Rangers bad again?

[Falk Schütze]

Gunhawk, Bonus:

+20% Range with Arquebus (14,4m), Blunderbuss (4,8m), Hand Mortar (6,0m) and Pistol (9,6m) attacks > Devs, why does the 'Sharpshooter' not have this as well ???

80% chance to Interrupt target with Arquebus, Hand Mortar and Pistol attacks (Im OK with this)

20% chance to Interrupt target with Blunderbuss attacks (Im OK with this)

 

Gunhawk, Penalty:

none (Im OK with this)

 

Sharpshooter, Bonus:

15% Hits converted to Crits against > 4m distance targets (= +3,75% damage IF scoring a Hit, crits do +25% damage and have 1,5x Penetration)

+1 Penetration against ≤ 4m distance targets

 

Sharpshooter, Penalty:

-10 Deflection (Ouch, but if several actually useful bonuses were added for ranged weapons, like increased range, better ranged recovery speed, Id be OK with this)

-10% Recovery speed (= -10% Damage penalty for Grazes / Crits, -6,25% Damage penalty for Hits) > Devs, please remove this, at least for ranged weapons. Why is my Sharpshooter slower than a Wizard with ranged weapons. Does he have a physical disability ??? If at all, he should be faster with ranged weapons !!!

 

Conclusion:

- dont take Sharpshooter subclass that effectively receives a big damage penalty for using ranged weapons until Devs fix it

- dont take Ghost Heart subclass as its pet is summoned without active AI every single cast until Devs fix it

- dont take Stalker subclass if you dont like to constantly pause and click around the battlefield until Devs fix it

- dont take Ranger in general as one of the companions will be superior to you and you will get mad at it when the time comes until Devs fix the Ranger in general, it is currently broken

[Boeroer]

I again want to point you guys towards Evasive Fire which I find to be very, very useful. No thoughts about it?

 

I didn't try yet if it works with Sneak Attack and Deathblows...

[JFutral]

Gunhawk, Bonus:

+20% Range with Arquebus (14,4m), Blunderbuss (4,8m), Hand Mortar (6,0m) and Pistol (9,6m) attacks > Devs, why does the 'Sharpshooter' not have this as well ???

80% chance to Interrupt target with Arquebus, Hand Mortar and Pistol attacks (Im OK with this)

20% chance to Interrupt target with Blunderbuss attacks (Im OK with this)

 

Gunhawk, Penalty:

none (Im OK with this)

 

Sharpshooter, Bonus:

15% Hits converted to Crits against > 4m distance targets (= +3,75% damage IF scoring a Hit, crits do +25% damage and have 1,5x Penetration)

+1 Penetration against ≤ 4m distance targets

 

Sharpshooter, Penalty:

-10 Deflection (Ouch, but if several actually useful bonuses were added for ranged weapons, like increased range, better ranged recovery speed, Id be OK with this)

-10% Recovery speed (= -10% Damage penalty for Grazes / Crits, -6,25% Damage penalty for Hits) > Devs, please remove this, at least for ranged weapons. Why is my Sharpshooter slower than a Wizard with ranged weapons. Does he have a physical disability ??? If at all, he should be faster with ranged weapons !!!

 

Conclusion:

- dont take Sharpshooter subclass that effectively receives a big damage penalty for using ranged weapons until Devs fix it

- dont take Ghost Heart subclass as its pet is summoned without active AI every single cast until Devs fix it

- dont take Stalker subclass if you dont like to constantly pause and click around the battlefield until Devs fix it

- dont take Ranger in general as one of the companions will be superior to you and you will get mad at it when the time comes until Devs fix the Ranger in general, it is currently broken

 

I agree with most of this actually. I just don't agree with the conclusions. I think the ranger is a great deal of fun. So, play a ranger. If you don't enjoy it, don't play it anymore and don't expect it to become something it obviously is not intended to be, such as a non-pet class. That's just silly to expect that. It's not an archer, it is a ranger. That's like complaining about swimming because you get wet. Pointless.

