3 expansions ......really?

[Moriendor]

I grabbed the game now to show some much needed support for single player gaming. It is kind of sad that most of the gaming world is only talking about PUBG, Fortnite, Overwatch and loot boxes, microtransactions and battle royale modes anymore. Decent single player games like Prey and Wolfenstein II have flopped for no apparent reason.

 

That's why I decided to buy the Obsidian edition of Deadfire now, even though I won't be doing a full proper playthrough before next winter after all the DLC and the much needed patches are out. Like the first game I'm sure it will be a much improved epic adventure by then.

 

I did try the game now and treated it like an extended demo (put almost 50 hours into it). I only did Port Maje, Dunnage, Fort Deadlight and almost everything in Neketaka, the latter with lots of rushing and clicking through dialogues to not spoil too much.

There will be a lot of game plus three DLC islands left to explore and play through when I return to it in winter (probably around xmas or early 2019).

 

I'm looking forward to playing the game then on veteran difficulty with some Berath's Blessings (only the attribute and skill boost ones) with a fully working import, more of a challenge level, hopefully nearly bug-free and some new features and achievements to round it all off.

 

I would also prefer an ideal world where we can buy a finished game on the day of release, knowing "this is it", instead of today's usual modus operandi where almost every game gets DLC, patches galore with not just fixes but also plenty new features and QoL additions, all of which will eventually culminate in an enhanced, definitive, GOTY or whatever complete edition (which the devs and publishers like to do so they can put an all "new" SKU on store shelves, both retail and digital).

 

But it is what it is. The business model has evolved into what we have now. All you can do is vote with your wallet so if you do not want to support the piecemeal delivery then buy the full game on sale next year to make your point clear. That's all you can do.

[Boeroer]

Obsidian does a survey on DLCs/expansions.

Fans write down what they want.

Obsidian releases DLCs according to the survey.

Fans cry "That's not what I wanted!"

Me: 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Boeroer

[Katarack21]

I don't get why people bitch about DLC's. Like...there's more of the game to play, and you're whining about it.

[Yosharian]

 

 

They offered the base game and the season pass for about the price of the game itself during the Fig campaign. If you had previously backed POE 1 they even gave a discount.

 

> If you had previously backed POE 1 they even gave a discount.

 

How much is the season pass with that discount?

 

 

The season pass was $20 during the FIG campaign.

 

The discount was $5

 

 

So I should be able to get the season pass for $15 thru the backer portal?

[Wormerine]

So I should be able to get the season pass for $15 thru the backer portal?

$25 - season past preorder

$20 - early bird DLC fig addon

 

Do the math.

[Messier-31]

 

WTF OP? Why? WHYYYY!?!?

 

[Sedrefilos]

Well the game is complete without the dlcs so you shouldn't have a problem feeling the pirate theme and story. It's also a big game as it is.

[Mikeymoonshine]

 

DLC was part of the fig campaign, the last game also had dlc.

 

So it's actually good that they are releasing it soon and giving us details on what it will be. I was hoping for something meatier than the three dlc's sound, something like the white march or an actual proper expansion but they never said that this would be all the dlc ever released so who knows maybe we'll get an expansion after all.

 

Either way I am pleased there will be post launch content. Sorry about you wanting to play it all at once but it's pretty normal to have to wait for a complete edition of a game to do that, I am not saying that is a good thing but it isn't an inherently bad thing either. They were very upfront about the fact that there would be dlc, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

 

Seems like you are implying that because they are releasing it so soon it must be like ripped from the main game or should just have been part of the main game. I can see that perspective but non of it sounds like it has much to do with the main plot. It will have been budgeted and planned for but they didn't know what form it would take when they pitched it which means they hadn't started working on it yet then.

If they aren't full blown expansions, would you have a time frame on when the expansions would come?

 

 

I'm sure they are perfectly servicable it's just the fact that they all seem to be self contained side stories and retail for ten dollars each, one of them is just a combat thing. When I say "proper expansion" I mean something like Throne of Bhall, Dragon Age Awakening,  shivering Isles, Witcher 3 blood and wine ect. Something large with it's own story, multiple areas, characters side quests, endings ect. The White march wasn't too bad but these all seem smaller and not parts of one big plot like the white march 1 & 2 were.

 

So I am saying that I hope they do something bigger down the line.

[Sceptenar]

Geez... some people, if you give them gold bricks, they complain they're too heavy...

[Aotrs Commander]

You would think to say I am obsessed with anything to do with pirates, and anything to do with story and character driven RPG's, that I would have bought this by now, however...

