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A Reqeust for a walk toggle this Time

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Pro Tip :

 

Put the Game in Slow Mode, there you go, Walking Animation !

Problem Solved  :aiee::facepalm:

And here is a pro tip for you:

1. Hold your lip really tight between your fingers.

2. Pull the lip over your head.

3. Swallow.

4. When your head comes out of your ass, read what people already said about your suggestion.

 

Maybe you'd like to pull that stick out of your arse?

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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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Pro Tip :

 

Put the Game in Slow Mode, there you go, Walking Animation !

Problem Solved  :aiee::facepalm:

And here is a pro tip for you:

1. Hold your lip really tight between your fingers.

2. Pull the lip over your head.

3. Swallow.

4. When your head comes out of your ass, read what people already said about your suggestion.

 

How do you do this ?! Man, I tried, but it doesn't work.

But, you succeeded right ? There can't be another explaination to behave like an ass :shrugz:

How long have you been stuck in this position ?  :)

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I would say this is hardly a choice. Idle all the way.

Why can't we have both? Yeah, you are absolutely right that this is not a choice. It should never be a choice. Both of these things need to be in the game, because it will add to imerssion to certain types of players. Not everybody of course, but that can be said about any part of the game.

Of course, it was a hypotherical speculation to which I replied ("if you had to choose between those two features, which one would you choose".) It is not a choice mainly becouse one is already implimented and other is not. Curiously enough "idle animations" seem like they would take much more work to impliment unless the way movement in PoE is programed would make it tricky (this is, again, just a speculation on my part - I know little of programing and even less on how PoE engine works. However, after years of following gaming I have learned that sometimes even simple features can take a lot of work to impliment, if engine isn't built to support them.) I brought this subject in order to defent usefulness of "idle animations" over "walking toggle" but that brings us to argument no. 2:

 

 

Idle animations will be seen by everyone - when they look around, during conversations etc. And they enhance the game by helping in fleshing out companions, locations and your character.

I will now use your argument to illustrate the above point: "Well, I doubt people will use it (idle animations), since most people are in a constant hurry to do things, so most of the players would find it to be an unnecessary waste of time."

 

See? We both can make unsubstianted claims. :)

 

Now, this is just a factually wrong argument on your part, trying to push your agenda no matter if it makes logical sense or not:

 

If/when walk toggle will be implimented it will probably be done in following ways:

 

1) you click once to walk, double click to run. Possible "always run" in options.

 

2)  A "shift + click" to walk or walk toggle (press "shift" to toggle walk/run) - "shift" in this case being symbolic for whatever key would be used to toggle run.

 

Naturally, I don't have much data on how many people run in games (because why would I have those??) but I played for many years, I watched people play for many years. I read/watched many reviews.) Both "idle animations" and "walking animations" are a fluff feature. They cool look. They are "immersive." Idle animations help devs in storytelling (setting a personality of a character, of place etc.) "Walking animations" less so, though of course, you do seem to desire to "roleplay" being in a tavern, in a shop and in those places you usually won't run. Fair enough, good for you, I hope they will impliment it.

 

However, much common are complains of your characters not moving fast enough (I heard plenty complains that PoE fast forward isn't fast enough - also Old Republic made a bussines out of it by gating running from Free to play players), cinematics being unskippable, forced  walking etc. Based on all that knowledge, I do say with all confidence that majority of players will prefer to get quicker from point A-B rather than watch their character slowely stroll there. And not here is where you are factually wrong:

 

 

 "Well, I doubt people will use it (idle animations), since most people are in a constant hurry to do things, so most of the players would find it to be an unnecessary waste of time."

 

While I can make a claim that majority of people will not use thise feature, you can't do the same about "idle animations." Because the game is designed in a way that they will. They will see them when they are in conversation (keep in mind game doesn't pause in PoE2 when you enter conversation,) They will see it when they stop to look around or plan what to do next, they will see it in cities and tavern when NPCs will not move and go about their daily business. 

 

Look, just because you personally dont use a feature, doesn't mean that the same applies to everyone else. And again, there is not a high demand for colorblind mode, but the devs still made it, so why should this be treated any differently?

