Jediphile

X-Wing Alliance Yes, I'm old too

Ewwww

But non-canonical. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmm... awk. Well, who cares? And besides, there is chance...yes there is! (w00t) At least I hope so... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It would be a first, but it's not something to hold your breath over... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nor do I. Still, it's not as if Team Gizka is adding their own stuff - all they'll be restoring was intended to be in the game by the authors, so I do think that increases the chance of having it be at least accepted as at least semi-canon. The same will probably not be the case for the M4-78 project, though, since they have no choice but to write new stuff, given how early during development the planet was cut. Makes me very curious to see what they come up with, though.

It's true that Vash mentions in her cut dialogue that if one person falls to the dark side, then the bond between them can be cut. However, Vash also restates Zez-Kai Ell's concerns about the unusual nature of the Exile's bond with Kreia. Vash: "Yes, as many Masters and Padawans become with time.The bond can be broken in many ways. If one falls to the Dark Side, the bond may fade and eventually break. This is why, when gripped with fear, Kaah was unable to feel our bond. He assumed I was dead.He is dead. We were mentally bonded.Kaah was pulled to the Dark Side through his fear. He could no longer feel our bond.It is painful to lose one to whom you are bonded. But it is not fatal.{concerned}That is most unnatural. This bond you share with Kreia is not like any I've ever heard of. How did it come to be?{pensive}Look within for the answer. We are each solely accountable for everything in our lives." So while Vash has some interesting bits of information to tell, her knowledge on the topic does not serve to explain the bond in question - she's a mystified and concerned about it as Zez-Kai Ell and the Exile himself are, and as much at a loss to explain it too. I must also question the theory that the bond between Exile and Kreia is somehow "diluted" when the Exile forms bonds with other characters, because the effects of the bond are still clearly present no matter how many companions the Exile forms bonds with - the double effect of some force buffs (speed, resistance, etc.) on both Exile and Kreia if just one of them uses it remains present in the game continually until Kreia leaves the group, so her bond with the Exile would seem as strong as ever. I do find the last bit of Vash's comments above very interesting, though. But I don't think I want to open that can of worms again. Suffice it to say that I think this apparent plothole is purposefully left unexplained to serve as a plot device when it's explained in KotOR3

:D I can hear the masters now... "No, Vrook - this is a promotion for you. Really!"

Officially? No. But IMHO it's still the best and most accurate source of Star Wars information you're going to find by far, because they people behind it are remarkably dedicated to getting things right or die trying.

Kreia dies, end movie plays, then back to the main screen. Yup, K2 was horribly cut, and a lot of the resolutions of the characters was lost. Lots of that material is still hidden in the game files. Remember to ask Kreia questions at the end - she has quite a lot to say that shines light on many elusive topics of the game. As some have said, however, there is a Sith Lords Restoration Project, which will restore much of the cut material and seems to be coming along nicely. However, an entire planet was also cut from the game, which the M4-78 project intends to restore. But yes, it's disappointing. Blame Lucasarts and not Obsidian, though - it was Lucasarts who decided to push the deadline hard and have Obsidian cut the game to pieces :angry:

That sounds uncomfortably like Trek's "redshirting" Besides, watching Jolee, Juhani and particularly Mission die in K1 was a massive emphasis on just what it means to embrace the dark side... Same with Vandar btw. That's difficult to get without doing it to characters you care about as a player. Why should I care if some extra or "crewman no. 6" (for those who've seen Galaxy Quest) gets killed? Did anyone care about Tiree or Hutch getting killed during Episode IV? Doubtful... Luke having his hand chopped off in Episode V was far more powerful, as was watching Han being merely frozen. You don't need it, but you shouldn't shy away from it as a plot mechanic either. Of course, killing characters just for the drama of it is pointless. It must serve a greater purpose to the plot if it's to have true impact on the player and enhance the experience.

