The Ship combat thread

[Odoakar]

I'm pondering writting a negative review of this game just due to how bad ship to ship combat is. It feels so badly implemented and out of place in game like this.

 

I had fights where I would chase the enemy ship for 10 turns or more, trying to hit it, missing, going left, going right, and then after 15minutes instead of trying to sink them, they board you and you are 4v20 and die in 2 seconds...like who thought this system through, who though this would be fun?

 

This game so far is miles belowed PoE. Right now I'd almost call it a bad game.

 

Some other irks:

- hate the narrator

- hate the stupid english-italian accent

- hate the inclusion of unknown words that you constanly have to hover to see what the NPC is talking about

- hate the rations ship system

 

 

[daven]

I'm pondering writting a negative review of this game just due to how bad ship to ship combat is. It feels so badly implemented and out of place in game like this.

 

I had fights where I would chase the enemy ship for 10 turns or more, trying to hit it, missing, going left, going right, and then after 15minutes instead of trying to sink them, they board you and you are 4v20 and die in 2 seconds...like who thought this system through, who though this would be fun?

 

This game so far is miles belowed PoE. Right now I'd almost call it a bad game.

 

Some other irks:

- hate the narrator

- hate the stupid english-italian accent

- hate the inclusion of unknown words that you constanly have to hover to see what the NPC is talking about

- hate the rations ship system

I haven't done ship combat yet so can't comment, however what stupid english-italian accent? The narrator?

 

It's American.

[MrHoot]

I think the ship to ship combat could have done with a better tutorial but it just sounds to me like you don't grasp what's going on there. You can win any sea battle by doing the following

 

• Approach until in gun range (you should know the range of your guns)
•  
• Move to port or starboard to get "side on" with the enemy vessel
•  
• Hold position for a turn then fire your guns.
•  
• "Jibe" (which is basically a 180 turn)
•  
• Hold position then fire your other guns
•  
• Rinse and repeat the last 2 steps until the enemy vessel is destroyed

Also enemy vessels have a "difficulty" rating, if you're attacking one with skulls attached to it, you aren't ready.

 

If you're really threatening to leave a bad review because you had to hover the mouse over a word that was new to you (and might I add, that adds to the immersion of the game considerably) or because you don't like the accent of the voice actors then, good Sir, I put it to you that your review might not be worth anything at all.

 

EDIT:- Also, never read Dune. Because then...*gasp*...you'd have to turn all the way to the end of the book and look up some made up words in a glossary when you needed to be reminded what they meant!

Edited May 12, 2018 by MrHoot

[PsychoBlonde]

I actually like the food and water system for the ship, but honestly, there's no point to the ship combat other than to be long, tedious, and annoying.  You're better off just closing to board and fighting the enemy crew directly.  There aren't enough different levels of upgrades and alternatives to make the system interesting, so I just default to "get it over with as quickly as possible".

 

I also dislike that everything is phrased in terms of "gives X inspiration" or "gives Y affliction" . . . wouldn't it just be faster to say "-4 Resolve" than to have a different damn affliction and inspiration for EVERYTHING that you have to mouse over to be reminded of what the heck they actually do?!

 

I've tried with both games but I find myself completely unable to interest myself in the combat system because of this.  And it's not a general dislike for "crunchy bits" systems, either, I've been playing RPG's, both computer and pen and paper, vastly more complex than this one, for decades.

[Zeitzbach]

 

I'm pondering writting a negative review of this game just due to how bad ship to ship combat is. It feels so badly implemented and out of place in game like this.

 

I had fights where I would chase the enemy ship for 10 turns or more, trying to hit it, missing, going left, going right, and then after 15minutes instead of trying to sink them, they board you and you are 4v20 and die in 2 seconds...like who thought this system through, who though this would be fun?

 

This game so far is miles belowed PoE. Right now I'd almost call it a bad game.

 

Some other irks:

- hate the narrator

- hate the stupid english-italian accent

- hate the inclusion of unknown words that you constanly have to hover to see what the NPC is talking about

- hate the rations ship system

I haven't done ship combat yet so can't comment, however what stupid english-italian accent? The narrator?

 

It's American.

 

 

I think the OP is talking about the valian accept. BELFETTO MAL DIFICO BACO HACO.

 

It's something you will get used to after a few hours and you will no longer however them. It adds to their culture just like in PoE 1 when you have Pallegina talking and people love it because it's unique.