 

Again, stupid argument, for a sake of an argument, with no meat to it. You were already corrected by someone that it is not the same. Not putting a feature someone really won't to see, and making a game impossible for someone to play because by inherited fault are quite different things. You can play PoE and PoE2 without walking feature and enjoy the same experience as everyone else. Someone who is color blind can't. He need colours edjusted so he/she can differenciate between friend and foe etc. A more accurate comparison is setting custom colours for circles under your characters. Some people might really really want it (is it in the game already? Might be, don't know) but it is extra fulff, which is nice but unnecessary. More importantly, Josh Sawyer is colour blind:-).

 

Most people commenting here want this option. On the Obsidian's YouTube video with the latest patch I made a comment about this topic and I recieved over 30 likes in less than 12 hours since posting it. It is at this time one of the most highlighted comments! 

Good for you! Of course, I did see you ripping into the features shown at the video because it is not what you wanted to see, and lashing out at people and throwing out personal insults because someone respectfully replied that they believe "idle animations" were more valuable than an option to "walk." However, I am afraid the amount of... support you have recieved works hardly in your favour. So at the time of writing you have 31 likes on your comment, so with you its 32 to people supporting you complain.

 

24089 saw the video at the time of writing. That would suggest 0.1% people are interested in said feature. 

 

If course, it is by no means reliable source of data. A comment "So which Weapon Focus does projectile vomit fall under?" has 64 likes, and top comment is drooling over Katrina. And it is unlikely many people went down to comment section. And I for one, watched the video 3 times by now.

 

So why did I bother to waste my time and write all of this? Please, stop being a d***. No one is agaist walking feature, and some would be happy to see it. But attacking Obsidian and other customers because they don't do/say what you want them to is not a way to get what you want. Sarcasm can be very effective, but the problem is that if your argument is off it just makes you look like a moron. Never insult anyone, but if you do, at least make sure your argument makes some sense. If you really want people to support you, convince them that your idea is good, just not this: "The anti-walk people are just a bunch of retarded ADHD morons and that is a bloody fact." I, for one, do not have ADHD, I am capable of focusing intensly for a lengthy period of time, and my IQ, field of work and education would also go against the "moron" part. Even if all those were true in order to call them "facts" you would need access to my/our medical records. Which you don't have. 

 

Now off to something productive.

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I know little of programing and even less on how PoE engine works. However, after years of following gaming I have learned... *snip*

If you don't know neither programing nor how the PoE engine works, you are unqualified to make any factual statments on how hard it would be to implement something. So you dont have a leg to stand on. As for me, I do know something about programming and how the unity engine works. I am a modder and an amateur game designer myself, so when I tell you that this is literally 5 minutes of work, it just flies over your head.

 

Now, this is just a factually wrong argument on your part, trying to push your agenda no matter if it makes logical sense or not..

You don't know the first thing about logic, either. Case and point your assinine false dillemma fallacy where you just pull out of your ass how there are only 2 options in how to integrate the walking mechanic. Hell, I can mention 10 games from the top of my hat that all had different ways of implementing walk mechanics. So, what was that about logic again?

 

Naturally, I don't have much data on how many people run in games (because why would I have those??)

Because you made a positive claim how most people would not use the feature, you assclown! I mean, LoL :)

 

I watched people play for many years. I read/watched many reviews

Yeah, that's another logical fallacy right there. It's called anecdotal fallacy.

 

Both "idle animations" and "walking animations" are a fluff feature. They cool look. They are "immersive."

Yes, so what?

 

However, much common are complains of your characters not moving fast enough (I heard plenty complains that PoE fast forward isn't fast enough

Again, show me the data. From my personal experience, it is the other way around. I guess when you type into Google how to walk faster, you will get bunch of people complaining about the game being too slow, and when you type into Google how to toggle walk, you will get people like me. Wow! Imagine that! You just blew up my mind here, dude!

 

While I can make a claim that majority of people will not use thise feature, you can't do the same about "idle animations.

Because double standards?

 

Because the game is designed in a way that they will. They will see them when they are in conversation (keep in mind game doesn't pause in PoE2 when you enter conversation,)

Only if you assume that people will actually read the dialogues and not just quickly click through them and then read the quest log. I mean, I can also pull your stunt now and assert without a shred of evidence how most people will not see it, because they will be rushing through the game, since most people on the forums complain about the game being too slow and the dialogues being too long and windy, etc.. etc.. I don't believe that for a second, but this is quite literally your argument from above.

