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bad design decisions

Ui Backer beta poe sound

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#21
Sensuki

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11. Turning off UI helpers, you have no idea what your characters are doing. The current action icon that is normally over the head of character also needs to be somewhere else on UI (like next to their portrait).


Moving the combat idle animation to recovery time would fix this.
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#22
Gorbag

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@Gorbag The possibility to run from a fight is pret-t-ty crucial for anyone attempting Ironman/Trial of Iron. 

 

 

Yeah, I forgot about the Trial of Iron mode in PoE for a second. I guess it would take some careful scouting now, but even then I'd not try the Trial of Iron on my first playthrough.



#23
PrimeJunta

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Haha, I think you'd  have to have a serious masochistic streak to go with Trial of Iron on a first playthrough. I think it's fairly crucial even for later playthroughs. Even really good players sometimes screw up, and if every fight is to the death it makes things seriously more difficult.



#24
Luckmann

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Haha, I think you'd  have to have a serious masochistic streak to go with Trial of Iron on a first playthrough. I think it's fairly crucial even for later playthroughs. Even really good players sometimes screw up, and if every fight is to the death it makes things seriously more difficult.

 

And forget about trying to set things up with multiple rogues or stealthers, due to all-or-nothing scouting-stealth.

 

Depending on stealthing or tactical deployment from stealth is the last thing anyone doing Trial of Iron should do.



#25
Gorbag

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Not being able to pre-buff or use combat abilities out of combat does not help either. I guess Trial of Iron in PoE would be pretty damn brutal.


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#26
archangel979

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11. Turning off UI helpers, you have no idea what your characters are doing. The current action icon that is normally over the head of character also needs to be somewhere else on UI (like next to their portrait).


Moving the combat idle animation to recovery time would fix this.

Maybe to you. I prefer to see what my characters are doing in a more clear way. BGEE editions have that on character portraits. PoE could have it by putting that action circle also on or next to character portraits.
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#27
Luckmann

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Lack of ammo is the biggest let down for me... I can't imagine any Infinite engine game without ammo and all kinds of stuff to throw (daggers) etc. 
 
Also, when I found out that there are magical wands with infinite ammo I was like WHAT ? Like in Mmorpg ?  Goddammit. 
It was so cool in IE games, that mages had to choose between staffs and something like slingshot. And now it will be only PEWPEWPEW, forever.

Well mages having unlimited simple spells through implements (wands, rods and staffs) is from D&D 4e (which is Sawyer's fav D&D). It is not about wands having infinite ammo but mages wielding them having it.

In 5e they scaled it back a bit and just given wizards infinite cantrips (0 level spells) that are simple attack spells which they can use without anything but their magical power.

 

 

Oh god, that explains so much, and that is absolutely horrifying. D&D 4e is the red-headed stephchild of PnP, the abortion that should never have lived, afterbirth that gestated and was born as a mutant into a world that it hated, and that hated it in turn.


Edited by Luckmann, 19 January 2015 - 03:47 AM.

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#28
PrimeJunta

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I have an almost-unused set of DnD4 books in my shelf. I read them through. I remember thinking they were godawful for a PnP game but might work pretty well on a computer. :)



#29
Sensuki

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Maybe to you. I prefer to see what my characters are doing in a more clear way. BGEE editions have that on character portraits. PoE could have it by putting that action circle also on or next to character portraits.


I'm okay with a recovery bar and action icon UNDER the portrait, but not on it.

And yeah D&D 4E isn't that great for P&P. I've DM'd and played it, and I found combat really boring.

Edited by Sensuki, 19 January 2015 - 03:48 AM.


#30
Cluas

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I find it annoying, that I can't drop any loot i don't want. The inventory/stash also need a sorting function. 

 

The volume sliders, most people want to have more options. But it won't be in the release, perhaps the expansion?

 

I can't run from combat? Don't know, never tried ...

 

I'm very disappointed with the lack of ammunition. This was a "big part" of the mood in IE games...

 

The problem with the combat log and other stuff is taken care of by Bester. He made a mod, that can correct all this :)


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#31
prodigydancer

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everyone unstealths automatically at the start of combat

Ugh. I didn't know things were that bad. PoE is seriously starting to look like a lost cause.

Edited by prodigydancer, 19 January 2015 - 03:58 AM.

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#32
Gladiuss8@gmail.com

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It started to look like that since the beta came out. There are just too many bad design choices for a real IE games succesor.


Edited by Gladiuss8@gmail.com, 19 January 2015 - 04:13 AM.