 

And ship combat gets better when you actually have crews, side kick and more companions as the game will throw in the stronger members on yourself to help you out. Your ship is just a small ship that was recently repaired. no reason to try to go to battle with a bunch of weak crews and gears. Even the prologue ship rekt you.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Zeitzbach

[PsychoBlonde]

 

I'm pondering writting a negative review of this game just due to how bad ship to ship combat is. It feels so badly implemented and out of place in game like this.

 

I had fights where I would chase the enemy ship for 10 turns or more, trying to hit it, missing, going left, going right, and then after 15minutes instead of trying to sink them, they board you and you are 4v20 and die in 2 seconds...like who thought this system through, who though this would be fun?

 

This game so far is miles belowed PoE. Right now I'd almost call it a bad game.

 

Some other irks:

- hate the narrator

- hate the stupid english-italian accent

- hate the inclusion of unknown words that you constanly have to hover to see what the NPC is talking about

- hate the rations ship system

I haven't done ship combat yet so can't comment, however what stupid english-italian accent? The narrator?

 

It's American.

 

 

Valians have a quasi-Italian accent.

[daven]

Right ok, yeah fair enough.

[PsychoBlonde]

I think the ship to ship combat could have done with a better tutorial but it just sounds to me like you don't grasp what's going on there. You can win any sea battle by doing the following

 

• Approach until in gun range (you should know the range of your guns)
•  
• Move to port or starboard to get "side on" with the enemy vessel
•  
• Hold position for a turn then fire your guns.
•  
• "Jibe" (which is basically a 180 turn)
•  
• Hold position then fire your other guns
•  
• Rinse and repeat the last 2 steps until the enemy vessel is destroyed

Also enemy vessels have a "difficulty" rating, if you're attacking one with skulls attached to it, you aren't ready.

 

If you're really threatening to leave a bad review because you had to hover the mouse over a word that was new to you (and might I add, that adds to the immersion of the game considerably) or because you don't like the accent of the voice actors then, good Sir, I put it to you that your review might not be worth anything at all.

 

The enemy ship has quite a good chance of sinking you first when doing this if they have more hull health than you do--in fact, you will probably take more damage this way than you will just closing to board, not to mention the numerous random effects that can destroy your resources if you're unlucky.

 

There's nothing INTERESTING about the system, it's degenerate.  Enemy ships won't surrender, you can't take ships as prizes or ransom prisoners, so the enemy ship just fights to the death every time.  All you can do in ship combat is sink them, so the only question is "what's the most efficient way to accomplish this".

 

[MrHoot]

 

I think the ship to ship combat could have done with a better tutorial but it just sounds to me like you don't grasp what's going on there. You can win any sea battle by doing the following

 

• Approach until in gun range (you should know the range of your guns)
•  
• Move to port or starboard to get "side on" with the enemy vessel
•  
• Hold position for a turn then fire your guns.
•  
• "Jibe" (which is basically a 180 turn)
•  
• Hold position then fire your other guns
•  
• Rinse and repeat the last 2 steps until the enemy vessel is destroyed

Also enemy vessels have a "difficulty" rating, if you're attacking one with skulls attached to it, you aren't ready.

 

If you're really threatening to leave a bad review because you had to hover the mouse over a word that was new to you (and might I add, that adds to the immersion of the game considerably) or because you don't like the accent of the voice actors then, good Sir, I put it to you that your review might not be worth anything at all.

 

The enemy ship has quite a good chance of sinking you first when doing this if they have more hull health than you do--in fact, you will probably take more damage this way than you will just closing to board, not to mention the numerous random effects that can destroy your resources if you're unlucky.

 

There's nothing INTERESTING about the system, it's degenerate.  Enemy ships won't surrender, you can't take ships as prizes or ransom prisoners, so the enemy ship just fights to the death every time.  All you can do in ship combat is sink them, so the only question is "what's the most efficient way to accomplish this".

 

 

 

I didn't say it was interesting, I just provided a method of winning seas battles. I've won every battle so far...in my 40 hours or so with the game that's about 15 battles. Against ships with as much as 1/3 more hull points than mine. I've won EVERY battle. No trouble. Partly because the AI doesn't seem to be very good at knowing when to fire it's cannons.

 

And to be honest, in the early stages this is MORE time efficient than fighting a boarding battle with a low level party.

 

EDIT:- Also, picking up Wyrmtongue Cannons makes fights trivial as they also set fires on the enemy deck which gives the AI a fit and has them reassigning crew and putting out fires instead of firing their cannons.

Edited May 12, 2018 by MrHoot

[Karkarov]

The ship combat sucks, until you learn how it actually works, get a good crew, and master it.  Like I said in another post, I have sunk galleons with the starter ship, and did it fairly quickly, (maybe 8 minutes).

