Nothing. For a real boost, I should have up far highter in fact. (50 % for example, for a true difference) Lightning strike is not the problem of monk. It is 35 % of speed (FAR less than the full potential of a berserker, my friends...). and what ? 30 % of elec damage. Nothing of totally "broken". Problem of monk is more general. It is a full DPS with a double way to have ressources. And when you optimize you say he is insanely good. Your opinion. To me, give options to a priest and ranger for example, is far more important actually. Nerf a monk is useless. Because if you nerf all single damage, Assassin+evoker become broken etc etc. So, no, there are not only buff, read my first wish list. There is a ton of NERF...^^ If you want more nerfs, propose yourself. It is allowed : p But balancing is also between TWO options side by side. If 100 % of people take lightning strike, it is not very interresting. Obsidian can nerf lightning strike yes, but objectively, himself this ability is not totally broken. (and already nerf before 50 % to 30 %) And in my first wish list you can view monk : 0 true buff. 33 to 40 % is a joke. Do minor difference in a battle, before against after.

Obviously. But my Wish list was for all Classes. All could be concerned. That was not for subclasses specifically. But I can do that for subclasses now : _______________ Berserker : OK Corpse eater : So much a way to do that with ALL deads (I kill a guy : HOP ! Even with a reduced AMOUNT of ressources). Could be far more interresting in this case (and more powerful) Now, it is too restrictive... And the penalty in an other hand is too impressive. Mage slayer : Penalty is so violent... I think reduce it to "Cannot use SCROLL" is enough. Potions can be used. I can use drugs but not potions ? So not very logicial... Ingested = ok. Magic spells with scrolls = not OK. If not, nobody will never take that. It is a good effect, but globally not decisive all the time. _______________ Beckoner : OK Skald : OK Troubadour : OK _______________ Ascendant : OK Beguiler : Problem in fact, I think more bonus is needed with deception cipher spells. Like +5 accuracy with them. If not it is... light. Soul blade : OK _______________ Fury : Slightly boost of the spirit form would be cool. Seems pretty weak in comparison of others spiritshift. Even if it is not totally equal with a melee form (that is normal), a minor boost would be cool. After all, I can cast relentless storm with an animist ? What is the difference ? +1 penetration ? A slighty more range ? (not fundamentally useful) We can also go in other way : A boost of DAMAGE with elemental attacks. (+10 % of FIRE / ELEC damage etc.) Lifegiver : OK Shifter : OK (I always waitting few passives/active for him, passives more "specifics") _______________ Black jacket : On the paper, switch guns is awsome to avoid recovery. In fact, not "crazy". It is only one slot. I propose : Divided by 2, the malus of proficiencies. Master of multiple weapons ? Go for this. Devoted : OK Unbroken : Shield mastery : +1 armor and +5 deflection and fortitude. _______________ Helwalker : Penalty 4 % of damage taken (40 % max) 5 % by wound is really really violent... Napalzca : OK Shattered pillars : OK _______________ Bleak Walkers : OK Goldpact knights : OK Kind wayfarer : OK Shieldbearers of st elcga : OK Darcozzi paladini : Perhaps the less useful... Perhaps add a fire shield of proximity that deal damages overtime (like Sparks the souls of priest, but fire version, when the target is healing by Lay on hands) _______________ Berath : OK Skaen : OK Eothas : Lack of "external" spells, This pick up traditionnal spells of priest, it is all... (External, like Finishing blow (Skaen, via Rogue) or rusted armor (Berath, via Druid)) Magran : Lack of "external" spells. Wael : Lack of "external" spells. _______________ Ghost heart : A pet really STRONGER would be cool. You must use ressource for that... It is a shame if there is not a little boost. Sharpshooter : Talk to a real sniper. He is quicker or slower than others ? He is a Master of his art. So this penalty of recovery have no sense. Deflection why not. And for me the distinction between far or near is useless. The bonus must be general. Like +10 hit to crit AND +1 penetration. After that, we can add an ADDITIONNAL +1 of penetration, when the target is UNDER 4m. Final result in this case : +10 hit to crit +2 penetration. Stalker : When you are with your wing, it is not only your defense that is increased. All the team is in trust. So I think under 4 meters, BASIC actions must be More easy. 40 % grazes to hit and +25 of disengaging (your bro help you to avoid more easily if you want move). We can also boost the actual bonuses. Which are not crazy... _______________ Assassin : OK Streetfighter : OK even if... I am not a big fan of his method of use. Trickster : In fact, pick a wizard/assassin is far better than pick a trickster. First, down THE COST of all spells to 1 guile. (lol 3 guile for adragan when wizard = 1) Secondly, he can gain a boost of 7 in all defenses (stack with all bonuses) UNDER 30 seconds . After that, the "illusion" disapear (7 = reference to 777 of casino). Approved by Balthazar. Because actually, this is the worst choice of subclass. _______________ Wizard : OK Specialist : 1) Only ONE school become inaccessible. 2) For the main school selected, +5 accuracy -10% casting time. Eh yes, if you have a BIG penalties (one school in less, malus of recovery for all others schools...), it is normal to have a compensation.