 

There are THREE DLC's being released in the next 6 months... wtf Obsidian? I don't know why, but I expected better than this. Just make a complete game and release it in November instead of releasing it in chunks between May and November.

 

As I likely will only be able to spare enough time to play through this once, releasing it in chunks is just making me not want to buy it until it's all out so I can do everything in one go.

 

Just finish the whole thing and charge more for it. Can you at least tell me if I can play JUST the DLC's that are being released without having to go through the whole game again or whether they'll be integrated into the main story?

 

Why? Because I (among other people) explictly paid them to do it.

 

In this case, you wanna complain about expansions/DLC?

 

Take it up with US. We told them to do it.

[Wormerine]

Geez... some people, if you give them gold bricks, they complain they're too heavy...

I mean yeah. New Vegas Sierra Madre Vault.

[Wormerine]

If they aren't full blown expansions, would you have a time frame on when the expansions would come?

https://eternity.obsidian.net/news/pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire-post-launch-content-announced

[whiskiz]

That is very, very odd and slightly unnerving.

 

As someone who is waiting to play the game when PotD, multiclassing and the game in general is balanced properly, i must say - feel free, as long as this doesn't affect post-release bug fixing - then even making a start on the balancing of the game, PotD and multiclassing.

 

Not sure how you guys can bugfix properly and fix any other issues like apparently quests not firing properly depending on the order they're done in, while spending the time and resources to balance the game fully and properly, all-the-while working on 3 DLC in the first 6 months.

 

Please don't make the game and your name suffer all in the name of increased profit margins.

 

This is coming from someone willing to wait 3 - 6 months for a properly balanced game, especially PotD.

 

I'm not willing to wait at all, if it's not going to have the time and resources dedicated to it that it needs and should have, having important issues take a backseat to again increasing profit margins with 3 - i say again - 3 DLC, in the first 6 months of release.

 

That's insane and very worrying.

 

How about actually finishing the base game properly first, before churning out extra money makers.

Edited May 17, 2018 by whiskiz

[Fiaryn]

I don't know how to tell you this man but developers are not Mass Effect omnigel slathered on random objects interchangeably. The people generating art assets for DLC areas are not the people handling bug fixes. That DLC would be happening post-release was determined back in the kickstarter ages ago.

 

This is neither odd nor unnerving.

[whiskiz]

I don't know how to tell you this man but developers are not Mass Effect omnigel slathered on random objects interchangeably. The people generating art assets for DLC areas are not the people handling bug fixes. That DLC would be happening post-release was determined back in the kickstarter ages ago. This is neither odd nor unnerving.

 

I think a little more goes into making DLC, extra game, than just art assets.

 

I personally don't care when this idea was announced, it doesn't make it any better.

 

Was it also announced that the game wouldn't be finished properly on release - all the bugs, difficulties not even being balanced yet, multiclass imbalances, as well as other issues, while taking this into account?

 

They were well aware of those things before release, because they did announce about the difficulty needing to be balanced post release, as well as having delayed release by a month for bugfixing - which they apparently had to sacrifice the balancing for. And it was still released both buggy and imbalanced as well as other problems.

 

Now i can kind of see why, apparently they already had their sights set on the horizon even before release..

 

Edit: The rabid fans can try to downplay this as much as you want, cook up as many dank memes as you want - i just hope your trust isn't misplaced.

Edited May 17, 2018 by whiskiz

[vlplbl]

Instead of waiting and reading about insignificant bugs I suggest you play. The game is amazing and one of the best I've ever played. If you so much want a challenge you can play solo or duo characters.

[Greensleeve]

The game being too easy is really the only problem with it so far. The overall level of bugs is... really minor. Compare to Dragon Age: Awakening on release, or Fallout 3 to this day. 

 

More than anything, it really doesn't matter if you're willing to wait. The rest of the market isn't. Obsidian isn't doing this to increase their profit margins; they don't really have any sizable profit margins to being with. They're doing this to survive and make sure that the 200 employees of the company can stay at work. 

 

Your proposed business model might work for a studio of maybe 20 people, or a larger studio in a place that isn't Irvine, CA. But Obsidian isn't small and it is in Irvine. It has to make money, and DLCs in this way is provably the best way to keep the game in the press, which keeps people buying the game. DLCs are not evil. Stop treating them as such. 

[Camonge]

White March was released 5 months after Pillars of Eternity 1. 

