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Last stream josh stated that "sidekicks will have little to no banter". Then I asked him this: "so the sidekicks are just custom characters with some cosmetics?" he gave this reply: "this was precisely what the stretch goal said", so I made some research and no, that was not what the stretch goal said.

"Before joining your ranks, Sidekicks start out as unique NPCs integral to specific quests, complete with their own personalities and looks, and they may offer to join your party as a reward for completing their quest. Just like companions, these new characters have a custom portrait and voice sound-set. However, unlike companions, they do not have their own vision quest and will not participate in the relationship system outlined in our last stretch goal. We know you love more choice and flexibility when creating your parties, and Sidekicks are a way for us to give you that choice by providing a larger roster of characters to choose."

It was stated that they would not have a personal quest, I can understand that perfectly a personal quest is a huge work and need resources, and that they would not participate in the relationship system, again totally understandable, but no banters? How they will show their personalities without nothing to say?

Then I proceed to copy and paste this information, after no reply I got angry and said "well that is just lazy", and then Josh proceed to answer "actually banter is a lot of work".

There you have it, a 250k stretch goal for 4 portraits and 4 custom characters. A portrait is 60 dollars Obsidian, someone overpriced you a little bit. You can argue that they didn't have the resources to make some banters but they already proved that wrong, they had the extra resources to make the full V.O. something that no one asked, not to mention that the stretch goal was 250k, that is not enough for 80 lines of dialogues?

 

Edited by molotov.
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There you have it, a 250k stretch goal for 4 portraits and 4 custom characters. Nice use of our money. They could have forgot about the full V.O. something that no one asked for and made at least a couple of banters for the sidekicks, or 250k is not enough for 40 lines of dialogues?

 

 

So wait is more voice work good or bad I'm getting mixed signals here

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There you have it, a 250k stretch goal for 4 portraits and 4 custom characters. Nice use of our money. They could have forgot about the full V.O. something that no one asked for and made at least a couple of banters for the sidekicks, or 250k is not enough for 40 lines of dialogues?

 

 

So wait is more voice work good or bad I'm getting mixed signals here

 

Wow, you were fast! I made some edittings but my idea is still the same.

 

Yes, mixed signals everywhere, and to be completely honest some of the V.O. on the last stream was bad to regular. A old lady with a 30 years old voice is an example.

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I think it's a little more complicated then that.

 

I can't rightly say what the goings on are in the development but I don't think you really can either. Calling it "lazy" is just blindly antagonistic.

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I think it's a little more complicated then that.

 

I can't rightly say what the goings on are in the development but I don't think you really can either. Calling it "lazy" is just blindly antagonistic.

"Then I proceed to copy and paste this information, after no reply I got angry and said "well that is just lazy", and then Josh proceed to answer "actually banter is a lot of work". 

 

I was angry that is why I said that, but I wanted to put this information here because I thought that Josh answer was a bit strange... he didn't say anything about not having enough time or not enough resources he said that it would be a lot of work. 250.000 dollars. You don't think that is enough for some banters?

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I was expecting a little banter from the sidekicks - nowhere near as much as  a full companion, but it does seem a little odd to have none.  Not even a cheeky/pithy/sarcastic/etc comment here or there?

If they're just 'official' adventurer's hall companions, then they're the same as the Critical Role companions, no?  Unique voice-set+portrait but nothing else to distinguish them.

Hopefully their personality shines through in their introductory quest/convo.

Edited by Silent Winter
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"Then I proceed to copy and paste this information, after no reply I got angry and said "well that is just lazy", and then Josh proceed to answer "actually banter is a lot of work". 

 

I was angry that is why I said that,

Well, just because you have emotions doesn't mean you have to blurt out the first thing that comes into your mind. You could have said you were disappointed perhaps. Calling them lazy is insulting.

 

But to adress your point, my suggestion is that you calm down and play the actual game first before going all bananas about it. It could be just as bad as you imagine but it could also be a lot better. Make a fair judgement when you have the game in your hands.

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I'll do it, for a turnip.

 

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How they will show their personalities without nothing to say?

I think the smooth/feisty/etc voicesets for PoE1 characters create a fair degree of personality. So they'll have their own responses and a quest that might tell us what matters to them... or what messes they get tangled in. Sure, it leaves a bit to the player's imagination, but it's still far from a tavern merc that you didn't have to pay for. I think sidekicks are a good idea: In PoE1, if you want a priest for your party, you better like Durance or you better hire one. You want two priests for your party, you'll need to hire at least one. And for mercs you have to invent everything yourself to give them personality.