No, all her students until that point had fallen to the dark side, so the masters exiled her. Revan was her her last hope, and then he fell too, of course, and his fall was then attributed to her dark teachings as well. It does fit.

Clearly Vandar and Zhar were not on the jedi council on Coruscant at the time. Looking at the KotOR comic books, it seems that Vandar was on the "council" at the enclave on Dantooine, though, and perhaps Zhar was too. This suggests that Vrook left the council on Coruscant to teach at the enclave. Hmm, that actually redeems the masters a little in my eyes, since it means they finally realised his charming personality and kicked him out

Actually, it needs to be better than K2, since it needs to bring closure to several characters (not least Revan and Exile) as well as have a huge climactic ending that ties in with the other two games. But killing off characters is essential to underscore the danger of the main characters and the point that no great victory can be achieved without sacrifice. That said, I did something along the lines of what you suggest in my own plot... Albeit with a few bitter consequences, particularly for Revan

And how reasonable is it to exile her for having a child, especially when considering that Jolee trained his wife against the council's wishes, watched her fall to the dark side, failed to kill her when she tried to murder him, then went on to kill other jedi? Jolee was forgiven, but his crime was far greater than Kae's. Unless, of course, the reason we hear for Kae's exile is not what the real reason she was exiled. And given that it is Kreia who tells us that (Disciple tells us Kae was exiled as well, but not why), that can certainly suggest something else. Arren Kae was a female Jedi Master before the Mandalorian Wars. She was one of the many masters to train Revan, and she later followed him to war against the Mandalorians. You're right in your speculation, but not the conclusion, because Kae is indeed exiled just before the Mandalorian Wars, which is very close to 10 years before K2. Clearly Brianna had already long since been born by then. She wasn't long gone. Just like Kae, Kreia was exiled for her teachings just before the Mandalorian Wars. Convenient, isn't it? Not really. People just have to accept that we just don't know. The timeline does fit remarkably well for the purpose of having Kae be Kreia. Still, that does not mean that she is Kae. We don't and can't know that Kae is Kreia. We also don't know and can't know that Kae is not Kreia.

We have no idea where Exile is from. Revan says he is from Deralia (or at least has the option to), though he does that under the assumption that he is the personality that the jedi have programmed onto him. I do not see much reason for the jedi to lie, however, since a lie looking a lot like the truth is more convincing than one that doesn't, and Deralia is unknown anyway. That is, unless Revan came from some place that it was really dangerous for him to realise. Given that Kreia suggests he came from the outer rim and has sort of tie to the ancient Sith that might seem relevant to at least consider. Still, I'll go along with Revan being from Deralia until there is reason to think otherwise (reasons other than fanboy-dreams of Revan's background of ultimate power, that is). Deralia is just a name, so there is no reason to dismiss it as Revan's homeworld yet, I think.

I can't remember Kreia saying ANYTHING LIKE THAT. Is there any cut dialogue from Kreia like that? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's incorrect. There seems to be this popular theory among some fans that there is some all-powerful Sith somewhere that nobody ever heard about because they're oh-so-secretive and powerful. Some also tie these with the original Sith species, as if they were somehow great and powerful DS-users, when they were really just simplistic humanoids on Korriban enslaved by the dark jedi exiled by the jedi order during the Second Great Schism. Sadly popular theories would seem to have far more lives than cats...

What good third-party 3e stuff is there? I haven't seen or heard of any that grows beyond the realm of straight dungeon crawl or pure hack 'n slash or both... I'll stick with the classic OD&D adventure modules if I want quality, thank you very much - "Night's Dark Terror", "The Veiled Society", "Saga of the Shadow Lord", "Skarda's Mirror", or "Castle Amber" are all much better than the stuff being pushed today... (Hmm, those are all Mystara...)