 

However, I do think part of the problem is the devs overbearing philosophy of "balance". None of the classes are truly specialists in anything, they just get a few extra perks that others don't. Anyone can be a spell caster, you just need enough Arcana to read a scroll. Anyone can be a "thief", You just need enough mechanics to pick locks and set/disarm traps and enough athleticism to climb. Anyone can wield a sword.

 

Now, every class has their own "mana" pool for skills that I would think should be intrinsically available always because, that's what a Barbarian does, yell. All those things that make particular classes special get ironed out to near oblivion. I really want a spellcaster that is a specialist at spell casting. I don't need my wizard to have to choose weapons to fill in when their spells run out. I need them to be able to cast spells like no other class can.

 

I get the whole benefits/malus philosophy, even if I don't agree with it, or at least I don't always agree with how it is implemented. So, I agree that throwing in a malus on something that is supposed to be the whole point in specializing makes zero sense.

 

In a very real sense, PoE already had multi-classes when all the classes could crossover without penalty. That's part of what makes soloing possible in this game. You don't _have_ to have a thief in the party to pick locks and deal with traps. You don't _have_ to have a wizard to cast magic missiles or a priest to cast bless. 

 

I get it that the devs want a game that anyone can play regardless of experience in either RPGs, CRPGs, or even the whole fantasy genre. But there should be some switch for those of us who don't have a problem with that beyond just making the fights and enemies harder to kill. When I could play PoE 1 with a party with all their stats at 10, that showed me there really is no specialists. This has been my major complaint about PoE overall. 

 

So when PoE has a class that actually has something that makes it unique against all the other classes, in this case the non-optional animal companions, I'm cool with that. At least there is something that it has that no other class has. I think this is a large part of the draw of PoE Ciphers and Monks. At least they have abilities or skills that other classes can't co-opt. I just wish I liked playing ciphers and monks more. But since I don't like them, I just don't play them. It really isn't hard.

 

 

But I really agree that the malus for a subclass ranger should not come at the expense of their specialty. Think about what makes a sharpshooter a better shot. Maybe they can't wear bulky armor (In this case, I really like the DnD idea of a ranger having restrictions). Maybe they can't wear certain helmets. You get the idea. There are other ways to balance things out that make more sense.

 

That's all I have to say about this any more, because I really do enjoy the ranger. It is still one of my top three classes of choice, druid and rogue rounding that out. Although my affection for rogue is still more sentimentally about wanting the rogue to be a thief specialist, which it clearly isn't in this universe.

 

Joe

Edited May 14, 2018 by JFutral

[Michael_Galt]

I think my biggest disappointment is the amount of range damage and range skills you can acquire when picking the ranger. You have literally zero AoE options which would be fine if you had a lot of single DPS to compensate, but you don't even have that. You don't even have access to any generic charm beast spells or something like that, imo the class has too many utility pet skills which are all required to make the pet usable like heal pet, rez pet, masters call and so on, but they all provide no damage. Personally I think these spells should be automatically gained when leveling up as a ranger and therefor get replaced with more "fun" skills, like actually buffing your pet or any other summoned animal to do more damage and the whole generic skills we know and love about rangers in other RPGS.

 

The whole tree is riddled with skills which are all required to provide QOL to the pet handling but offer little in return. Either buff the pet to absurd numbers to make it worthwhile or change something about the skills.

 

I'm not going to lie, I very much enjoyed playing as my ranger. 

 

That being said, I do agree that most of those "Pet Companion Abilities" should just be given to you automatically at certain levels.  There should be better abilities, like paladin/barbarian/fighter abilities which you could give your pet.  Like the barbarian leap, blinding attacks, etc.  I mean, master's call and takedown are perfect examples.  Those should be abilities you pay for, but there should be options which allow your pet to be much more effective (constant recovery, immunity to engagement, defensive mode, etc.).