 

My advice is, you don't know how different people with different preferences will play the game, so don't assume things out of your ass and give people an option to choose. But, NOOO! We cant have that! That would be too sensible. Give me a break, dude. Pfft...

 

You can play PoE and PoE2 without walking feature and enjoy the same experience as everyone else.

God... and then when I call people stupid they will say I am being rude. Dude, do you realize what you just said here?? You literally said that I can play PoE without a walk feature and enjoy the game just as everyone else, despite the fact that I already explained to you that this TO ME AND MANY OTHER people is game breaking. I mean, if I tell you that I hate mexican food, will you try to persuade me how I can enjoy mexican food as everyone else, despite me excplicitly saying that I damn hate it!! How thick do you have to be to not understand this simple concept?

 

Good for you! Of course, I did see you ripping into the features shown at the video because it is not what you wanted to see, and lashing out at people and throwing out personal insults because someone respectfully replied that they believe "idle animations" were more valuable than an option to "walk."

I never lashed out at anyone for believing that. I lashed out at people who were saying dumb **** like yourself... like trying to dictate to me and other people what we personally enjoy and do not enjoy. There is a big difference between the two.

 

Personally I have no problem with people who disagree with me on valid grounds or even just express their own personal preferences, but I have 0 tolerance for people telling us what we do and do not enjoy when we already said quite adamantly what our preferences are. I would rather be called a moron and see a good argument for it than be exposed to utter garbage of that type.

You too are now heading straight to my block list, because you are just not worth my time anymore. Your arguments are all... just dumb. Sorry if my honsty hurts your feelings.

Edited by RedKnight

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I know little of programing and even less on how PoE engine works. However, after years of following gaming I have learned... *snip*
If you don't know neither programing nor how the PoE engine works, you are unqualified to make any factual statments on how hard it would be to implement something. So you dont have a leg to stand on. As for me, I do know something about programming and how the unity engine works. I am a modder and an amateur game designer myself, so when I tell you that this is literally 5 minutes of work, it just flies over your head.

 

Now, this is just a factually wrong argument on your part, trying to push your agenda no matter if it makes logical sense or not..
You don't know the first thing about logic, either. Case and point your assinine false dillemma fallacy where you just pull out of your ass how there are only 2 options in how to integrate the walking mechanic. Hell, I can mention 10 games from the top of my hat that all had different ways of implementing walk mechanics. So, what was that about logic again?

 

Naturally, I don't have much data on how many people run in games (because why would I have those??)
Because you made a positive claim how most people would not use the feature, you assclown! I mean, LoL :)

 

I watched people play for many years. I read/watched many reviews
Yeah, that's another logical fallacy right there. It's called anecdotal fallacy.

 

Both "idle animations" and "walking animations" are a fluff feature. They cool look. They are "immersive."
Yes, so what?

 

However, much common are complains of your characters not moving fast enough (I heard plenty complains that PoE fast forward isn't fast enough
Again, show me the data. From my personal experience, it is the other way around. I guess when you type into Google how to walk faster, you will get bunch of people complaining about the game being too slow, and when you type into Google how to toggle walk, you will get people like me. Wow! Imagine that! You just blew up my mind here, dude!

 

While I can make a claim that majority of people will not use thise feature, you can't do the same about "idle animations.
Because double standards?

 

Because the game is designed in a way that they will. They will see them when they are in conversation (keep in mind game doesn't pause in PoE2 when you enter conversation,)
Only if you assume that people will actually read the dialogues and not just quickly click through them and then read the quest log. I mean, I can also pull your stunt now and assert without a shred of evidence how most people will not see it, because they will be rushing through the game, since most people on the forums complain about the game being too slow and the dialogues being too long and windy, etc.. etc.. I don't believe that for a second, but this is quite literally your argument from above.My advice is, you don't know how different people with different preferences will play the game, so don't assume things out of your ass and give people an option to choose. But, NOOO! We cant have that! That would be too sensible. Give me a break, dude. Pfft... 