There is no real tutorial for it, which is a problem.  But the key things are this -

• Level your crew, your crew is actually the most important aspect of winning ship battles.  High rank crew members in their positions will simply be better at everything.  Shoot more accurately, reload faster, more likely to catch the wind, increase your odds to not suffer side effects like flooding, etc etc.  Best way to level your crew?  Take on small ships like other sloops or voyagers.  Do not ram to board, as this reduces your rewards and crew exp.

 

• Get better guns, and specialize them!  The starter guns suck, BAD.  Get either guns that are really close range, or really long range.  Try to maximum their damage.  Learn to stay at the hairy edge of your optimum range (like a 600 max gun stay at 550), but outside your enemies optimum range.

 

• Learn how to time your jibes/full stops/repair orders/brace commands to maximum effect.  There is no point in bracing if your enemy still needs two rounds to reload, never do a full stop unless you are firing the next turn, etc. etc.

 

• Fire at the sails first using chainshot.  You break their sails they basically can't move, which means you can force optimum shooting conditions for the rest of the battle and they cant run. force close, or try to escape.

You do those four things and ship combat will be a lot more fun, easier, and faster.

[Sceptenar]

 

Valians have a quasi-Italian accent.

 

 

It's a mix of italian and occitan actually.

[Wormerine]

I also dislike that everything is phrased in terms of "gives X inspiration" or "gives Y affliction" . . . wouldn't it just be faster to say "-4 Resolve" than to have a different damn affliction and inspiration for EVERYTHING that you have to mouse over to be reminded of what the heck they actually do?!

 

While it can be tedious, it is presented this way because the system works this way - inspiration and afflictions of the same attribute cancel each other.

[PangaeaACDC]

The ship combat sucks, until you learn how it actually works, get a good crew, and master it.  Like I said in another post, I have sunk galleons with the starter ship, and did it fairly quickly, (maybe 8 minutes).

 

There is no real tutorial for it, which is a problem.  But the key things are this -

• Get better guns, and specialize them!  The starter guns suck, BAD.  Get either guns that are really close range, or really long range.  Try to maximum their damage.  Learn to stay at the hairy edge of your optimum range (like a 600 max gun stay at 550), but outside your enemies optimum range.

You do those four things and ship combat will be a lot more fun, easier, and faster.

 

Excellent post, and this is pretty much what I have ended up doing too. Must say I'm a bit surprised at all the negative feedback about ship-to-ship combat. I like it quite a lot so far. Ships behave differently and this mini-game has more tactics to it than normal combat (too easy).

 

As for the guns, I picked up two iron thunderers early, got a few more in battles, and am now sporting 3 iron thunderers plus a special one from the first game (sort of). Maybe these don't count as the "starter guns", but they have proved very good so far. Especially if you can stay in that magic area between 400 and 500m and the other ship have the nosehogs with 150-400m range. They can still hit you, but not as often.

 

Have enjoyed this part of the game a great deal so far, and have quite experienced (starting) crew as well now. The main downside is that I wish repairs happened quicker, especially when in port. Haven't taken on 3-skull ships or crazy stuff like that, but did sink a 120-hull health ship with my puny 60-healther, which was a lot of fun (they attacked me actually).

 

Obsidian should definitely make a better tutorial for this though, and ideally make some things more intuitive. The first 1-2 times we're kind of hitting out in the dark, probably making many mistakes (like trying to close distance with the ships side-to-back, meaning you don't close distance but just move parallel).

Edited May 12, 2018 by PangaeaACDC

[Wormerine]

Have enjoyed this part of the game a great deal so far, and have quite experienced (starting) crew as well now. The main downside is that I wish repairs happened quicker, especially when in port.

Finally saved up for a galleon. Wow, this thing hits hard, and has trouble manouvering.

 

Don’t ships automatically heal up when you dock into the port, as long as you have enough resources? Same with crew injuries? I didn’t take enough damage to test it, but that’s how it worked in the beta.

[Sedrefilos]

Ship combat can be intense... when it starts. Problem is you have to spend a couple of rounds running on the opponent ship before reaching fire range. 

[269811510]

Surely ship combat without sea monsters should be bad combat.

[PangaeaACDC]

 

Have enjoyed this part of the game a great deal so far, and have quite experienced (starting) crew as well now. The main downside is that I wish repairs happened quicker, especially when in port.

Finally saved up for a galleon. Wow, this thing hits hard, and has trouble manouvering.

