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I had this idea from the fig campaign that they would have banters albeit much less than the companions. A quick comment here and there, limited interactions, etc.

Too bad if they really have none, that would have given them some more personality but hey, no big deal! :)

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Your example wasn't a good one... because there is actually only one priest in Deadfire, so you like her or you hire one.

So if I went with fighter it would have been a good one? I feel you're just avoiding my argument that these sidekicks are a great compromise between quality (really fleshed out companions) and quantity (generic mercs that we never run out of).

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250.000 for 4 portraits and some cosmetics are a insult to me aswell.

Streach goals in crowdfunding are specific and concrete goals (as opposed to the underlying goal - a better game) used as enticement to get people to contribute more money, the vast majority of which will go into the basic development of the game. Some of them are robust game mechanics (theoretically the relationship system), others are throwaway tchotchkes, and so on - their monetary cost to implement may differ, and so do their subjective value.

 

If you are disappointed that the sidekicks do not live up to your expectations, that's fair enough, but to feel like you've been insulted based on "their cost" is taking it a bit too far.

Yes, but like I already said in another comment, back in POE 1 they implemented the stronghold system and the endless paths of caed nua with a 200.000 goal, I don't need to be a programmer to know that the endless paths and the stronghold system were a far bigger implement than 4 custom portraits.

Stronghold was not 200.000 goal but something they promised to do if their Kickstarter achives certain amount of money. They put things in the goal points which they thought would interest people to give money for the project not because implementing those features cost that much money. As they only predict how many people they can hire for the project and how much time those people have to do things. Also in case of both stronghold and endless path and also in case of second big city Obsidian under estimated how much work they need which is why Obsidian wasn't able to implement them in the extent they hoped and which is reason why they were more careful with their stretchgoals in deadfire's campaign

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They said they're gonna be something like Minsk was in BG2. Now I didn't travel with Minsk much because I didn't like him, but I think he wasn't just a decoration.

 

The big difference between sidekicks and companions, they said, is that the former don't have a quest related to the main plot and don't participate in the relationship mechanic. This implies they have unique character, dialogues and banters. I think both Josh and Carrie spoke about this in the past and confirmed it.

 

If this has changed I don't see the point of including them at all, since you can get the same outcome by hirelings, unless Josh refers to banters specifically.

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I always took it that

 

Companions in POEII ~ Companions in BG2

Sidekicks in POEII ~ Companions in BG1

 

They'd have dialogue related to the quest they were found on, but otherwise would be a few personality barks after that initial launch.

 

That was the impression I got when there was a push to reach the stretch goal of Ydwin as a full companion rather than a sidekick.

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From the context, josh was commenting on banters specifically.

 

Actually, not being part of the relationship mechanics cuts down on banter. Banter is specifically dialogue between characters. (Eder wanting to pet Sagani's fox, she warns him about being bitten, etc).

 

It -doesn't- mean they won't be barking their equivalents of 'For Eothas!' or 'What does the flame reveal.'. Nor does it mean there isn't a short dialogue tree about their origins and goals.

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I don't know why anyone is particularly surprised. Sidekicks were sold, from the beginning, as fairly stripped down Companions that add a little bit of flavor to the world by their concept but are explicitly Not Fully Fledged Companions. The comparison made by Josh was to characters in Baldur's Gate 2. Baldur's Gate 2, functionally, has Companions and Sidekicks it just doesn't tell you which is which. Cernd is blatantly a Sidekick. Dude has little to no banter or reactivity compared to say Minsc or Jaheira. Minsc and Jaheira are Companions. The point of the stretch goal was to add those minor flavor characters but to be explicit about the fact that they are Cernds.

 

By all indications they're still going to have SOME, or how else would you have Rekke babbling at you in a language nobody understands and yet has also been hinted by Josh as technically decipherable by an obsessive enough fan? But they are still Cernds.

Edited by Fiaryn
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There will be *some* banter, as someone from the dev team said that the language that Rekke speaks is a mystery to everyone.

 

So, he speaks.

 

Thus others speak also.

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@Fiaryn

 

in BG2 in regards to scope, there‘s Jaheira and then there‘s the rest. If it‘s how Amentep said then that‘s a disappointment since you'll have only 7 chars in BG2 scope. If it‘s so that Deadfire companions mean Jaheira and sidekicks mean the other characters in BG2 then that would be super. As it is, if memory serves right, all characters in BG2 except Minsc have their miniquest (even Cernd – starts off at Waukeens promenade). Jaheira is loaded with quests and she‘s really above everyone else. All of the BG2 chars have IMO same amount of 'inter-banter'.