 

It would be great if rangers could select "racial enemies" like in D&D.  Pick xuarips, undead, langear... etc.  Paladins get auras and exaltations, barbarians get massive damage bonuses, fighters get constant recovery and stances and engagement, rogues get backstab, rangers should get "tactical targeting", where they get bonuses and give bonuses if they are attacking the same enemy as another ally.  I understand that happens to some extent with their animal companion abilities, I mean that it should also apply to their kith companions.  Maybe make the bonuses lower if it isn't the animal companion. 

 

But it does seem like their ability to cause damage is generically lower.  Why can't rangers get an ability to apply poison to their weapons, or for their ranged attacks to cause knockdown or stagger or something like that? 

[Rhonto]

Ghost Heart is my favorite option for rangers, and it's probably the most viable ranger subclass right now. Simply because it offers the option to eliminate the pet from the equation and spares you the trouble of dealing with the consequences of bonded grief in addition to saving you from having to micromanage a pet that's going to die immediately without your constant supervision. Sharpshooter sounded interesting, and wanting to play a ranged DPS it might seems like the obvious choice, but it's utter ****. Because here's the thing about wanting to play an effective ranged DPS. You're going to want to MIN/MAX your stats. You're going to tank your defensive attributes and boost the ever-loving **** out of your offensive ones. Trouble is, this is going to make your pet squishy as ****, which means it's going to die constantly. Which means you're going to be suffering bonded grief constantly. Which means you're going to be an ineffective piece of ****. So, what's the alternative? Don't MIN/MAX? Build defensively and suffer the reduced DPS potential that comes with having low offensive attributes? Or, spend loads of skill points investing in skills that increase your pets survivability, also resulting in lower DPS potential because you're passing up skills that directly increase your damage? Either works, except for the fact that they don't! Because unless you are doing both, your pet is still going to die! But surprise, there's no point in doing both! Because having a pet that can survive a typical POTD encounter isn't worth you bringing a ranger that's going to contribute ZERO to a fight besides an unkillable pet that your enemies can just ignore!

 

That said, I am intrigued by the idea of a pet-based ranger and after this ghost heart play-through I fully intend to try a melee-stalker build. Possibly stalker/monk. 

[Falk Schütze]

I love the added pet and management and would like to play as s single class Sharpshooter but the animal companion levels on the same level for single and multiclass Rangers so the power level advantage of playing a single class Ranger goes down the drain. That and the subclasses are ALL broken in some way. The Ghost AI is bugged, the Sharpshooter cannot 'sharpshoot' and the Stalker needs constant micro management.

 

Some of the pets are much better than others (I made a guide on Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1384851536 ). On top of all that one of the companions has a unique subclass that is the only actually working Ranger subclass and also sports a uniqe pet. Why are there no high level (Power Level 8 / 9) abilities that add exotic pets like dinosaurs (Raptor) or dragons as animal companions. That would make a single class Ranger worthwhile.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Falk Schütze

[Vaneglorious]

Would be cool if there were ranged pets.

[GuyNice]

Some of the pets are much better than others (I made a guide on Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1384851536 ). On top of all that one of the companions has a unique subclass that is the only actually working Ranger subclass and also sports a uniqe pet. Why are there no high level (Power Level 8 / 9) abilities that add exotic pets like dinosaurs (Raptor) or dragons as animal companions. That would make a single class Ranger worthwhile.

Thanks for writing the guide, I was looking for some info like that. Can you add Ishiza (Maia's hawk)? I was a little disappointed with his damage output and decided to just spec out of the pet damage passives as a result. I hope there are decent damage dealing pets, I'm already theorycrafting my next main character :D

[JFutral]

I love the added pet and management and would like to play as s single class Sharpshooter but the animal companion levels on the same level for single and multiclass Rangers so the power level advantage of playing a single class Ranger goes down the drain. That and the subclasses are ALL broken in some way. The Ghost AI is bugged, the Sharpshooter cannot 'sharpshoot' and the Stalker needs constant micro management.