 

My only worry is that 3 DLCs at the same time won't be up to White March's quality.

 

About balance: they are working on it, it's going to get better, but this game is NEVER going to be as balanced as the first. Because subclasses and multiclasses: it's too much complexity.

[Isometric Chicken]

 

I don't know how to tell you this man but developers are not Mass Effect omnigel slathered on random objects interchangeably. The people generating art assets for DLC areas are not the people handling bug fixes. That DLC would be happening post-release was determined back in the kickstarter ages ago. This is neither odd nor unnerving.

 

I think a little more goes into making DLC, extra game, than just art assets.

 

I personally don't care when this idea was announced, it doesn't make it any better.

 

Was it also announced that the game wouldn't be finished properly on release - all the bugs, difficulties not even being balanced yet, multiclass imbalances, as well as other issues, while taking this into account?

 

 

No offense, but I think you don't understand quite how making games work. First of all, the "bugs, difficult balancing and other issues" are highly exaggerated, as usual. Sure, some people have had game-breaking bugs, but they are few and far between. Balancing is always going to be an issue. Some will always think it's too easy, some will always think it's too hard. That's why there are several difficulty levels. PotD could perhaps be a bit harder, but they are working on it.

 

But most important, the game was "content locked" a long time ago. Basically, when developers make a game, they first gather all sorts of ideas and suggestions for it, to decide what they want to do with the game, and what to include in it. After they have a good idea what it's going to be like, they get to work creating the game itself. At this point, the game is for the most part "content locked", meaning there will be more conent added for it. They can still add some things down the line, but there won't be major changes. This is part to make sure the game will be small enough to release on time, but also to give the development teams a strong focus.  If they keep adding new stuff to the game all the time, they will simply never finish it. At all. There are alway new things to add. What if we had a keep like in PoE1? What if we could have several ships, an send them off on their own missions? What if this, what if that? So the game has to be "content locked" at some point, where they know what's going to be in the game, and (rarely) add more stuff to it. But the game is still in early development at this point. There might be a working prototype, but that's about it.

 

This means that when the game nears completion, the developers can shift their focus to the DLC. The game is still weeks, or even months, away from being released, but they only need a small team to test for bugs, balancing and all that. Everyone else can work on other things, including entirely different games. That's how developers are able to support a game with patches and new content for months, or even years, and release other games at the same time. If it takes 100 people to make a game, it only takes 10 people to balance it and push out patches. The other 90 can either sit at home and watch TV, or get to work on another project. I'd rather have them work on another project.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Isometric Chicken

[whiskiz]

Instead of waiting and reading about insignificant bugs I suggest you play. The game is amazing and one of the best I've ever played. If you so much want a challenge you can play solo or duo characters.

 

In regards to the bugs i was just acknowledging they have priority over balancing, at least PotD.

 

I'm mainly holding off for PotD balance (as well as multiclass and general game balance) 

 

I went to play PoE 1 recently while waiting, solo due to no level scaling of content and i read solo runs or the like are mostly cheese, especially early game where you may not have all the tools.

 

Avoid as many fights as you can, stealth as hard as you can, finish off as many quests as you can, etc. That's not really for me.

 

 

The game being too easy is really the only problem with it so far. The overall level of bugs is... really minor. Compare to Dragon Age: Awakening on release, or Fallout 3 to this day. 

 

More than anything, it really doesn't matter if you're willing to wait. The rest of the market isn't. Obsidian isn't doing this to increase their profit margins; they don't really have any sizable profit margins to being with. They're doing this to survive and make sure that the 200 employees of the company can stay at work. 

 

Your proposed business model might work for a studio of maybe 20 people, or a larger studio in a place that isn't Irvine, CA. But Obsidian isn't small and it is in Irvine. It has to make money, and DLCs in this way is provably the best way to keep the game in the press, which keeps people buying the game. DLCs are not evil. Stop treating them as such. 

 

I agree about the bugs, again it's just that apparently they take priority over balancing the difficulty.

 

"DLCs are not evil"

 

Never said they were, you're making a straw man argument. My problem isn't making a DLC, it's making 3 DLC - in the first 6 months of game release.

 

Especially when the release was so imbalanced and had so many people complaining about bugs and other problems. 

 

P.S how is level scaling going to work? (when it gets fixed and works properly. Apparently another one of the problems..) If you're say lvl 10 and fighting lvl 6 enemies scaled to lvl 10, doesn't that just mean their base stats get increased to lvl 10? Won't you still have a major advantage from higher level abilities, more ability points, better gear and whatever else?

