Where are the dungeons?

[yoyolll]

I'm nearing the end of the game now.  I've completed all the side quests, companion quests, and bounties, explored the whole map and visited every location available before the end-game.

 

So far, I really do love the game.  But I've noticed that there are no real dungeons in all of Deadfire.  The closest one was Drowned Barrows, which was still quite small.  I guess you could add in Fort Deadlight and Crookspur if you took the hostile approach at those locations, but those were really small as well.  I found a lot of mini-dungeons and such on the islands that were made up of 4-5 rooms with an item at the end, and that was it.

 

Pillars 1 had Raedric's Hold, Endless Paths, Skaen Temple, Cragholdt Bluffs, Heritage Hill, Durgan's Battery, Flames-That-Whisper, Abbey of the Fallen Moon and probably a few other good ones that I'm forgetting.  The largest dungeons in Deadfire were more similar to the Temple of Eothas in Gilded Vale or the sewers under Defiance Bay.

 

"Dungeon crawling" is not just about the size of the dungeon, but also the set-piece encounters, resource management, and the feeling you get when you finish it and go back out into the world after a long, dangerous adventure, all ready to head back to the inn and turn in quests.

I like how those large dungeons feel like their own little world, each one with it's own theme, different types of enemies you wouldn't see elsewhere, and unique and interesting NPCs.  Plus, leaving it littered with corpses and completely looted is a great feeling.

 

All of these things feel missing from Deadfire.

 

So what happened with the dungeons?  It seems like they chose to forego large dungeons in favor of big cities with lots of buildings and NPCs.  I have to say, as someone who's favorite part of any RPG is dungeon crawling, that's pretty disappointing for me.  I hope the DLCs will add large dungeons.

Edited May 17, 2018 by yoyolll

[daven]

The undercity in Neketaka is alright, but again quite short. I like the design of it, reminds me of New Londo in Dark Souls.

[Dodo00d]

There are no big dungeons in the game, sadly the maps in the game are all small in repeat far too many times. It makes exploration maeaningless since you will allways see the same maps with random enemies.

[Yakmann]

I agree. Since most of the dungeons are so short (some are really just one room), there's no real opportuny for atmosphere to be built. It's usually one level, with an item and/or fight at the end, with maybe 2-3 letters explaining something about the place. These are done in 15-20 minutes, maybe half an hour if you go slow. In the end every dungeon just feels... pointless.

 

Honestly, the Defiance Bay Catacombs had more to offer than every dungeon I found in Deadfire so far, except maybe the Old City. And it's really sad, because the setting for many dungeons is really interesting, like the underwater Engwithan ruin, or Drowned Barrows, or the fortress at Ashen Maw. But because they are all very small and usually only have one goal/one thing to do, they are over and done before any real atmosphere is built.

 

It seems like they took the opposite approach compared to unique items: There are less of them, but they're more fleshed out compared to the first game's uniques; but dungeons we have more, but they're less fleshed out, whereas in Pillars one most dungeons were pretty different, memorable and had several things going on.

[rjshae]

Given the nature of the environment and the culture, I wasn't expecting many dungeons, and especially not many large ones. Islands just aren't good locations for large underground constructions -- there's too much risk of flooding. Instead, the sea is now the dungeon crawl.

[Purudaya]

There are no big dungeons in the game, sadly the maps in the game are all small in repeat far too many times. It makes exploration maeaningless since you will allways see the same maps with random enemies.

I haven't seen any locations aside from perhaps random encounters (and even then, nothing strikes me) that recycle maps. The maps in Deadfire are often small and some inconsequential locations are similar, but I'm pretty sure the majority are unique.

[Big-Ben]

Josh stated that the first game was built directly upon nostalgia which is why so many elements of it are right out of the Infinity Engine games. Pillars 2 is not that. This feels, at least to me, like one of those "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of deals. If Obsidian had simply retread ground again we'd all be complaining that it was just Pillars Redux/Remix. With this scenario Obsidian can do an entirely new environment.

 

And as mentioned above islands don't really mesh with the whole "Evil Dungeon Lair" all too well.

[Judicator]

There are no big dungeons sadly. I have no idea why.

[rjshae]

Perhaps there will be some in the upcoming DLC? How about a giant haunted ship dungeon?

[E.RedMark]

Perhaps there will be some in the upcoming DLC? How about a giant haunted ship dungeon?

but..it's a ship . So not that many level to it no? 