 

You can play PoE and PoE2 without walking feature and enjoy the same experience as everyone else.
God... and then when I call people stupid they will say I am being rude. Dude, do you realize what you just said here?? You literally said that I can play PoE without a walk feature and enjoy the game just as everyone else, despite the fact that I already explained to you that this TO ME AND MANY OTHER people is game breaking. I mean, if I tell you that I hate mexican food, will you try to persuade me how I can enjoy mexican food as everyone else, despite me excplicitly saying that I damn hate it!! How thick do you have to be to not understand this simple concept?

 

Good for you! Of course, I did see you ripping into the features shown at the video because it is not what you wanted to see, and lashing out at people and throwing out personal insults because someone respectfully replied that they believe "idle animations" were more valuable than an option to "walk."
I never lashed out at anyone for believing that. I lashed out at people who were saying dumb **** like yourself... like trying to dictate to me and other people what we personally enjoy and do not enjoy. There is a big difference between the two.Personally I have no problem with people who disagree with me on valid grounds, but I have 0 tolerance for sheer stupidity that some people exhibit and I will call these things out for what they are. I would rather be called a moron and see a good argument for it than be exposed to utter garbage that some people post.You too are now heading straight to my block list, because you are just not worth my time anymore. Your arguments are all... just dumb.

 

I am really disappointed to see I have wasted my time.

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There are some pretty intense debates/arguments on these forums...!

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nowt

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I don't actually remember seeing any that was as intense as this one... about a walk toggle. That included debates about diversity and the Might controversy. I guess the walk toggle is basically a symbol here, and the debate about that is actually a debate about immersion and mechanics that enable it.

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I don't actually remember seeing any that was as intense as this one... about a walk toggle. That included debates about diversity and the Might controversy. I guess the walk toggle is basically a symbol here, and the debate about that is actually a debate about immersion and mechanics that enable it.

Nah, just one person treated replies like "something I don't care much about" and "I would rather see Obsidian spend time elsewhere" as an assault on his preference and request, and some people like myself were foolish enough not to ignore him.

 

The funny thing is, I don't think there is anyone who is against the feature.

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Considering how long it took to iron out fairly serious bugs in POE1, think I'd prefer Obsidian to focus on the core gameplay instead of adding one-armed giant dwarves without a sex, or bird-men in a wheelchair with a direction difficulties (which you can drive slowly). I'm sure some of the talked about unusual options would be lovely for a small subset of gamers, but honestly, I'd prefer them to focus on the more important issues of balancing the game, removing bugs, and so forth.

 

It's a tricky thing of course, and I understand that if you happen to be in this or that minority, you'd want to have it represented in the game. But from a developer's perspective, if you first start catering to such wishes, where does it end?

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Considering how long it took to iron out fairly serious bugs in POE1, think I'd prefer Obsidian to focus on the core gameplay instead of adding one-armed giant dwarves without a sex, or bird-men in a wheelchair with a direction difficulties (which you can drive slowly). I'm sure some of the talked about unusual options would be lovely for a small subset of gamers, but honestly, I'd prefer them to focus on the more important issues of balancing the game, removing bugs, and so forth.

 

It's a tricky thing of course, and I understand that if you happen to be in this or that minority, you'd want to have it represented in the game. But from a developer's perspective, if you first start catering to such wishes, where does it end?

Overall, I agree. It seems Obsidian has similar stance as they confirmed walking toggle is on their to do list though it is a low prioriy one. Would be nice, and will do it if we can, but there are other things we want to do first.

 

Did PoE1 has such big issues? I jumped into it around release of WM part1 so it was working just fine by then. I heard it had smooth launch though it might have been put against other Obsidian games which are known to be troublesome.

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How hard is it to add a walk toggle? :blink:

 

Simply adding a button to the UI that toggles between a walk and run animation (assuming there are walk animations for all party members) probably wouldn't take long. Checking all the possible interactions that button might have for bugs will take a lot longer.

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In a Q&A Josh and Dmitri talked about hair styles and clipping issues with helmets and armour. Something seemingly simple, like hair flowing from helmets or other headgear, can have many knock-on effects, and tracking down issues can be a pain, with all the many variations of gear and animations. Maybe walking is similar.

 

I agree it would be a nice feature to have, but as mentioned above, I'm more interested in a balanced and stable game on release.