Not sure why Korriban was split into two options here, since pretty much unchanged between the games. Still, I consider it creepier in K2 due to the tomb and the mysterious visions. K1 only had some caves and an unspooky academy, where K2 had an empty academy that was foreboding to explore, because you were always wondering what would jump in your face next. Malachor wasn't creepy. It was far too clich

Clearly I can't be away for long without the board going crazy - I cannot believe people have allowed this misconception to slip through the radar. 1. Yes, the Handmaiden Sisters honour the face of their mother. 2. BUT: They do not have the same mother as Brianna does - that's why Brianna is the "last of the Handmaidens", looks a bit different than her sisters, and is generally looked down upon by them, since they sense their father's "betrayal" in her. So the claim that the sisters would have looked like Kreia is a nonissue - there is no suggestion that she was ever their mother. There is, however, basis for speculating that Kreia and Arren Kae might be the same person and so Brianna's mother. But no, there is no conclusive evidence to support OR reject the idea. We just don't know. No one can prove that Kreia is Arren Kae and so Brianna's mothers, but nobody can prove that she isn't either.

Not sure if it counts, but you just have to love the clipping errors, especially how you can see the inside of Bastila's mouth in her hologram, or when a character has a vibroblade or similar and is standing behind another seated character during a cutscene and repeatedly pokes the bloody thing through the other characters chair and body... Not sure I ever managed to freeze upon entering a new area myself, though the game has crashed inexplicably on occasion. But then all games seem to, so I don't count that. Didn't happen more often than in some games either...

But that's just the problem - there are few good 2e products, because most of the available material is, to be blunt, crap - it's just shameless hack 'n slash or dungeon crawling with little or no interesting plots or characters. 3e is geared towards that, but 2e has the potential for more. Heck, even the 2e stuff released for Mystara is pretty bad. It never ceases to amaze me that WotC said they viewed their customers as adult people and not as children like TSR did, but what they release still suggests that they they have a pretty low opinion of their customers, if you ask me... Fate of Istus or Five Shall Be One are decent adventures in (2e) Greyhawk campaign. Night's Dark Terror or Wrath of the Immortals are excellent adventures for the OD&D (Mystara) game. But they just don't make them like they used to...

I'd be curious to see how you respond to my own theory of Nihilus' origin... EDIT: Oh, and do read the topic on from that point on - my discussion with Metadigital filled in a lot of the blanks. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> YOUR THEORY? YOUR THEORY!? I had that idea... 2 posts before yours! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You posted something before I explained my theory, yes, but if you go back to post 6 of that topic, you'll note that I strongly hint at my speculations and is then promptly asked about it by Sinbreaker in the very next post. So while you may have said it first, I did have my idea before you said it. Then again, you would have to take my word that I did not change my theory in the meantime, which I do realise is asking a lot...

Exile can learn force powers instantly without training? Wow! I must have missed that as I tried to learn Force Storm, Force Wave, and whatnot... I'd like to know where you picked those up instantly, since I must have missed that part of the game...

I'd be curious to see how you respond to my own theory of Nihilus' origin... EDIT: Oh, and do read the topic on from that point on - my discussion with Metadigital filled in a lot of the blanks.

Yeah, i can see that perspective applying. The issue i have with that though is to allow for the possibility for Kreia to be redeemed, the others have to be killed. Since apathy is death thus Exile must chose between the two (pertaining to Kreia's potential redemption vs companions' lives), that then is placing the chance for Kreia's redemption ahead of the lives of Exile's companions. Which doesn't seem particularily LS to me. Especially when considered in the bigger picture. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess it depends on the perspective. If the companions are as hellbent on killing her no matter what as they are in that vision, then they are scarcely being LS. Basically what the Exile does if s/he defends Kreia is to say that they should all calm down and consider the matter, but the other companions force the issue and insist on murdering Kreia no matter what. That's DS behaviour.

True enough. Just follow the following link if you want a complete spoiler of all that Wookieepedia has to say about Kreia.

Anything's possible. There could be an announcement by the time I write this for all I know. We just don't know. So I'm not holding my breath. I'd just get disappointed (and probably dead) if I did