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A Reqeust for a walk toggle this Time


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#41
oddrheia

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Heck, I was laughing with him. Until I saw this thread, I didn't think anyone would seriously ask for such a "feature" and that had to be a troll/joking question about how slow the party already moves.

 

 

Thing is, the request isn't new at all. It originates from the Poe early beta days. There was even a poll about it, and it was in favor of those who wanted it.

 

As for it being a 'featureless feature'... there is also no game-play differences between various models of clothing, hats, weapon models, lore-books, etc. Heck... the humorous big heads toggle adds what to game-play, exactly? Those little things add to enjoyment of the game, though, and not necessarily because they bring any mechanics to the table.

 

Sadly, many people for whom this does not matter are hostile to the idea, unlike you. :/ Thank you for not being one of them, btw!


Edited by oddrheia, 26 February 2017 - 02:50 PM.


#42
meschert

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Does anyone know at what time stamp in the "final hours" live stream they address the question?



#43
meschert

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Found it at 4:36 on the final all day Twitch live stream.

 

Honestly, I don't think he was harsh at all.  Very honest and reasonable.

 

I'm sure they have a tremendous amount of things to tackle and accomplish right now, and stretch goals being added, and multi-classing, and etc. etc.  It's low on the list.

 

If anything, he acknowledged that they know they can do it.  If they get time or bandwidth.

 

Also, the perception is that only a few passionate people want it (e.g. folks in this reply chain).

 

Perhaps if we're able to either:

 

(a) have another poll similar to during the beta of PoE1, or

(b) hit $6M in post FIG backing :)

 

Overall, thrilled for Pillars of Eternity 2 in general.  And incredibly grateful for the team at Obsidian to involve us in the evolution of the game!



#44
Icesong

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I would never touch this toggle unless they went ahead and added an annoying mechanical difference to it, but I don't see any reasons against including it either, so why not. Assuming it doesn't take long implement. You wouldn't think that it would, since NPCs have it already, but who knows, maybe they figured that party characters should look better than their NPC walk-cycle looked, so they neved added it.
 
 

I am also hoping that it will be modded in if they choose not to add it as a feature. And since it is already in the game, the option to have it as a toggle would have made sense. I do not know why he was so harsh with his statement. It almost seemed like a personal hatred for the feature rather than a "its a low priority right now" statement.

I am not trying to cause an argument, I love Obsidian games. During the live stream all other questions got actual answers and explanations, but this question got dismissed with disdain and condescension. As a backer and fan of Obsidian games I was just stunned with the tone of response. I still do not know how to react. The only thing I know I want to do is try and show that there are more people who are interested in this sort of feature, especially in an RPG. Though after seeing and hearing the tone of his response and the look on his face, I doubt it would matter.

 

I think you're seeing hostility and malicious intent where there is none. If I remember correctly, the answer happened at a point where alcohol might have had an effect and I think he was just surprised and amused that someone would ask about such a featureless feature. There's no gameplay difference between running and walking, there's no precision benefit you would get in other games since your movement is as accurate as your mouse cursor is and it seemed like they have received way more comments about how the party moves too slow even in fast mode and that they should add faster movement. Asking for a feature all about going slower seems like such a niche feature that it could easily fly under the radar and land in the infinite backlog.

 

Heck, I was laughing with him. Until I saw this thread, I didn't think anyone would seriously ask for such a "feature" and that had to be a troll/joking question about how slow the party already moves.

 

Walking is about immersion, and immersion is what I'm after when i'm playing an RPG. It'd be weird if what I'm saying now would be a surprise to a veteran gamer/developer such as him, because if you ask most any hardcore roleplayer, one of the first things you'll hear is to walk everywhere it's appropriate to walk. 

 

Besides Pillars, I don't remember the last RPG I played that didn't have walking. Some have been more annoying about it than others(having it be a button you hold instead of a toggle), but they've all had it.


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#45
Jonathan_Crow

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Besides Pillars, I don't remember the last RPG I played that didn't have walking.

 

 

Perhaps, Tyranny? :)



#46
Cerebro83

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Totally agree. Think about how weird it would be, if all the NPCs in Defiance Bay would run around like crazy all the time. It would look completely out of place... The reason walking is not a thing for many players is because they are impatient and want to get from A to B as fast as possible to progress the game - which is absoluteley understandable. However: It does look as out of place as it would with NPCs and there are some people who care about this stuff. :)


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#47
Joral

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Found it at 4:36 on the final all day Twitch live stream.

 

Honestly, I don't think he was harsh at all.  Very honest and reasonable.

 

I'm sure they have a tremendous amount of things to tackle and accomplish right now, and stretch goals being added, and multi-classing, and etc. etc.  It's low on the list.

 

If anything, he acknowledged that they know they can do it.  If they get time or bandwidth.