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Dissapointed, but not surprised actually - i kinda figured that will be the case when I noticed lack of sidekick watercolor "convo" pictures in beta files. Which is funny by the way - Maia's bird has a convo picture (and thus conversations) and sidekicks don't. I'm just bummed that potentially interesting companion concepts go completely to waste. I would love to know more about Ydwin, her stance on animancy, her past in White that Wends - I legitimately enjoy that kind of "brainy, witty and quirky" type of characters. So letdown for me I guess.

And no, I don't believe that Obsidian will actually expand sidekicks in DLCs. That's "a lot of work". :p

Edited by aksrasjel
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@Fiaryn

 

in BG2 in regards to scope, there‘s Jaheira and then there‘s the rest. If it‘s how Amentep said then that‘s a disappointment since you'll have only 7 chars in BG2 scope. If it‘s so that Deadfire companions mean Jaheira and sidekicks mean the other characters in BG2 then that would be super. As it is, if memory serves right, all characters in BG2 except Minsc have their miniquest (even Cernd – starts off at Waukeens promenade). Jaheira is loaded with quests and she‘s really above everyone else. All of the BG2 chars have IMO same amount of 'inter-banter'.

Saying IMO doesn't make a thing true. There are vast gulfs in how fleshed out the BG2 characters are, Valygar/Mazzy/Cernd are some of the easy examples of "barely any banter". This is functionally similar to the difference between a Companion and a Sidekick, remember that Sidekicks do have a quest where you acquire them they just don't have anything beyond that, the difference is that BG2 doesn't tell you which is which and if you got attached to a character with barely any reactivity...well, that's a shame.

 

Pillars is being upfront about what you're getting by contrast. We knew from the start that we were only getting 7 fully fleshed out Companions, people weren't listening.

Edited by Fiaryn
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Dissapointed, but not surprised actually - i kinda figured that will be the case when I noticed lack of sidekick watercolor "convo" pictures in beta files. Which is funny by the way - Maia's bird has a convo picture (and thus conversations) and sidekicks don't.

Companions also don't have their own watercolor convo pictures in the Beta files at the moment; going by your flawless logic that means no companion will ever say anything in any conversation. 

 

Might it be the case that the portraits folders are not yet complete? How could that possibly be!?

Edited by Alot
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Dissapointed, but not surprised actually - i kinda figured that will be the case when I noticed lack of sidekick watercolor "convo" pictures in beta files. Which is funny by the way - Maia's bird has a convo picture (and thus conversations) and sidekicks don't.

Companions also don't have their own watercolor convo pictures in the Beta files at the moment; going by your flawless logic that means no companion will ever say anything in any conversation. 

 

Might it be the case that the portraits folders are not yet complete? How could that possibly be!?

 

Yeah, I do know that companion folder is empty in this version of beta. I should have been more specific - I meant the previous version. And I also didn't apply any logic to that - beacuse I actually know there are a lot of reasons why sidekicks don't have their watercolor portraits in the beta. It's a beta after all. This was just a joke - if I have offended you, apologies.

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They implied, as explained for a few, that they have conversations.

"Little to none banters" i thought it mean very little, it looks like they meant that was going to have little or none. So, zero banters? ok :c. but that is different from what they just said: that they are just a model a portrait, and an initial convo, i don't think they have lied, they would have say it way earlier if the sidekicks where reduced to this.

Josh probably wanted to say that that is the most notable content they have, but is not what he said, so he should probably clarity it.

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My guess from way back during the Fig campaign was that the sidekicks would get more content during the expansions. Granted I have zero evidence suggesting I was right about that but I will still just wait around and see.

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My guess from way back during the Fig campaign was that the sidekicks would get more content during the expansions. Granted I have zero evidence suggesting I was right about that but I will still just wait around and see.

 

I I seem to recall there was talk about Ydwin, that she might get full companion status in an expansion, but I don't know if that was based on something that was said or if it was based on hope.

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I remember that Josh said that sidekicks are comparable to PoE's companions while Deadfire's companions will have more stuff like relationships and so on. That was a very early statement - but it made me believe that they'll have banter. But as far as I know it wasn't explicitly said they would have it. A pity, but understandable.

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My guess from way back during the Fig campaign was that the sidekicks would get more content during the expansions. Granted I have zero evidence suggesting I was right about that but I will still just wait around and see.

 

I I seem to recall there was talk about Ydwin, that she might get full companion status in an expansion, but I don't know if that was based on something that was said or if it was based on hope.

 

I honestly cannot find a link to the conversation now, but from what I remember there was a question asked on Sawyer's tumblr page just before the extended fig campaign ended. Someone asked about possibility of Ydwin being expanded and Sawyer was positive. But that was a year ago, so a lot might have changed.

 

Edit: Found the link: https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/160089704591/greetings-mr-sawyer-my-username-in-the-forums-is

Edited by aksrasjel
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