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In a Q&A Josh and Dmitri talked about hair styles and clipping issues with helmets and armour. Something seemingly simple, like hair flowing from helmets or other headgear, can have many knock-on effects, and tracking down issues can be a pain, with all the many variations of gear and animations. Maybe walking is similar.

 

I agree it would be a nice feature to have, but as mentioned above, I'm more interested in a balanced and stable game on release.

Not comparable though. Helmets are one 3D model, and then the head itself is another 3D model, with the hair being yet another 3D model, and then you have to blend all three of those together.

 

The clipping occurs naturally if you don't have conditions set right, in a perfect world. But you're going to have to code all those variables. Same with swords clipping through capes in pretty much every game out there. No one enjoys coding the sword to not clip and rely on the cape. Or it's been tried and it just doesn't work or looks too weird.

 

The point is.... NPC's start running in reaction when Aloth casts the spell, but they walk normally. Which means that NPC's can both walk and run with no problem, the animation exists. I believe even the Main Character the Companions can Walk, because the Actors (terminology? termonology?) are probably the same. I also seem to recalling your characters walking during some Scenes (Short cut-scenes leading up to dialogue or "some event"). Can't remember exactly though.

 

Or that Adventuring Party that walks past you when you first meet them in Defiance Bay, but when you fight them they run.

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In a Q&A Josh and Dmitri talked about hair styles and clipping issues with helmets and armour. Something seemingly simple, like hair flowing from helmets or other headgear, can have many knock-on effects, and tracking down issues can be a pain, with all the many variations of gear and animations. Maybe walking is similar.

 

I agree it would be a nice feature to have, but as mentioned above, I'm more interested in a balanced and stable game on release.

Not comparable though. Helmets are one 3D model, and then the head itself is another 3D model, with the hair being yet another 3D model, and then you have to blend all three of those together.

 

The clipping occurs naturally if you don't have conditions set right, in a perfect world. But you're going to have to code all those variables. Same with swords clipping through capes in pretty much every game out there. No one enjoys coding the sword to not clip and rely on the cape. Or it's been tried and it just doesn't work or looks too weird.

 

The point is.... NPC's start running in reaction when Aloth casts the spell, but they walk normally. Which means that NPC's can both walk and run with no problem, the animation exists. I believe even the Main Character the Companions can Walk, because the Actors (terminology? termonology?) are probably the same. I also seem to recalling your characters walking during some Scenes (Short cut-scenes leading up to dialogue or "some event"). Can't remember exactly though.

 

Or that Adventuring Party that walks past you when you first meet them in Defiance Bay, but when you fight them they run.

 

Sure, there are walking animations in both PoE and PoE2. In Deadfire it seems that NPC are able to walk, so it is possible that walking as a mechanic is functional and it just needs to be added to PC character. 

 

I am not sure if it existed in that way in PoE. I don't recall seeing anyone "walk" during gameplay. They were in cutscenes but we don't know how cutscenes were programmed. I remember reading interview with CD Project Red where they described how during development of Witcher1 they were creating things in cutscenes, which weren't properly implimented in the game by a sheer creativity and work time. I remember Obsidian mentioning that each "cutscene" in PoE took large amount of work. I assume it wasn't as simple as programing "character X walks from point A to point B." 

 

The usual disclaimer - my programing knowledge is unexistent. I played around with HTML but that's about it. However, even simple changes seem to break games in unexpected ways. It the feature is as simple to impliment as people suggest, I would be shocked if Obsidian wouldn't impliment it as there is clearly a demand for it. I do not know though, what kind of dark magic is happening under PoE hood to make characters move. 

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Here is the thing.  Even if you assume it only takes, say 20 hours, to put walk toggle in game it still isn't worth it.  That 20 hours includes making the toggle, and testing it to make sure there are no glitches as a result.  Trust me, that estimate is very low ball, it would take a full 40 hour work week or longer.

However, that 20 hours that could have been spent quashing bugs, polishing some content that isn't "quite there yet", putting finishing touches on a quest or small event that might get cut otherwise due to time constraints, applying last minute combat balancing, etc etc. instead.

There are simply more valuable things to spend that 20 hours on, that are more beneficial to the most players, than walk toggle.  That is why I don't want it in the game, because I know the vast majority of players wont use it, and it serves no actual gameplay or ease of access purpose.