Devoted was one of the best class. Sadly, a massive nerf of disciplined strike came. And now... hum... I will see that when I will do my tiers list, but I think he his end of top-tiers-High mid-tiers. Extremely problematic in a sense, because he is mainly single damage. Cleave is a good tool IF you kill fast. Paladin/Berserker is now better than him on any point at level 20.

It is more to avoid comparison effect. There is a -proof- that Lightning strike is better in all situation. So, I Up slightly swift for that. If it is a non-choice, Obsidian must supress swift strike. It is a better idea... Multiclass is a part of this game. +75 % of healing for a single class stay extremely interresting. And for brilliance, even with a single, it is too much broken. Every 6s seems more reasonnable, even for single class. Nothing is random with me. Gaze of adragan suffer of the comparison with Chanter. Essential/Substential phantom is a damage overtime. 6s is too much. I prefer so much do a minoletta line IV... Far more effective, instant and a good DPS. Deleterious suffer of the comparison with his little brother, line I, Perhaps it is a problem of dexterity inspiration III (not enough powerful ?) In waiting of a boost, alacrity gain -10 % of recovery. In POE1, it was at 50 %. Here 15 % of inspiration + 10 of recovery = 25 %. Credible and not particularly broken when we know there is a malus. If not I take the spell level 1, far more interresting and I don't lose my health !... + 1

far easier than both tyranny and POE1

Atm I need to test more all classes to give my full tiers list, but I can start by this : WISH LIST Barbarian Wild sprint, 6s TO 8s Lion sprint, "next attack trigger only" TO all attacks during the time of ability. Spirit frenzy, supress malus deflection and rage cost 1 Spirit tornado, Ice damage to activation TO ice damage every 6s (The minimum for 2 rage cost and an active ability...) Blood frenzy, damage overtime on crit TO on HIT. All shouts, recovery time of 3s against 4s actually. Crushing blow, to avoid same effect with blood thirst AND Blood lust (!) : change effect to +25 % of crush damage. Chanter Set to their purpose, 30s TO 20s, every3s TO every6s for the brilliant inspiration. Mercy and kindness, 100% to 75 % Druid Supress THIS delay after spiritshift. (attack immediatly after transformation) Relentless storm, Stunned duration 2s TO 3s (always every 6s of trigger) Nature's Balm, 0.5s TO 3s casting time. Fighter Disciplined strike, 25 hit to crit TO 30 hit to crit. Weapon mastery, 5 % TO 10 % Monk Blade turning, 3s TO 2s Swift flurry, 33 % TO 40 % (triggering). Paladin Exalted focus, 5 % TO 10 % Exalted charge, 10 % TO 15 % Sacred immolation, self43 to self23. Abjuration, cost 4 TO cost 2 Deep faith, base10 to base8. Priest All single target inspiration TO AoE inspiration Spark the souls, line 8 TO line 7 Devotion of the faithful, accuracy 20 TO 15. Barring death door's, 10s TO 8s. Ranger Concussive shot, add a 15 % of crush damage. Slightly more damage of the pet. Break "link" between protective and stalker link. Rogue Withering strike, 3 guile TO 2 guile Shadowing beyond, 3 guile TO 2 guile Flurry of blades, 6s paralysed TO 9s paralysed. Blinding strike, 2 guile TO 1 guile Strike the bell, 2 guile TO 1 guile Defensive roll, 2s TO 3s Dirty fighting, 10% TO 15% Sap, 2 guile TO 1 guile Wizard Essential and substential phantom, 6s TO 5s casting time. Gaze of the adragan, 4.5s to 3s casting time. Deleterious alacrity, add a -10 % of recovery time.

