Volourn

Anyone who thinks BG is a better game that DA doesn't know what a good game is or is trolling. The characters were litterally one note and basically did nothing, the overland maps werenothing but empty space with wussy monster to kill and maybe one bit of fluff dialogue with an npc. The combat options were really limited. The role-pklaying was basically non existence. People who c ry about how you were 'forced' to be a Warden ignore the fact you were 'forced'; to be a Bhaalspawn. There is no real difference here. You couldn't convince anyone in Bg to do anything. At least you could avoid combat in DA. BG is BIO's weakest RPG by far. It was their first and it shows. It was fun almost 15 years now. But, by golly, I completely overrated it.

"That's remarkably low for a gaming company as big and as non-indie as Bioware." Nah. That's not low considering the bizness they're in. Why compare them to beiber who isas mainstream as they come? BIo will never be that mainstream no matyter how much EA wants to them. Nor does facebook present theirs or Obsidian's fanbase right. BIo games tend to sell 2-5mil copies. Not a whole in grand scheme of things. Heck, I'm as big a BIo fan as they come and I haven't liked them on Facebook. And, I only recently liked Obsidian on Facebook in the last two days because I want more levels in the game. L0L Obsidian and BIo 'comepte' for the same audience though tis not much of a contest since 99% of Obsidian's audience likely buy BIO's games as well. And, otuside of FO:NV, Obsidian's fanbase is largely a mini version of BIO's fanbase. On topic.. how long do they have for it to qualify for dungeon? Is it ever or until KS pledge fest? It's at 13k now.

Chromatic Orb. Such a low level spell that can be extremely dangerous even at high levels. Sadly, with what looks to be Obsidian's system, I don't think we'll have a spell like that in PE.

"i meant that the base game was going to be that long, not the expansion. was basically saying that they aren't cutting things out of the base game to put them in the expansion so we wouldn't get a full game experience. we're definitely getting that. " Oh. But, this is the expansion thrad. I ASSumed. My bad. Anyways, modern vs ancient. *shrug* Plenty of modern games are 40+ hours. Plenty of old games are really realy short. It shouldn't be an old vs new thing.

"feargus said they were aiming at the old school length, think 60+ hours. " What old school RPG expansion was 60+ hours? None of I've played. the longest was TOB which was 30-40 hours.

I'm worried. I still have received no confirmation from Obsidian that they recieveD my donation. L0L I'd like to up my pledge to $165 but can't do that until I get some sort of email/confirmation that they've received my original pledge and time is running out.

"It's not about babysitting hte player, it's about enforcing a specific atmospehre and mentality." It doesn't enforce anything except make me waste time replaying soemthing I already passed/beat. If I beat an encounter I don't feel the need to beat it again. I also don't want to read the same dialogue multiple times just to get back to where I was. that's lame. That's not hardcore. That's just lame. It is so FFish and JRPGness. LAME. It most certainly doesn't improve atmopshere. And, the only mentality I get from it laughing at the system lameness.

You should be able to save anywhere. This is soemthing that should be solely up to the player. If they feel the need to save before every convo just so they 'cheat' the system . I personally don't want to replay the last half hour b/c of this crap. I want to get to actual new contact. If a beat an encounter I beat the encounter. At best not allowing one to save in the middle of combat (or convo) is acceptable but still there is no need to dumb this stuff down or babysit the player. there's alreayd enough of that in games including PE.

"The big problem I had with DA:O is the same problem I have with a lot of modern RPGs: It is shallow. It had a basic story, limited NPCs and even more limited possible party combinations, too few members allowed to be active at one time, mostly bland magical items and races werent that different from each other. " Oh, please. The vast majority of 'old skool' games are way more shallow, have no story, non character characters, and races were nothing special. "P.S Obsidian writes far more compelling stories than Bioware imo." Knowing NWN2 OC, SOZ, AP, and DS3 I make a different conclusion.

"ultimately a very limited set of abilities to choose when levelling-up." A lot more than any IE game except *maybe* IWD2. The quests and characetrs were better in DA than BG1. Do people even remember BG1? BG2 would be a more fair comparison because BG1 is nowhere near as deep as DA1. P.S. I agre the manual/documentation wasnowhere enar as good/fun as BG series. That was some good crap. P.S.S. DA2 is a good game.. with some really dissapointing parts to it. I'd take its characters over BG1's any day of the week. And, it also has the best dwarf ever in a BIO game.

"Fireball and stoneskin were medium level spells in D&D. " DnD has 9 levels of spells. Fireball is L3 and Stoneskin is L4 which makes them relatiively low. Even tkaing away, at first level you have MM which cna do 5d4+5 damage making it do more damage than a great sword.. in this system you could spam the low level MM spell non stop. That doesn't seem right. And, people suggest they'll just make low level spells weak which defeats the purpose and stated goal that low level spells will be useful even at higher levels. So, unless they give you garbage low level spells this syetm is weak. I don't know aboutt hat one guy who is trying to comapre the fighter to the mage as it is just sad. Fighters may able tos wing their sword more but the mage has magical powers at his disposal that can outright hold, murder, charm,e tc. the warrior. he has spells that make him immune to warrior's attacks. He has spells that can move him instantly from place to palce or even heal his wounds or summon monsters. Yet, youa re crying that the wizard needs to be give more power to match the warrior? r u serious? lol