#33
archangel979

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I find it annoying, that I can't drop any loot i don't want. The inventory/stash also need a sorting function. 
 
The volume sliders, most people want to have more options. But it won't be in the release, perhaps the expansion?
 
I can't run from combat? Don't know, never tried ...
 
I'm very disappointed with the lack of ammunition. This was a "big part" of the mood in IE games...
 
The problem with the combat log and other stuff is taken care of by Bester. He made a mod, that can correct all this original.gif

Expecting modders to fix basic problems of games is wrong attitude. Modders should be adding options and content, not stuff that is expected and basic in other games.
Bester is awesome but he should not be expected to fix stuff OE failed to do.

Edited by archangel979, 19 January 2015 - 04:14 AM.

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#34
Marky

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Lack of ammo is the biggest let down for me... I can't imagine any Infinite engine game without ammo and all kinds of stuff to throw (daggers) etc. 
 
Also, when I found out that there are magical wands with infinite ammo I was like WHAT ? Like in Mmorpg ?  Goddammit. 
It was so cool in IE games, that mages had to choose between staffs and something like slingshot. And now it will be only PEWPEWPEW, forever.

Well mages having unlimited simple spells through implements (wands, rods and staffs) is from D&D 4e (which is Sawyer's fav D&D). It is not about wands having infinite ammo but mages wielding them having it.

In 5e they scaled it back a bit and just given wizards infinite cantrips (0 level spells) that are simple attack spells which they can use without anything but their magical power.

 

Do you have a source for that? All I remember was Sawyer criticizing 4th edition D&D.


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#35
archangel979

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I think it was from some video where he talked about D&D, cba to find it now. If I got it wrong, I apologize to Sawyer in advance.

#36
Quetzalcoatl

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8. Elder name given to animals to present them as stronger when older animals are only weaker. Elder is name give to MAGICAL creatures that become stronger with age like Vampires or Dragons. Lion when old become weak and lose pack leader status (if they even had it, most just become old).

Wouldn't an elder lion be stronger? If they lived so long it means they were strong enough to survive fights with rival pack leaders.


Edited by Quetzalcoatl, 19 January 2015 - 05:08 AM.


#37
archangel979

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8. Elder name given to animals to present them as stronger when older animals are only weaker. Elder is name give to MAGICAL creatures that become stronger with age like Vampires or Dragons. Lion when old become weak and lose pack leader status (if they even had it, most just become old).

Wouldn't an elder lion be stronger? If they lived so long it means they were strong enough to survive fights with rival pack leaders.

NO, it means they are old and weak now. Just like humans, lions also become weaker with old age.

Any by your logic, why do you then run into multiple Elders at one location?

Edited by archangel979, 19 January 2015 - 05:28 AM.


#38
Quetzalcoatl

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8. Elder name given to animals to present them as stronger when older animals are only weaker. Elder is name give to MAGICAL creatures that become stronger with age like Vampires or Dragons. Lion when old become weak and lose pack leader status (if they even had it, most just become old).

Wouldn't an elder lion be stronger? If they lived so long it means they were strong enough to survive fights with rival pack leaders.

 

NO, it means they are old and weak now. Just like humans, lions also become weaker with old age.

Humans don't constantly fight each other to the death. Lions do, so when one lives to achieve a reasonable age, it's an indication of how strong they are to have survived the constant struggle for leadership.

 

Any by your logic, why do you then run into multiple Elders at one location?
Multiple packs of lions.

#39
Gorbag

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Modders should be adding options and content, not stuff that is expected and basic in other games.

Bester is awesome but he should not be expected to fix stuff OE failed to do.

But that's exactly what the mod does. It adds the option to move anything anywhere for those who are not satisfied with the current design. Fixing a problem in PoE would suggest that there is a problem to fix. Currently there is a design choice which some like, some don't care about and some dislike. The mod is there to satisfy the last group of people. I'm not opposed to making the UI customizable, as long as it does not turn into the UI of NWN2 and retains the IE feel. Also I'm not sure how the customizable elements would fit with the solid background (which I plan to use). 

EDIT: That's based on what I've seen of it. I haven't tried the mod personally, as I said, I'm not a BB player.


Edited by Gorbag, 19 January 2015 - 05:41 AM.

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#40
PrimeJunta

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@Gorbag See, according to Archangel, "anything Archangel doesn't like" constitutes an objective flaw and it is therefore incumbent on Obsidian to fix it. The notion of different people having different preferences appears not to figure in his conceptual apparatus.
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