3 zeal yes, but more 20 hp left. 5 is far too short. Impossible to justifie rez +1000 HP (upgrade) if you loose only 5 HP per 3s. But 20 is OK. Actually 43 is WTF...

... . . .

I valid the problem of the OP : and more, there is a shift. I can't access to Line 9 of spells for single class when I am level 19-20. Extremely annoying...

it is not broken if you consider there is already +1 ressource per kill here and here and need 6 phrases to come. BUT I think this can be easily nerf with 20 sec duration and every 6 sec

Battle ship is an absolute disaster. No more, no less.

Penalty is a little bit too powerful, sadly. You can create a troubadour in your team with the shield of 10 pt of damage + Healing. If not... DPS is not a good and efficient DPS if he fall all 5 minutes. Obsidian must be reduce slightly the malus, I think. 5 % by wound -> 4 % by wound for start.

Priest was awsome for three mains reasons : 1) +10 of accuracy AND +20 of accuracy of devotion. Now, only stay Devotion. And overall this SHOULD BE nerfed overall (10 for example). But if Obsidian do that, Priest is totally dead. 2) Sparking the souls was excellent but now, it appear very late and only for single (who want a priest single ? Nobody...) 3) In POE1 3.0 priest gain immunities and he was fantastic. Here, this function disappear for a buff of a single target... And the inspiration disapear with that if it is a counter ! Sadly no more useful for 3s of cast, plus recovery... And heal is better with druid (and druid have level 3 constitution inspiration AOE !...) So yes, Priest is catastrophic actually. Generally, people take priest for devotion, and especially not single class, for use the second class. (Chanter is a good candidate) Barring death+Salvation of time is an "ok" strategy... But need a problematic situation. If you have a good team, it is not useful. Solutions : Priest is a buffer yes or no ? - All single target buff turn AOE (Like dire blessing and co). - Sparking the souls down Line 7. Too much specific and unique to give that only to a single class. - More appealing L9. Actuallty it is only bad damage or bad afflictions, not very creative... - Some NEW specific passives like... I don't know : Damage overtime +15 %, 25 % of chance to hit to crit a buff, etc etc. It is a good start.

Hum... I think 2 points. 1) I like optimization. So I like FOUND value slightly better than other for MY team (and my team can varied). But not when it is stupidly over-powerful and no brain. When it is too easy, I dislike very much... In this game, for the first time, I solo my first playtrough. It is so easy actually... It is a shame. 2) Some abilities must be tune, and other must be boost. There is again so much level where I don't think. There is one good choice in a line and it is all. That's why Multiclass is always a first choice. If not you are yet even more constrained to pick trash abilities. It is a proof of a game badly balancing. Fault to a lack of passive abilities and extremely poor balancing.

No it is just I say 'for me' AND...^^ I noticed, a lot of people think like me. It is different. I don't speak for the community or what.. : p Frankly, everybody is not crazy about that. Read, take a look of few important forums in the world : it is not dithyrambic about battle ship... All test I have read say multiclass is cool and fun. Nobody go against that, or too few. Battleship in contrary cleave ernormously...

I see a lot of people who put theses battle to the defect number 1 of this game. It is a fact. Perhaps not for everyone but visibly there is a problem for a LOT of people. Personnaly I tried to see if I have missed something ? An option ? But no it is bad, mechanical and boring. It is not fun, there is no strategy. circumference of all of this is OK (xp, items, functions of each crew members) But the mini-game himself is a fail. (to me)

You are the only one. This tactic is boring. Battle turn by turn is boring. You have better loot with a direct approach. Frankly, you think this is interresting to do that every time ? (One or other anyway, rush or cannons) When you compare that to gwent for example ? With the gwent, I have the same pleasure each time I begin a game. Here "rush rush rush". "Quick to a true battle." Extremely deceptive and disappointing for me.

This mini-game is a shame. One of the most bad thing of this game. 90 % of reviews/tests say that, I say that since the beta 2-3. It is awful. Everyone skip all of turn by turn approach with a rush directly for a "normal" battle. End of the game. Ideally, DLC should be COMPLETELY REPLACED (Or supressed ?) all of this by a complete new system of battle ship... Ideally.