 

The more sidekicks (or companions, if we disregard the money issue) there are, the more party compositions we can experiment with without resorting to complete mercs. Of course fully fleshed our characters are cooler to have, but how many sidekicks can we get for the price of one companion? Especially considering companion production costs scale linearly since every companion needs to interact with every other companion. Going from 1 to 2 companions is 1 added set of interactions, going from 2 to 3 is 2 added, from 3 to 4 is 3 added...

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I was expecting a little banter from the sidekicks - nowhere near as much as  a full companion, but it does seem a little odd to have none.  Not even a cheeky/pithy/sarcastic/etc comment here or there?

 

I believe in the stream Josh said they have a bit "here and there" but nowhere near as much as a full companion.

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How they will show their personalities without nothing to say?

I think the smooth/feisty/etc voicesets for PoE1 characters create a fair degree of personality. So they'll have their own responses and a quest that might tell us what matters to them... or what messes they get tangled in. Sure, it leaves a bit to the player's imagination, but it's still far from a tavern merc that you didn't have to pay for. I think sidekicks are a good idea: In PoE1, if you want a priest for your party, you better like Durance or you better hire one. You want two priests for your party, you'll need to hire at least one. And for mercs you have to invent everything yourself to give them personality.

 

The more sidekicks (or companions, if we disregard the money issue) there are, the more party compositions we can experiment with without resorting to complete mercs. Of course fully fleshed our characters are cooler to have, but how many sidekicks can we get for the price of one companion? Especially considering companion production costs scale linearly since every companion needs to interact with every other companion. Going from 1 to 2 companions is 1 added set of interactions, going from 2 to 3 is 2 added, from 3 to 4 is 3 added...

 

Your example wasn't a good one... because there is actually only one priest in Deadfire, so you like her or you hire one. I'm not asking for full companions I'm asking for a couple of banters. Actually... I'm not even asking I'm just spreading the information, 250.000 of your backer money was used to create 4 portraits, 4 faces and 4 quests. In the first game the stronghold and the endless paths of Caed Nua was created with a 200,000 stretch goal.

Edited by molotov.
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"Then I proceed to copy and paste this information, after no reply I got angry and said "well that is just lazy", and then Josh proceed to answer "actually banter is a lot of work". 

 

I was angry that is why I said that,

Well, just because you have emotions doesn't mean you have to blurt out the first thing that comes into your mind. You could have said you were disappointed perhaps. Calling them lazy is insulting.

 

But to adress your point, my suggestion is that you calm down and play the actual game first before going all bananas about it. It could be just as bad as you imagine but it could also be a lot better. Make a fair judgement when you have the game in your hands.

 

250.000 for 4 portraits and some cosmetics are a insult to me aswell.

 

Why? Josh already said "they have little to no banter", he said it not me you can check the stream if you need any further proof. And I have to say that the V.O. for the NPCs were bad to regular.

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Do you need one? Your citation doesn't mention banter at all. They'll likely have barks, but that's about it.

 

Seems a waste in several cases, since they've made such a huge deal about full voice and the critical role kids (and some are just sidekicks), but there aren't any broken or misleading promises here. Assuming you know what banter is (and isn't)...

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I was expecting a little banter from the sidekicks - nowhere near as much as  a full companion, but it does seem a little odd to have none.  Not even a cheeky/pithy/sarcastic/etc comment here or there?

If they're just 'official' adventurer's hall companions, then they're the same as the Critical Role companions, no?  Unique voice-set+portrait but nothing else to distinguish them.

Hopefully their personality shines through in their introductory quest/convo.

We don't have CR companions, we have CR portraits and voice sets and that's it. If you want a character from CR you have to create it yourself.

 

Also Josh mentioned that there will be banters for sidekicks, but only a little, probably only comments about something here and there, not conversation to other companions or sidekicks.

 

And it is quite clear that you can have conversation with your sidekicks, which is more than normal adventurers you create.

Edited by jf8350143
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250.000 for 4 portraits and some cosmetics are a insult to me aswell.

Streach goals in crowdfunding are specific and concrete goals (as opposed to the underlying goal - a better game) used as enticement to get people to contribute more money, the vast majority of which will go into the basic development of the game. Some of them are robust game mechanics (theoretically the relationship system), others are throwaway tchotchkes, and so on - their monetary cost to implement may differ, and so do their subjective value.

 

If you are disappointed that the sidekicks do not live up to your expectations, that's fair enough, but to feel like you've been insulted based on "their cost" is taking it a bit too far.

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I was expecting a little banter from the sidekicks - nowhere near as much as  a full companion, but it does seem a little odd to have none.  Not even a cheeky/pithy/sarcastic/etc comment here or there?

If they're just 'official' adventurer's hall companions, then they're the same as the Critical Role companions, no?  Unique voice-set+portrait but nothing else to distinguish them.