 

That, with subclasses and multi classes is definitely going to make balancing interesting, even more so with them working on 3 DLC in 6 months at the same time -.-

 

Feels like it's quantity over quality.

Edited May 17, 2018 by whiskiz

[Sedrefilos]

Obviously the DLCs were scheduled way before release and they are directed by different people so I can only assume they were worked by different team parallel to Deadfire at some point after the game was "done" internally. I don't get all this fuss about the DLCs.

[Lobotechx]

Hello Spoiler please don't read if you never finish the game.

 

First of all i'm a big Fan of those game especially Obsidian game like POE, i've played Baldur's gate when it come up and back in the day it was something.

 

 

I really enjoyed PoE1 POTD it was hard, i past lots of hour trying to kill the bear in the cave on the second zone, have to come back after a couple more lvl. Since the game was not scaling up.

When poE2 came out and there was the option scaling. I was like holy **** they are awesome. I creat a party directly Potd expert full scaling all UP. i died a couple time early on then on my third time i did a few quest to get more level. After you reach lvl 8-9 and kill the first kraken in the temple the game is over, the difficulty just go down.It was so easy i did'nt even enjoyed it. I was like damnit it will be difficult a some point. The answer is no. POTD is like Easy in PoE1.  Quest bounty give tons of XP u reach lvl 20 doing like 1/3 of the content. There is no point to do all the content since there is no challenge. You reach lvl 20 it say max lvl... So u just go to the last zone but there is no boss. i killed the thing and i was like nice a few mob decent but not the hardest i've meet. So i continue and it was the end i was like wtfffffffffffffff. Trash mod is the end ? ( Ancient Vampyre was stronger. )

 

SO i said maybe i'm too good ? Or they make the game for casual player ? So Casual player feels good crush the game at max difficulty ?

 

Enyways, Today i just finish my Solo game POTD Expert full scaling ( I repeat nothing scale ) with 1 character. I chosed the number 6 Background ( less rewards more difficult story etc ) It was so easy i was like how people can play the Normal mode with 5 character when i crush POTD with 1 characer ? Maybe i'm a old veterant and those game is for the new generation. Feelsbad. I'll wait a few month and come back if they have the time  to fix the difficulty and the items, there is like 3-4 decent ring 2-3 boots, You always loot the same thing and Every zone drop the same unique. By the way i unlocked 66 Berath's blessing. I'm done for now no challenge no boss no point to grind.

 

I think the difficulty if a way bigger issue than New Rum and drunk pose or life bug. It's the global fun of the game.

 

Let me know what u guys thinking and ur story. I'm a bit upset sorry about that.

[karnor00]

There are THREE DLC's being released in the next 6 months... wtf Obsidian? I don't know why, but I expected better than this. Just make a complete game and release it in November instead of releasing it in chunks between May and November.

I’ve just thought of a brilliant idea which solves your problem and also probably saves you some money.

 

Instead of Obsidian waiting until November to release everything in one go, you just wait until November before playing the game. There might even be some sales for you by then.

[Oasx]

I think many people vastly underestimate how difficult it is to bugfix this kind of game. There are probably hundreds of different processors, graphics cards, sounds cards and so on, combine that with a 50+ hour game and you can have a bug where if you have X processor with X graphic card, with a certain group of companions and you click on something while an npc is going a specific thing, then there is a bug. It is literally impossible to find all those bugs in a studio. At some point you just need to release the game and let the audience find the bugs that you couldn't do.

That doesn't mean that you can't criticize Obsidian or think that they perhaps should spend more time on bugfixing, but I very much doubt that they just throw games out there without bugfixing.

 

Also regarding DLC, it is important to note that things like White March is a bit of an abnormality, the days of large significant expansions to games is over and small DLC is what sells. I loved White March and I would much prefer that to shorter DLC's, but for all I know Obsidian has done the math and it might show that large DLC loses them money.

 

Personally I beat the game on classic and I found the difficulty fine, the end boss was by far the toughest thing I have fought, and it actually wiped my party the first time I met it (I hit level 18 just before the encounter, and I have done almost all the story missions). But I don't make any claims of being great at the game.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Oasx

[Lobotechx]

Personally I beat the game on classic and I found the difficulty fine, the end boss was by far the toughest thing I have fought, and it actually wiped my party the first time I met it (I hit level 18 just before the encounter, and I have done almost all the story missions). But I don't make any claims of being great at the game.

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Lobotechx