 

Don’t ships automatically heal up when you dock into the port, as long as you have enough resources? Same with crew injuries? I didn’t take enough damage to test it, but that’s how it worked in the beta.

 

Think I was on a normal island at the time, so it's possible it works differently there. Not a 'real' port/city, so maybe uses the slow 1 repair per day or whatever it is. I was strolling around the island doing bits and pieces, and saw the -1 repair notification in the top right of the screen now and then.

 

Closing in on a ship is usuallyl done in 1-2 turns (what's up with this backwards rounds/turns thing?), which takes maybe 30 seconds. Not a big deal really. The more frustrating part is if a ship tries to outrun you to get away. This succeeded once, because I was far away due to ideal range, and they just up and left before I could turn around and close in. Caught them right after of course (on main overview map), but magically their hull was at full health again, which ours most decidedly was not Still sunk them though

Edited May 12, 2018 by PangaeaACDC

[InsaneCommander]

• Learn how to time your jibes/full stops/repair orders/brace commands to maximum effect.  There is no point in bracing if your enemy still needs two rounds to reload, never do a full stop unless you are firing the next turn, etc. etc.

 

I did this by luck/instinct in my first combat. I really enjoyed it. I know the first battle is not supposed to be difficult, but it felt good

 

 

Excellent post, and this is pretty much what I have ended up doing too. Must say I'm a bit surprised at all the negative feedback about ship-to-ship combat. I like it quite a lot so far. Ships behave differently and this mini-game has more tactics to it than normal combat (too easy).

 

I really like ship combat. It surprises me too.

[DCParry]

I agree the ship combat is terrible. 

 

As to the other complaints from the OP, they are silly. 

 

I also just noticed that Enemy weapons in ship combat don't seem to follow range restrictions. I got some long range guns and was sitting at 561 m and a couple of my crew members got crippled from the enemies 400m range guns. 

[PangaeaACDC]

Think that has to do with the modifiers from distance. The other ship will have worse odds than with ideal distance, but they can still hit. If you hover over the icon for the cannon blast in the middle of the screen, you can see the various modifiers. Especially if they had a Stop turn before firing, they have still have half-decent odds.

 

It may not be supposed to work like that of course, in which case it should be sorted.

 

In one fight I had a nose-hog and iron thunderer on one side of the ship, and fired both from 450m or so. Naturally the odds on the nose hog (150-400m range) was worse, but it was still 40% or something like that, so can definitely hit.

[Karkarov]

I agree the ship combat is terrible. 

 

As to the other complaints from the OP, they are silly. 

 

I also just noticed that Enemy weapons in ship combat don't seem to follow range restrictions. I got some long range guns and was sitting at 561 m and a couple of my crew members got crippled from the enemies 400m range guns. 

Cannon can be fired regardless of their optimum range, they are just far more likely to miss.  It gets nasty with the real high end ships though, I ran into one where they had 350 meter range guns, and still hit me at 550 meters 50% of the time.  All because the gunners were all expert except for one.

[Jayngo]

I'm not hating ship combat or the narrator at all. With that said, I appreciate that Obsidian is trying to change up the old, tried and true CRPG system of one big world map with tiny maps you go point to point from. Something like this ship combat is completely new to "Infinity Engine" type games.

 

I'm 12 hours in and have defeated all three ships I have fought. I have bought so new cannons and completely have a full crew with a few extras. Everyone is placed where they should be on the ship. A post above was something I never ever tried yet; using the chain shot on the sails! Totally forgot about this type of tactic.

 

Anyway, I don't know if I like Deadfire better than PoE yet. I need to complete the game. I'm still getting used to the world map exploration stuff. It feels like I'm on the world map a lot in this game, moving a cursor a lot, and coming across maybe one "dungeon/map" per island I visit. I'm hoping some of the Deadfire is more populated than just Neketaka.

[tiamatbubbles]

Came to respectfully disagree with the premise of the thread - stayed for the primo ship combat tips!

Cheers

[PangaeaACDC]

Apart from one test I haven't really used the mentioned tactic of taking out the sails (though sometimes normal cannonfire hit the sails anyway). But I have used the third ammo type (forget the name now) where you target the crew. Pretty effective in taking the crew out of combat, meaning they need to get healed up. If they have nobody to man the battle stations, they can't fire at you either.

 

Probably not as effective against huge ships though, as they have too many crew to replace the injured ones.

 

Generally I just hit the hull because it's pretty fast.

[Whitewolfsp]

My only problem with ship combat is , if you reduce the crew of the enemy ship to lets say 2 and you board the ship , there is 15 guys waiting for you and they all target the MC , i die before i can move lol