Hopefully their personality shines through in their introductory quest/convo.

We don't have CR companions, we have CR portraits and voice sets and that's it. If you want a character from CR you have to create it yourself.

 

Also Josh mentioned that there will be banters for sidekicks, but only a little, probably only comments about something here and there, not conversation to other companions or sidekicks.

 

And it is quite clear that you can have conversation with your sidekicks, which is more than normal adventurers you create.

 

Well... I thought it was quite clear that they would have some sort of banter, but there you have it.

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250.000 for 4 portraits and some cosmetics are a insult to me aswell.

Streach goals in crowdfunding are specific and concrete goals (as opposed to the underlying goal - a better game) used as enticement to get people to contribute more money, the vast majority of which will go into the basic development of the game. Some of them are robust game mechanics (theoretically the relationship system), others are throwaway tchotchkes, and so on - their monetary cost to implement may differ, and so do their subjective value.

 

If you are disappointed that the sidekicks do not live up to your expectations, that's fair enough, but to feel like you've been insulted based on "their cost" is taking it a bit too far.

 

Yes, but like I already said in another comment, back in POE 1 they implemented the stronghold system and the endless paths of caed nua with a 200.000 goal, I don't need to be a programmer to know that the endless paths and the stronghold system were a far bigger implement than 4 custom portraits.

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Do you need one? Your citation doesn't mention banter at all. They'll likely have barks, but that's about it.

 

Seems a waste in several cases, since they've made such a huge deal about full voice and the critical role kids (and some are just sidekicks), but there aren't any broken or misleading promises here. Assuming you know what banter is (and isn't)...

They didn't state that there would be banter but they didn't state that there weren't be banters, so you can use that argument for both cases. To be honest I thougth it was quite clear that there would have some banters.

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I was expecting a little banter from the sidekicks - nowhere near as much as  a full companion, but it does seem a little odd to have none.  Not even a cheeky/pithy/sarcastic/etc comment here or there?

If they're just 'official' adventurer's hall companions, then they're the same as the Critical Role companions, no?  Unique voice-set+portrait but nothing else to distinguish them.

Hopefully their personality shines through in their introductory quest/convo.

We don't have CR companions, we have CR portraits and voice sets and that's it. If you want a character from CR you have to create it yourself.

 

Also Josh mentioned that there will be banters for sidekicks, but only a little, probably only comments about something here and there, not conversation to other companions or sidekicks.

 

And it is quite clear that you can have conversation with your sidekicks, which is more than normal adventurers you create.

 

No he said "little to none" that is quite different from only a little.

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250.000 for 4 portraits and some cosmetics are a insult to me aswell.

 

Why? Josh already said "they have little to no banter", he said it not me you can check the stream if you need any further proof. And I have to say that the V.O. for the NPCs were bad to regular.

What is much and what is little? It's relative terms.

 

Play the game and get an actual feel for it before you get insulted by something you haven't experienced yet.

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I'll do it, for a turnip.

 

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"Then I proceed to copy and paste this information, after no reply I got angry and said "well that is just lazy", and then Josh proceed to answer "actually banter is a lot of work".

 

I was angry that is why I said that,

Well, just because you have emotions doesn't mean you have to blurt out the first thing that comes into your mind. You could have said you were disappointed perhaps. Calling them lazy is insulting.

 

But to adress your point, my suggestion is that you calm down and play the actual game first before going all bananas about it. It could be just as bad as you imagine but it could also be a lot better. Make a fair judgement when you have the game in your hands.

250.000 for 4 portraits and some cosmetics are a insult to me aswell.

 

Why? Josh already said "they have little to no banter", he said it not me you can check the stream if you need any further proof. And I have to say that the V.O. for the NPCs were bad to regular.

You donated 250.000$ personally? Clearly you have money to burn.

 

Seriously though, the amount of sour complaints on this forum before the game is even released is a bit much.

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....I thought that was the point. They never said they would have personal quests or banter. They’re NPC’s who may offer to join you after you complete a quest they’re involved with. They have custom voice sets and portraits. As advertised. That’s why they aren’t just called companions.

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Do you need one? Your citation doesn't mention banter at all. They'll likely have barks, but that's about it.

Seems a waste in several cases, since they've made such a huge deal about full voice and the critical role kids (and some are just sidekicks), but there aren't any broken or misleading promises here. Assuming you know what banter is (and isn't)...

 

They didn't state that there would be banter but they didn't state that there weren't be banters, so you can use that argument for both cases. To be honest I thougth it was quite clear that there would have some banters.
That isn't how logic works. If the stretch goal doesn't say something is specifically included, then they're under no obligation to do It.

 

 

I'm still not particularly convinced you know what 'banter' is in this context

Edited by Voss
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