Take a gander at the DnD spell list - there are plenty of low level spells ripe for abuse if they could be spammed non stopped and weren't limited to per day castings. How bout lightning bolt, improved invisibility, flame arrow, and likely a host of others I'm missing. P.S. I know the game isn't using DnD spell lists but since they're likely to cover many DnDisque spells.. major abuse cna be coming... "buse? No. Should the warrior have a recharge time before he can swing the sword again? Should the warrior need to reequip/replace his armor after every hit? Or rather should the warrior's armor only protect against a hit or two and then have the warrior wait a recharge period before replacing it? Haste just increases movement speed, big deal....wizards should have some benefits too. So why shouldn't a wizard/cipher have a basic attack that is always available? Seriously people, please think before you post." Are you REALLY comapring a warrior's sword to a wizard's fireball spell? ARE U KIDDIN' ME! The wizard is alreayd more pwoerful than a iwizard - it doesn't need a helping hand. A mage's basic every round attack should not outdamge a warrior. In this system, a mage would never need to carry a weapon or be vulnerible sicne they just spam their defensive spells as well as their offensive spells. LAME Seriously people, think before you post.

"infinitely recastable low-level spellls with no cooldown!" That sounds like a major potential for abuse if I'm grasping the concept correctly. If that system was used in D&D, you would have mages spamming spells like fireball every single round non stop. L0L Or casting stoneskin repeatedly.Or about basically having perma haste. All three are relatively low level spells and if say a reasonably high level wizard could literally spam them every round.. that is just dangerously asking for severe oh-ohness. Don't like the idea at all as described... Pets: I dunno about that.. Why have useless 'pets' in the game when you can just go with familiars, animal companies, and other useful stuff. The other combat stuff sounds awesome. And, hardcover strategy guide sounds right on.

"Here's a couple questions: Why use the typical gold/silver/copper model or the just gold model at all? Why not use a trade system or another currency format? Lots of things to try outside the usual." Outside of a barter system, changing the name of whatever currency is sued is nothing more than flavor, imo. Whether its goold or some other silly name it basically works the same. AS for weight, hell yeah, coins shoudl weighted. At the very least make it a hardcore option for TRUE RPGers. It hurts nobody to include the option and while I loathe to say soemthing is 'easy' to script; I would think having coins weigh something in hardcore mode (or anything at all) would be amongst the easiest things to do.

"Candlekeep Tutorial doesnt bother me so much. Does anyone remember NWN1 though? Going through all that stuff in the academy? That was annoying... " Another one that takes 5 minutes. Also, can be auto skipped after you play it once without the need of any mods.

Sure, but it all depends on the personality as well. Some are going to feel unbeatable since they already beat death once. Afterall, a lich is LICH. A super uyber undead mage - what does he have to fear from punkbutt adventurers in over their heads? Not to mention both vamps and liches (if done in the DnD pnp way) are not so easily killable - liches have phylactaries which they can hide anywhere and vamps can only be killed in certain ways and are not only uber undead but can be any class inclduing mages. Plus, level drain. *shudder* The point is some are gonna ahve no fear and go toe to toe and others will try their best to avoid. Perhaps have an undead that actually fears undeath so much that they avoid encounetrs no matter what and you really have to corner them to trap them and even then they try to find ways out of combat.

"The prologue area was rather lengthy and tedious when replaying." It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes if you've done it more than once. Any starting place in a game is gonna be a bore about multiple times. The best way to beat these is to have multiple 'origins', prologues, or beginnings. That way one can have a new start each time you play. Problem solved.

"-Bodhi and her coven were well handled and damned scary in part" Bodhi is a BIo creation and none of the Obsidian guys made her. BIS was the publisher not the developer. Still point still stands that MCA and co have done some nice work with undead including both PST and IWD. It should also be pointed out that not all zombies (or skeletons) are braindead. More than a fe examples in the MM (and games) of intelligent ones.

Some of those are used in NWN series.

L0L But, no u r wong.

"Hi volly, my dearest pretty princess. Read the very first line of that post." This thread belongs in General RPG Discussion not on a game forum dedicated to a game that has alreayd decided on its combat system. But, hey, let's go argue on WL2 forums about rt vs tb. P.S. I like tb combat but it's silly to discuss it when it is meaningless here. Bottom line is tb and rt w/p have strengths and weaknesses. *shrugs* I've enjoyed games with tb combat and hated games with tb combat. I enjoyed games with rt combat and hated games with rt combat. *double shrug*

It sounds like a troll to me. Obsidian was very clear in what they were offering - a BG/IE style game. That's the reason why i forked my $140 for the project - ebcause it has dwarves and theya re promising a BG style game. There are plenty of non DnD games out there. Go play tyhem. hey, there is Wasteland 2 if you want it.

Eh. if they wanted to they could make each dungeon level HUGE. And, if it somehow got to an unmanageable 20 levels they could jsut make each level 1 room.

RT w/pause vs RT vs TB disucssions are meaningless on the PE forums since they alreadyd ecided on theirs. This is like going onto a Wasteland 2 forum to and starting the same silly debate. "I an comfortable with rtw/p but I must say POR2 made a very convincing arguement in my mind for jut how awful tb can be. It is ass. " Fixed. More seriously, TOEE had a great combat system buts its combat sucked ballz barring a handful of actual fun and challenging encounters.

When will we get a notice from Obsidian that they have gotten our pay pal donations. I got an email from paypal but nothing from Obsidian as Kickstart says I haven't pledged. I just like some notice stating they received the monies I sent. <>