Yes. Totally agree. 1) My actual and first playtrough of game is with a berserker. I confirm the problem : You don't see the health + You hit your companions + 15 accuracy only for 6 second for two points + You give bonus to ennemies (FoD shared ? Go for him... !). So on the paper berserker is awsome... But... Even with max INT invest, you are at what ? 8 sec of +15 accuracy. It is always better than nothing. But there is a high cost of spend (2 for a barbaric blow, 2 or 3 for a personnal constitution inspiration, 1 for 6 sec of +15 accuracy. Often you can't do much things...) 2) The problem with relentless is now 6 sec for 2s on 15s of effect. So... Now there is a gap of 3 or 4s between each hit. Perhaps a little bit too nerfed to be competitive. And spiritshift is outclass by everybody. Paladin, fighter, monk. Only stay constitution inspiration level 3 for all. But it is not... always a mandatory.

Paladin is perfect for multiclass. Never a bad choice and bring a lot to the team. In an other hand I am more surprised for the result of CHANTER... But I think, people do that because think base chanter is at the same time extremely limited and extremely varied. Varied because of paralysed/invocations/brisk recitation. BUT... sometimes, once you follow your choice, you have not crazy choice. One invocation+Upgrade + 1 offensive invocation and too few passive. (like POE1) But for the passive, this is the situation of nearly all the classes. So a Chanter is one of the best class, but when you optimized, you cant be varied when you have choose your way. (skald = offensive etc) Fighter is better than POE1 but with recent nerf of Disciplined strike, he is now less powerful than berserker. Sadly.

Totally agree. 5 % is a bad joke. The famous 1/2 of the first number is ridiculous here. Why not 2 % ? But finally, the rule is : 1 POINT = 10 %. And the second = 5 %. I can stopped at the first. Here with ranger I am forced to invest the first if I want the bonus. Obsidian balancing is crazy. The best choice for me is Witcher 3. 1 = 10 % 2 = 20 % 3 = 30 % No more no less. Why not 10 % hit to crit with zealous focus ? (5 = 2.5 % crit+ When you have paralyse, you are at... 27,5 %. Yeah...) Why not 10 % for the second invest with fighter mastery ? (5 % of damage is truly nothing) Why 5 accuracy is always erased by a superior number ? (Stacking rules...) Why I don't want invest second and third step of frenzy ? (For 2 mandatory point actually, previous version disapear...) Why personnal bonus of FoD is 10 % and shared 20 ? Why Obsidian ? Why ? : p

Problem dear Boeroer, there is also new system of health. In POE1 I used Pet for tank. Best tank of the game because all his health was restored. And at the mid-game end-game, the animal can do HIGH damage with good investment and a chanter. Here in POE2 it is really disapointing. Ranger is not a good choice for multiclass and not even for single class (like you said) For +10 accuracy passive (bond link), you must spend 2 points. It is awful to optimize something. So your evasive fire is OK, but not worth it overall.

1) Nerf Devotion to the faithful to 15 accuracy. 2) unlock stacking rules for active abilities with a simple rule : same spell = no stack. (two same aura in the team for example) 3) Stay with 5 accuracy with zealous focus 1, but boost to 10 % hit to crit for the second step. (Zealous focus) 4) Put 20 % fire damage with personnal boost for FOD and 15 % for shared. 5) Everybody is happy with a paladin. Because without more advantageous stacking rules, the bigger is the best. 20 accuracy is OK in this way. And focus is totally useless (like conquerer stance... etc). Obsidian have a great idea in POE2 : open mind, open stacking rules with ITEMS... ...But not with abilities. Except there is a big problem. An item can be moved. An ability not. If I am a priest/devoted. I lose an option. Conquerer stance+devotion of the faithful. If in my team there is a paladin with zealous, same. So this problem is very annoying... PS : Dragon trashed... and died. : p

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/94783-your-tiers-list-base-classes-subclasses/ My friends... It is time... The Return of the Tiers List. YOUR Tiers List. According to you, A) FUN. What Classes/Subclasses are fun to play ? Not fun at all ? B) EFFECTIVENESS. What classes/subclasses are enough Powerful, too much powerful, not enough powerful ? C) SUBCLASSES BALANCING. What penalties discourage you to take the class / are too strong compared to bonus ? D) CREATIVE BACKGROUND. What are concepts that you like / Dislike ? (Not to mention the raw power of the class) If you want, make a full tiers list, with or without Multiclass.