theBalthazar

Except if you access to a second class that give that, like berserker. After that penetration is less useful if there is a critical hit. And accuracy give indirectly penetration by critical. We Need calculation : p

Yes, of course. But a berserker can also do that. A monk too. He stay viable. But even if a class is not optimal, my main issue is more "never the best by comparison". Penetrating strike is very good. But now, Paladin and rogue do better. (penetration 2 + -5 dex affliction + 25 % of damage ; AND 10 accuracy 20 % fire damage and others bonus) All depend when you play the game. Beta 1 ? Because there was a nerf of 50 % -> 25 % of Disciplined strike (hit to crit).

At the origin, for me the real problems was : - Absurd empower. (done) - L3 inspiration of chanter (brilliant). (...Supressed : p) After that, that was already -minor- problems "overall"... -Subtle- nerf was needed : p Cleave stance : 2 per encounter OR primary attack AND without auto-trigger.

You want to say that... Obsidian... no... Obsidian don't see blood thirst ?

Because of wayfarer, simply, for example. There is not only bonus in all defense in the life. And you must use 2 ressource points to use a thing add 20 to all defense for 15s. But you need at least stay at 10 or not too much down the INT. Paladin stay with a better ratio offensive/defensive. You have aura (Excellent +1 armor and healing), almost instant exhortations... A boost of +12 for all the team after a kill, incremental armor, an armor VS actual type of weapons foe, etc etc. There are defenses yes, but also armor AND healing. And also offensive side obviously. Fighter is beaten by all means now. No. You see the changes, you compare. There are legitimate nerf in this patch. Here I think Fighter is far less useful. You don't add an argument saying that... Too much superficial, too easy to say that. "yeaaah... people are... bad. always the same thing. Speak for nothing " Yeah and after please ?^^ You add nothing to the debate : p

Interrupt : Berserker. Mobility : Monk. Defense : Paladin. Fighter is now average in all domains an lose his finish/special move. I confess, Fighter is perhaps the most difficult class to balance. Because average in all. Until patch 1.1 and far before, he have two trump cards. Disciplined strike : 50 hit to crit. (= 25 % more critical) Perhaps the real error is this nerf. Because Fighter could have been a security card (even without cleave stance). With 25 %, you have only 12.5 % of critical. Not crazy, not decisive) For Cleave stance. It is different. It is a feature that Berserker could have got easily with this "concept" of AoE attack. But on an optimal run, you can think to it for a front character (niche = only physical damage). Far less interresting than a wizard in end-game anyway. So nerf too much is perhaps a problem here... Cleave stance was the little "+" for classical and boring mono-target. Perfect. Obsidian undo a good decision. Now ? Lol, with this patch all secondary classes with a fighter (devoted) have disapear of my team ? Mystery ? With my way of playing pillars, Fighter is not useful anymore. ...Like he was in POE1. Yes you have vigourous defenses. Yes... But after that ? Armored grace ? I can recovery after a kill with a barbarian... On a single target this recovery don't work yes, but I do more damage, and more critical. A paladin / Berserker cover all my needs (deffensive and offensive). No, Fighter is definitely dead. He have no functions.

True, I correct that. It is a mistake.

I agree. 1 VS group. Berserker win. 1 VS 1 big guy. Berserker win. (critical + Accuracy) Problem officer ?

The most important thing is the area. Shieldbearer is not in the trash tiers : He is in the high tiers and I put it on the top. The rest is detail of few places up or down : p Base wizard I agree with you but, not everytime in the game. At the start he is extremely poor. At the end yes. So = average = High mid tiers.

Tiers list – Full Game - Patch 1.1 - Until level 20 Decision : 60 % on single class / 40 % on multiclass TOP TIERS Bleak walker (Paladin) Goldpact knights (Paladin) Berserker (Barbarian) Kind wayfarers (Paladin) Troubadour (Chanter) HIGH TIERS Skald (Chanter) Shieldbearer of St Elcga (Paladin) Nalpazca (Monk) Base Chanter Darcozzi Paladini (Paladin) Helwalker (Monk) Shattered pillar (Monk) Assassin (Rogue) UP ! MID TIERS Sharpshooter (Ranger) UP ! Base ranger UP ! [EDIT] Base Rogue UP ! Wizard (Evoker) UP ! Base Wizard UP ! Base barbarian Base Monk Street fighter (Rogue) Base Druid Fury (Druid) Devoted (Fighter) DOWN ! Stalker (Ranger) UP ! Ghost heart (Ranger) UP ! Beckoner (Chanter) DOWN ! [EDIT] Lifegiver (Druid) Soul blade (Cipher) DOWN ! Shifter (Druid) Ascendant (Cipher) Unbroken (Fighter) DOWN ! Base Fighter DOWN ! LOW TIERS Mage slayer (Barbarian) Trickster (Rogue) Black jacket (Fighter) DOWN ! All priest DOWN ! Corpse eater (Barbarian) Beguiler (Cipher) Base Cipher All others spe wizard

I have tested that on Raveline Old town. I am not happy but... Fighter is killed. Now Berserker is better on all points, sadly. Damage : Berserker. Accuracy/Hit to crit : Berserker. Speed : Berserker. Penetration : Equal with devoted, or Berserker. Critical : (even VS devoted) berserker. Defense : Fighter (True, but a Paladin stay in front of him, by far...) So... I prophesied this few month ago, with the big nerf of disciplined strike and now cleave stance, fighter go back to trash tiers. ...Like POE1. Yes, he is VIABLE. But now his "niche" is dead. Cleave stance needed a nerf, no problem with that, but not at this amplitude... I will do my andreacolombo but : It is not the nerf that is annoying but more than for an optimal team I don't see why I will take a fighter now... The question is: what does it bring to a team now ? Tiers list coming soon on the decicated topic...