[ThacoBell]

 

Perhaps there will be some in the upcoming DLC? How about a giant haunted ship dungeon?

but..it's a ship . So not that many level to it no? 

 

I'm sure a ghost ship could use some non-euclidean geometries.

[E.RedMark]

 

 

Perhaps there will be some in the upcoming DLC? How about a giant haunted ship dungeon?

but..it's a ship . So not that many level to it no? 

 

I'm sure a ghost ship could use some non-euclidean geometries.

 

they could've done that you know , if I recall ..we do find a couples of wrecked ships . Would've been nice if they were dungeons . 

 

Although..I for one..wish we had Diablo 1 dungeons 

[Voltron]

Agree. Islands are ok, but there is not much on them. I expected some dungeons on islands, like old forgotten cities and caverns, hidden bosses etc. 

While game is great on many aspects it feels quite empty for it's size...

[yoyolll]

Perhaps there will be some in the upcoming DLC? How about a giant haunted ship dungeon?

 

This would be really awesome.  Maybe like a 15th century cruise ship type dungeon or something.

 

Josh stated that the first game was built directly upon nostalgia which is why so many elements of it are right out of the Infinity Engine games. Pillars 2 is not that. This feels, at least to me, like one of those "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" sort of deals. If Obsidian had simply retread ground again we'd all be complaining that it was just Pillars Redux/Remix. With this scenario Obsidian can do an entirely new environment.

 

And as mentioned above islands don't really mesh with the whole "Evil Dungeon Lair" all too well.

 

Yeah, I don't think the Caribbean style setting lends itself to big dungeons, but I still wish they had at least 3 or 4 of them.  Regardless of the setting, I think of dungeons and combat as the "meat" of an RPG, with story still being essential but not necessarily needing as much volume in order to be good (thinking of Icewind Dale 1&2 and Fallout 1&2).

 

Also, dungeons don't have to be literal dungeons.  They could've done, as the poster above mentioned, a massive ship dungeon for example.  Or maybe a jungle, or a skull island type thing.  "Dungeon" in this context really just means a large, interconnected network of dangerous areas filled with enemies, traps, secrets, loot, puzzles, and maybe NPCs and quests, that is separated from the rest of the world (the "overworld"), and that has it's own theme, story, and background.

 

I think Raedric's Hold is an excellent example of a good RPG dungeon.  As a big fan of Icewind Dale, I prefer dungeons on the scale of Endless Paths, but I really would've been happy with 3 or 4 dungeons the size of Raedric's Hold.  Instead, the world is made up of several large quest hubs and some mini-dungeons scattered across the islands.

 

Anyway, I realize everyone has a different idea of what is important in an RPG.  It's just good to see I'm not alone in being disappointed by the lack of dungeons in Deadfire.

Edited May 17, 2018 by yoyolll

[Jayngo]

Ahh, this thread really bums me out. This has been a big worry for me and I'm only 20 hours in. There are no big dungeons. I really don't like that decision and there really is no argument why this is the case; other than they put way too much emphasis on the ship and naval battles. This is disappointing.

[rjshae]

 

Perhaps there will be some in the upcoming DLC? How about a giant haunted ship dungeon?

but..it's a ship . So not that many level to it no?

 

Hence the word 'giant'. If it was built by non-humans, who knows how large it could get? Maybe it's an ancient floating city willed with strange wonders?

[ThacoBell]

The lack of classic "Dungeons" doesn't really bother me. I much prefer outdoor areas, so more done to make "wilderness dungeons" would be nice.

[Purudaya]

The mage tower that Arkemyr sends you out to investigate would have been a great dungeon opportunity. Not all dungeons have to be underground - I would have loved to go up level by level, solving puzzles or skirting traps to get the top, but instead I just fight some guys on the ground floor, search some bookcases, and take the stairs immediately to the roof. The fight up top is a nice surprise, but it would've been even better if I'd had to really work to get there.

I love this game in general (Neketaka in particular is the closest thing I've seen to a big city done right since BG2) but the amount of genuinely interesting quests is kind of belied by their short length and the size of their 'scenes.' The DLCs at least sound like they're adding large chunks of single-location content, so hopefully we'll get some dungeons then.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Purudaya

[Sedrefilos]

Well, that pirate island fortress whose name escapes my right now was something similar to Raedric's Hold. It was a nice dungeon style area, big with many approaches and outcomes. Apart from that I too haven't found any "big" dungeon yet, though some smaller ones were not bad. I'd like to have one or two larger scale dungeons but I can live without them if the rest of the game is good.