 

Also, the perception is that only a few passionate people want it (e.g. folks in this reply chain).

 

Perhaps if we're able to either:

 

(a) have another poll similar to during the beta of PoE1, or

(b) hit $6M in post FIG backing :)

 

Overall, thrilled for Pillars of Eternity 2 in general.  And incredibly grateful for the team at Obsidian to involve us in the evolution of the game!

 

As am I. I had thought about the poll idea a while ago but the forums were not as active, and I was sure it would be ignored. I did not know about the poll for PoE1 and was surprised to find out about it. It was more about that every other question got a solid and calm explanation and reason, And this question did not.

 

 

I am also hoping that it will be modded in if they choose not to add it as a feature. And since it is already in the game, the option to have it as a toggle would have made sense. I do not know why he was so harsh with his statement. It almost seemed like a personal hatred for the feature rather than a "its a low priority right now" statement.

Heck, I was laughing with him. Until I saw this thread, I didn't think anyone would seriously ask for such a "feature" and that had to be a troll/joking question about how slow the party already moves.

 

Walking is about immersion, and immersion is what I'm after when i'm playing an RPG. It'd be weird if what I'm saying now would be a surprise to a veteran gamer/developer such as him, because if you ask most any hardcore roleplayer, one of the first things you'll hear is to walk everywhere it's appropriate to walk. 

 

Besides Pillars, I don't remember the last RPG I played that didn't have walking. Some have been more annoying about it than others(having it be a button you hold instead of a toggle), but they've all had it.

 

 

I agree it is all about the immersion, it adds to the game. And yes, again the point of a toggle would be so people who want it could use it. And those who do not, Do not have to use it. The fact that they have stated it would be so minor to add, makes me wonder why they did not in the first place. *Edited for grammar I just woke up and am not fully coherent yet*


Edited by Joral, 27 February 2017 - 09:59 AM.


#48
oddrheia

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Slighty off-topic, but Tides of Numenera was released today.

 

And guess what? It does not have a walk toggle either. Oh, you can do it on the console if you lightly tap the stick control, but if you play on PC and use keyboard and mouse? Nope.

 

I remember being upset that I missed the Kickstarter for it. Then I just decided to wait and see till release. And then all those mixed reviews came out... and still I would have gotten it. But today I read that you can only walk in that game if you play it on the console.

 

So, last straw. I am not buying Tides of Numenera.

 

Given that I backed Deadfire and its expansions, this, of course, won't be true for PoE 2, but, dammit. That feature is important to me. It's important to others. It's minor. The framework is there. It's not imposing on anyone's playstyles.

 

So, wtf is the trouble to implement it in the the modern rpg renaissance games????!

 

/upset custumer


Edited by oddrheia, 28 February 2017 - 07:52 AM.


#49
Nonek

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So, wtf is the trouble to implement it in the the modern rpg renaissance games????!

 

It has no effect on the three pillars of "core" gameplay* so it can be safely discarded as so much has been over the last few decades.

 

*Those being trash mobs, trash loot and trash talking of course.



#50
oddrheia

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So, wtf is the trouble to implement it in the the modern rpg renaissance games????!

 

It has no effect on the three pillars of "core" gameplay* so it can be safely discarded as so much has been over the last few decades.

 

*Those being trash mobs, trash loot and trash talking of course.

 

 

Sorry, but if you follow through with that statement  we would have no in-game books, areas would lead from boss A to boss B with no mobs in between, there would be no flavor text on anything, no weapon/armor/character model variety.

 

Features don't need to tie to a game mechanic to add enjoyment. In an rpg especially, to take away a feature that adds immersion is a darn shame.


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#51
draego

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Slighty off-topic, but Tides of Numenera was released today.

 

And guess what? It does not have a walk toggle either. Oh, you can do it on the console if you lightly tap the stick control, but if you play on PC and use keyboard and mouse? Nope.

 

I remember being upset that I missed the Kickstarter for it. Then I just decided to wait and see till release. And then all those mixed reviews came out... and still I would have gotten it. But today I read that you can only walk in that game if you play it on the console.

 

So, last straw. I am not buying Tides of Numenera.

 

Given that I backed Deadfire and its expansions, this, of course, won't be true for PoE 2, but, dammit. That feature is important to me. It's important to others. It's minor. The framework is there. It's not imposing on anyone's playstyles.

 

So, wtf is the trouble to implement it in the the modern rpg renaissance games????!

 

/upset custumer

 

Really this is the last straw. This is the weirdest issue to decide to not buy a game on. i dont care either way but dont you think you are over reacting just a bit. I mean if the game is not good then ok fine but walking.



#52
Joral

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Slighty off-topic, but Tides of Numenera was released today.

 

And guess what? It does not have a walk toggle either. Oh, you can do it on the console if you lightly tap the stick control, but if you play on PC and use keyboard and mouse? Nope.