 

Some of the pets are much better than others (I made a guide on Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1384851536 ). On top of all that one of the companions has a unique subclass that is the only actually working Ranger subclass and also sports a uniqe pet. Why are there no high level (Power Level 8 / 9) abilities that add exotic pets like dinosaurs (Raptor) or dragons as animal companions. That would make a single class Ranger worthwhile.

 

Or even pets being influenced by character origin, like Sagani's arctic fox.

 

Joe

[Falk Schütze]

 

Some of the pets are much better than others (I made a guide on Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1384851536 ). On top of all that one of the companions has a unique subclass that is the only actually working Ranger subclass and also sports a uniqe pet. Why are there no high level (Power Level 8 / 9) abilities that add exotic pets like dinosaurs (Raptor) or dragons as animal companions. That would make a single class Ranger worthwhile.

Thanks for writing the guide, I was looking for some info like that. Can you add Ishiza (Maia's hawk)? I was a little disappointed with his damage output and decided to just spec out of the pet damage passives as a result. I hope there are decent damage dealing pets, I'm already theorycrafting my next main character :D

 

 

I have restartitis and never made it past the first island, 75 hours played.

[Falk Schütze]

Would be cool if there were ranged pets.

 

Id like a fire spitting silver pseudo dragon.

[Falk Schütze]

Updated the Guide with Ishiza. Its vastly superior to all regular animal companions. Small model, more damage than Wolf. Cannot be engaged / flanked / disangagement attacked.

[GuyNice]

Updated the Guide with Ishiza. Its vastly superior to all regular animal companions. Small model, more damage than Wolf. Cannot be engaged / flanked / disangagement attacked.

Thank you! That is quite disappointing however. I felt like Ishiza was attacking so slowly and weakly compared to what I remember pets doing in PoE. If this is the best as far as Ranger pets go I think I will choose a different main character next playthrough =/

[dunehunter]

I feel bad that MC ranger subclass is inferior to companion one. Fortunately ranged weapons are very good in the game.

[Crucis]

I feel bad that MC ranger subclass is inferior to companion one. Fortunately ranged weapons are very good in the game.

 

It's always frustrating when a companion-only subclass or subrace is superior to the subclasses or subraces that the player can access.  Heck, I find it frustrating that they didn't include the avian Godlike subrace into PoE2.  It may be just about the best looking of the Godlikes, and it's a shame that players have no access to it.  Instead, we get a really ugly one like the Death GL's.  Sigh.

[Elric Galad]

Right now, if pet scales according to character level and all good abilities are PL 1-7, it means that Rangers are not a bad class.

Rangers are only a very bad Single Class.

It's quite complicated to find a decent reason to go Single Class. 

 

Twinned Shot is really horrible, except maybe with an arquebus, and all other high-level abilities are meh to okayish.

 

And +1 to "Sharpshooters are bad" 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Kaylon]

Right now, if pet scales according to character level and all good abilities are PL 1-7, it means that Rangers are not a bad class.

What are the good abilities? Gunner and Marksman? 

[cycloverid]

I don't need a overpowered class, I just want rangers to not be terrible - especially with bows since there is literally no disadvantage to swapping your bow out for a gun at any point. 

 

I enabled cheats and changed my class to Fighter(Devoted - War Bow)/Rogue and having a lot more fun now! I wish I didn't have to enable cheats though. My cipher was just outshining my main character too much and I couldn't handle it anymore. If I had taken Maia I'm sure I'd be a lot more pissed too.

[cycloverid]

Devoted Fighter gets +2 penetration and crit damage increase at all times with their chosen proficiency with no disadvantages as long as you use only one weapon. There's probably some nuances here and there (like the animal companion damage), but to me it seems like a strictly better choice than Ranger with Sharpshooter for a two-handed character.

[Elric Galad]

 

Right now, if pet scales according to character level and all good abilities are PL 1-7, it means that Rangers are not a bad class.

What are the good abilities? Gunner and Marksman?