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Here is the thing.  Even if you assume it only takes, say 20 hours, to put walk toggle in game it still isn't worth it.  That 20 hours includes making the toggle, and testing it to make sure there are no glitches as a result.  Trust me, that estimate is very low ball, it would take a full 40 hour work week or longer.

 

However, that 20 hours that could have been spent quashing bugs, polishing some content that isn't "quite there yet", putting finishing touches on a quest or small event that might get cut otherwise due to time constraints, applying last minute combat balancing, etc etc. instead.

 

There are simply more valuable things to spend that 20 hours on, that are more beneficial to the most players, than walk toggle.  That is why I don't want it in the game, because I know the vast majority of players wont use it, and it serves no actual gameplay or ease of access purpose.

I agree completely. Still, the same argument could've been said about Idle Animations. Or Dynamic Weather. It is the same category. Atmosphere, Immersion, Fluff that doesn't really do anything for the gameplay, but just makes it look, feel, and act prettier and gives a more fullfilling experience.

 

Now, there doesn't need to be a "Button" in the UI. A hotkey in the Options menu. There's plenty of games where there are no "Walk Toggle Button", but there's more often a Hotkey you press, and voila. An "On/Off" Switch.

 

Speaking of which, I'd be surprised if Obsidian hasn't implemented a "Switch/Hotkey" for Idle Animations, seeing that they've invested so much into it. Also, 20-40 hours for a Walking Toggle function? How many hours do you reckon it is for each individual Idle Animation for each companion? Oh, and don't forget there will be options in the Character Creation as well.

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How hard is it to add a walk toggle? :blink:

 

Simply adding a button to the UI that toggles between a walk and run animation (assuming there are walk animations for all party members) probably wouldn't take long. Checking all the possible interactions that button might have for bugs will take a lot lonBet

 

 

How hard is it to add a walk toggle? :blink:

 

 

People wanna get immersed into these worlds.I wonder how much people will have bitched if Skyrim shipped with no walk animations due to Howard deeming it not necessary.

Edited by wolfstriked
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People wanna get immersed into these worlds.I wonder how much people will have bitched if Skyrim shipped with no walk animations due to Howard deeming it not necessary.

 

Honestly? A small number of people would have bitched very loudly; the vast majority of players wouldn't have cared and might not even have noticed (assuming they didn't read the online bitching).

 

In any case, if Obsidian had Skyrim's budget (approximately 10-20 times Deadfire's, back in 2007-2011) then things might be different. But they don't.

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How hard is it to add a walk toggle? :blink:

 

Simply adding a button to the UI that toggles between a walk and run animation (assuming there are walk animations for all party members) probably wouldn't take long. Checking all the possible interactions that button might have for bugs will take a lot lonBet

 

 

How hard is it to add a walk toggle? :blink:

 

 

People wanna get immersed into these worlds.I wonder how much people will have bitched if Skyrim shipped with no walk animations due to Howard deeming it not necessary.

 

wait.... Immersion in Bethesda game? 

 

haha...

 

hahaha...

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

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People wanna get immersed into these worlds.I wonder how much people will have bitched if Skyrim shipped with no walk animations due to Howard deeming it not necessary.

Honestly? A small number of people would have bitched very loudly; the vast majority of players wouldn't have cared and might not even have noticed (assuming they didn't read the online bitching).

 

In any case, if Obsidian had Skyrim's budget (approximately 10-20 times Deadfire's, back in 2007-2011) then things might be different. But they don't.

There is also the fact that Skyrim is a single character game first/third person game designed to play on a controller, where the pressure used on a thumstick indicates how fast you are moving.

 

I still get surprised when people take games so wildly different and compare them as if they have many things in common just because they are both "RPG's".  Skyrim has more in common from a gameplay perspective with Call of Duty than it does Eternity.

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not that i care one way or other, but the only ie game that had running was p:st and it had the worst combat of all those games. how people who complain about walking managed to play those old games is beyond me. It's not that maps are so large that you'd need to run anyway. Even though you'd get boots of speed in bg2, the enemy speed was the same- their speed was set to the walking speed. No wonder there's slow mode in pillars. Again, why was walking as movement abandoned, in bg2 i set the refresh rate so that chars move faster, couldn't Obsidian have given the players something similar but more convenient?

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