 

I remember being upset that I missed the Kickstarter for it. Then I just decided to wait and see till release. And then all those mixed reviews came out... and still I would have gotten it. But today I read that you can only walk in that game if you play it on the console.

 

So, last straw. I am not buying Tides of Numenera.

 

Given that I backed Deadfire and its expansions, this, of course, won't be true for PoE 2, but, dammit. That feature is important to me. It's important to others. It's minor. The framework is there. It's not imposing on anyone's playstyles.

 

So, wtf is the trouble to implement it in the the modern rpg renaissance games????!

 

/upset custumer

 

They have confirmed on the forums of TToN that the walk toggle WILL be added in a later update. My Forum name over there is Taziel since my standard Joral was taken and I also had a discussion concerning the walk toggle there. copy pasted response "There is no walk toggle in the game as of now with mouse/keyboard, but I've added it to our list of things to look at for a future update."



#53
Varana

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That does not say "WILL be added". That says "I've put it on the maybe pile". Sear doesn't even say "list of things to add in future updates", he said "list of things to look at".

I don't quite understand that opposition to a walk toggle, though. Who cares if you like running?

#54
oddrheia

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Actually, Saer's latest response is a little (very little) bit optimistic:

 

 

sear  [developer] 1 hour ago
Thanks for the feedback! We'll investigate this and see if it's possible to include later down the road.

 

Given that the situation there is similar to how it is in PoE ( pc characters walk in cutscenes), AND given that walk toggle was modded in PoE, we all know it's possible.

 

I do not understand the heavy opposition to it, either. :getlost:


Edited by oddrheia, 28 February 2017 - 11:02 AM.

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#55
Hertzila

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I'm guessing that it's a UI design issue. It wouldn't explain why it can't be a button toggle, but the modern UI design usually hates things that won't be used by most people. Why waste screenspace for something 99% of people won't touch, or will touch once and then again to turn it off?



#56
Joral

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Actually, Saer's latest response is a little (very little) bit optimistic:

 

 

sear  [developer] 1 hour ago
Thanks for the feedback! We'll investigate this and see if it's possible to include later down the road.

 

Given that the situation there is similar to how it is in PoE ( pc characters walk in cutscenes), AND given that walk toggle was modded in PoE, we all know it's possible.

 

I do not understand the heavy opposition to it, either. :getlost:

 

Yeah, the fact it is not there seems to be biting them in the ass right now. And the comment "You can use a controller" seems to be pissing off the community even more :S. Its sad (though true) that they are criticizing both PoE 1 and Tyranny for ignoring it now as well (Steam posts). I really hope that Obsidian changes there stance on this feature as well. Especially since in Tyranny case, there was not much of a modding community due to the poor reception of the game and NOT the lack of interest in the feature. I personally really liked Tyranny with the exception of the 3rd act and a couple chopped up story lines in the 2nd act. Overall I would love to see an expansion or a sequel to the game (As long as it is not chopped up for replayability) as I enjoyed the story.



#57
Idara

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I'm guessing that it's a UI design issue. It wouldn't explain why it can't be a button toggle, but the modern UI design usually hates things that won't be used by most people. Why waste screenspace for something 99% of people won't touch, or will touch once and then again to turn it off?


So why not just make it hotkey-able? (That is too a word! :-P ). I don't understand why they can include bobble-head mode but not a way for my guys to walk, dammit!
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#58
Joral

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I'm guessing that it's a UI design issue. It wouldn't explain why it can't be a button toggle, but the modern UI design usually hates things that won't be used by most people. Why waste screenspace for something 99% of people won't touch, or will touch once and then again to turn it off?


So why not just make it hotkey-able? (That is too a word! :-P ). I don't understand why they can include bobble-head mode but not a way for my guys to walk, dammit!

 

 

That is what we mean by a toggle :p. And I am of the same opinion on the bobble-head mode, used it once had a laugh never touched it again. However with the walk toggle (IEMOD) I use it alot. Sometime when going through an area for the 4th 5th time I will say F'it and run but then I go back to walking.


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#59
Shiroco

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Well, I can understand the reasoning behind this and I hope that obsidian will implement this for those that want something like this but I have a hard time imagining anyone actually playing through the whole game with the walk toggle on where appropriate. Hardcore role players are something else  ^^


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#60
Varana

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I wouldn't even use it for the majority of the game, only special occasions - but on those occasions, it would make a great difference.
You don't run into an old Lady's office. Or sprint down the hall to the tribal leader.
Or in other games, have your sword drawn while talking to people (Morrowind actually punished you for that lack of etiquette). Or take off your full helmet when in civilised areas. (PoE's avatars are too small for that.)
Little things.

I never even used big head mode once.
Really, why is that there?




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