All of this doesn't affect single class ? I'm 'globally' happy of all this nerfs. But there is no real correlation with multi-class and single. So all Single classes are still "viable" ? (except ranger)

I have do many tests here and here. Devotion for the faithful need to be 3s of casting now. 4.5s for indirect damage for this is not enough. The only thing that save the situation is the +4 of might. The true gain of accuracy for 90 % of teams is only 5 of accuracy. 5 accuracy don't change really the face of the world. The best solution (for me) is : 1) Down to 3s like others buffs of the same "amplitude". 2) Stay at 4.5s but unlock stacking rules. (Same spell or same container (Inspirations, afflictions) : don't stack, all the rest : stack) Since the beginning I am a big fan of the second proposition. Solve all problems and all is useful. Now all is nerf, so no risk of absurd amount of x or y... ------------------------- The bride of Chanter (Set to their purpose). Same now. 6 phrases VS 5 phrases for the bride caught is not logical anymore. With 3 inspirations level One, 5 phrases is enough... Already this with his little brother...the brideman (4 phrases base AND upgrade) !

Yes. But damage is not concerned ? There is already a little effect, so if all the variable are not concerned.... : p And how explain "10 accuracy" without evolution. I think there are few fixed amount.

Always a problem of difference between spells and ability. Penetrating strike Base : +20 % damage. +4 penetration. Actual Penetrating strike with empower : +20 % damage +6.5 penetration +10 accuracy. Yeah... one empower for this^^... (your only one of all the encounter...) So I think we can say reasonnably a good result would be : Possible Penetrating strike empower : +40 % damage +6.5 penetration +10 accuracy. Basic to justify to use an empower for that...

Monk and cipher, Priest are the great losers of this attack. Rogue and ranger the great winners. Finally, I join MadDemiurg, fighter are safe. Paladin have been slightly nerfed but it stay logical. I'm OK to say chanter is less good than before but always have few tricks. Without doubt a good balancing. Personnally I stay on my mind : There was a mean to stay with a modified L3. Because now, it is only 3 x L1, available everywhere, not a big fan. Before pre-patch = every 3s. Was possible : - Gain every 6s. - OR Down the cost of all ressource by 1. (Except cost of 1) - OR Gain every 9s. - OR Erase the gain overtime but an increased PL. = PL+2

Always same : +50 % critical damage. +25 accuracy. +4 penetration. Under invisibility OR naturally stealth.

Yes, a good way to restore a druid. Was a good reason to have a druid before. Since paralysed = petrify in POE2... Not truly the case.

Shifter was good BEFORE a subtle and invisible nerf on the delay between each transformation (Beta 2 if good are my memories). After that... And with that now... We are far away of the druid of POE1... Nothing is unique with the druid. Better single fighter elsewhere (paladin, berserker, monk), better C.C. elsewhere (chanter, wizard), better AoE damage elsewhere (wizard). And for healing there is a way to do the job with chanter AND priest without him...

Wildstrike : +15 % first level +10 % second level. = 25 % (was 40 %) ------------------------ Devotion of the faithful, if stacking rules are the same : become useless. 4.5 s for a thing which give +5 accuracy only. (VS aura of Paladin) Yes there is a little debuff + 4 might. But I don't know, perhaps the nerf is too massive... Generally you don't use this on foes, honnestly. You do that at the start of the battle... And at the same level there is an excellent spell : Shiny beacon. There is only two uses each levels. So... I prefer a good debuff + overtime damage now (IF I stay with a priest in the team. that is not sure : p...) Priest lose his main trump card. Single target Inspiration boost is a very good decision but not decisive for me. The main problem is obviously stacking rules. +10 is actually perfect IF there is complete stacking. If not... your are at 5 of zealous aura now ^^... Not worth it for 4.5s of casting time.

I see twinned arrow atm... Lol this boost : p Need a nerf please. attack x 2 at 25 % damage, for 2 bond ? WTF ? Good gift to single class (I'm happy for single) but seems not legit... Boost of single target buffs for priest : good idea.

Rogue boost is a good thing. Seems globally more legit. Good job. I have always a doubt for withering strike. I don't understand why this is 3 guile. ! Always 25 % of damage... Now nobody will take that. Sure 100 %. Need 50 % of damage (min.) Why not a nerf of Flame of devotion ? Why shared is always superior to single boost ? Few problems for me : Fighter is perhaps dead today. Paralyse 25 % why not, but afflictions was not a problem, yes ? It was rather the opposite (A lot of people complained a lack of utility of debuff).. Chanter lose his main trump card (Int inspi L3), for ... nothing... level 1 of inspiration ? Without me : p Perhaps would have been a good idea to CHANGE more than supress totally the effect.

the Fighter is he killed ?.. Still a good choice ?... Obsidian surely killed the fighter for optimal vision of the game. 25 % hit to crit is ok, but without more, since the first big nerf. And cleave is gone... Charge, out. Hum... Which staying his trump card ? Back to POE1 with poop Fighter.... no ?

Problem is : If Pillars 2 was not cut every time by micro-loading, return to the tavern should be OK. But here, even with efforts with loading time, sometimes this is boring.

In a town connected to an harbor, crew members can join us. It is logical. So I don't understand the choice of Obsidian...