[VincentNZ]

Ahh, this thread really bums me out. This has been a big worry for me and I'm only 20 hours in. There are no big dungeons. I really don't like that decision and there really is no argument why this is the case; other than they put way too much emphasis on the ship and naval battles. This is disappointing.

 Old city is likely the biggest dungeon with three levels and quite extensive areas per layer. I would say there is a dungeon missing similar to the watcher's keep and the endless stairs, a dungeon that takes a couple of hours to go through with hard fights, riddles and bosses.

What I certainly do not miss though are dungeons that tire me with long fights against trash mobs and bullet sponges for every room. However, with the current difficulty issues I think the current approach of three-room-dungeons with a boss is not helpful either.

I think though it is hard to please the crowd, the setting naturally allowed for smaller dungeons and the hunt for special characters, like famous captains, sea monsters, slavers and whatnot. Added to that you have dozens of islands and islets with their own environments ranging form crazy new stuff to the traditional. The possibilities are endless. And you can rightfully say that if you expected this all, Obsidian did not deliver. However, naturally this sheer amount of content can not be created with the optimal amount of content. Yeah you could have ships with three levels and multi-stage ship fights, as an example, but with 30 or so ships on the map this would get just as stale. As doing Firkraags Dungeon in BG2 for 45 minutes, and that was one of the best multi-stage dungeons.

 

Edit: THough one has to remember that the Watcher's Keep came available with Throne of Bhaal, so we might see something similar with the DLCs. Not saying that there will be a full expansion, or a really huge dungeon, but we should expect something to deepen the game experience that we have now, be it sea monsters or bigger ships or whatnot.

Edited May 17, 2018 by VincentNZ

[Gfted1]

What about an island, with a dormant volcano, that has a dungeon inside?   /Dr. Evil

[Jayngo]

 

Ahh, this thread really bums me out. This has been a big worry for me and I'm only 20 hours in. There are no big dungeons. I really don't like that decision and there really is no argument why this is the case; other than they put way too much emphasis on the ship and naval battles. This is disappointing.

 Old city is likely the biggest dungeon with three levels and quite extensive areas per layer. I would say there is a dungeon missing similar to the watcher's keep and the endless stairs, a dungeon that takes a couple of hours to go through with hard fights, riddles and bosses.

What I certainly do not miss though are dungeons that tire me with long fights against trash mobs and bullet sponges for every room. However, with the current difficulty issues I think the current approach of three-room-dungeons with a boss is not helpful either.

I think though it is hard to please the crowd, the setting naturally allowed for smaller dungeons and the hunt for special characters, like famous captains, sea monsters, slavers and whatnot. Added to that you have dozens of islands and islets with their own environments ranging form crazy new stuff to the traditional. The possibilities are endless. And you can rightfully say that if you expected this all, Obsidian did not deliver. However, naturally this sheer amount of content can not be created with the optimal amount of content. Yeah you could have ships with three levels and multi-stage ship fights, as an example, but with 30 or so ships on the map this would get just as stale. As doing Firkraags Dungeon in BG2 for 45 minutes, and that was one of the best multi-stage dungeons.

 

Edit: THough one has to remember that the Watcher's Keep came available with Throne of Bhaal, so we might see something similar with the DLCs. Not saying that there will be a full expansion, or a really huge dungeon, but we should expect something to deepen the game experience that we have now, be it sea monsters or bigger ships or whatnot.

 

Great point about Watcher's Keep; forgot that was with ToB. I really hope one of these DLCs is something like that.

 

With regard to Firkraag.....I will never, ever, ever forget that quest. Greatness at it's pinnacle. 

[yoyolll]

I finished the game tonight. Explored the whole map, did all available quests and bounties. For those wondering, Drowned Barrows is the closest thing to a dungeon in Deadfire.

 

Loved the game overall, but I found this to be a major flaw.

[Teacher]

Oathbinder's Sanctum is about 4 floors deep, there's that. But it doesn't take very long. 

[ILive66Failed]

man, I was feeling this way too and now you've confirmed it. feel like I'm playing the last act of Divinity 2 with all the putzing around in city districts I've been doing, talking with off-brand italians about instantly resolved nonsense. what a bummer. really hope DLCs bolster the selection, at the very least.

 

really love the foundation of the game, but seems like the content is very low.