I would say that pet has been a valuable asset since it has been buffed in PoE1.

Driving flight and stacking passive Acc bonus are good.

Binding root per encounter should be okay too but I admit I haven't tested.

Same for the dispel shot. It sounds like a valuable perk.

 

Nothing extraordinary, I admit, but still some good stuff. Enough to choose as a multiclass just because one wanted a Lion pet without feeling gimped IMHO, especially for casters who are particulary action-economy-hungry.

 

No stance (especially twin shot nerfed to a mere attack) and Stunning Shot nerf are what is missing to the class right now IMHO.

[Ophiuchus]

I don't need a overpowered class, I just want rangers to not be terrible - especially with bows since there is literally no disadvantage to swapping your bow out for a gun at any point. 

 

I enabled cheats and changed my class to Fighter(Devoted - War Bow)/Rogue and having a lot more fun now! I wish I didn't have to enable cheats though. My cipher was just outshining my main character too much and I couldn't handle it anymore. If I had taken Maia I'm sure I'd be a lot more pissed too.

I feel you. I'm considering changing my Cipher/Ghost Heart to Cipher/Devoted for the same reason (plus, those unique war bows are really spicy). The pet eats into way too many of your ability points (points that could be used for powerful afflictions, CC, and such) while you can skimp out on Fighter's melee abilities. Losing out on Marksman won't be a big deal with the accuracy/deflection stance; Tactical Barrage can easily replace Marked for The Hunt.

 

Edit: It's also humorous how a Swashbuckler is better at range than Ranger.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Ophiuchus

[Sheikkah]

Is Wounding Shot buggy ? It deals only 10% of weapon damages instead of 20%.

[rheingold]

If it's any consolation the devs will get balance right, it will take time. The balance is not great now, but to be fair, it's a hell of job balancing all the available options. Blame everyone who wanted multi classes ) POE balance was great at the end.

Edited May 15, 2018 by rheingold

[mammasaura]

Wanted to try a beastmaster for roleplaying and was pretty fun for a while.

 

What bothers me, and left me out to play ranger in poe1, is that healing pet and revive are two different abilities.

It's a broken circuit:

Why should I pick healing pet and not revive?

Why should I pick revive pet and not healing?

If you pick one of them means you aren't a ghost heart and you're building around the pet, so you need to pick both.

It's different than companions because they have the abilities to sustain themselves, the pet relays on the ranger or other outside sources, unless you pick a really late "play dead".

 

The talent pool for the pet is pretty stacked: commands and their upgrates, talents for damage and/or defense, what's left for the character, and if multiclassing?

 

I like to have a lot of choices, but for the ranger, maybe too many are to improve the collaboration with the pet and too many sounds mandatory.

Edited May 15, 2018 by mammasaura

[GuyNice]

Wanted to try a beastmaster for roleplaying and was pretty fun for a while.

 

What bothers me, and left me out to play ranger in poe1, is that healing pet and revive are two different abilities.

It's a broken circuit:

Why should I pick healing pet and not revive?

Why should I pick revive pet and not healing?

If you pick one of them means you aren't a ghost heart and you're building around the pet, so you need to pick both.

It's different than companions because they have the abilities to sustain themselves, the pet relays on the ranger or other outside sources, unless you pick a really late "play dead".

 

The talent pool for the pet is pretty stacked: commands and their upgrates, talents for damage and/or defense, what's left for the character, and if multiclassing?

 

I like to have a lot of choices, but for the ranger, maybe too many are to improve the collaboration with the pet and too many sounds mandatory.

Agreed, I would never ever pick Heal/Revive pet, I'd rather rely on party support or item/scroll use for that instead of sacrificing the (already somewhat subpar) damage potential of the class. I also agree that there are too many passives for the pets, I would like to see some of them consolidated or simply rolled into the pet scaling. I feel like the heal pet ability should be part of the base Ranger kit, while leaving Revive an optional ability with opportunity cost.

Edited May 15, 2018 by GuyNice